Excuses Excuses

[Hellion]

:devil

Well they say that the Alaskin Pipeline had to be shut down,yeah right,IMO they will make any excuse to raise the price of gas.

Time to investigate this lie.Hmm.

anyone here have any clues on this s#@t?!!I know Labor Day weekend is getting close.

[jadnifer]

I heard this same thing. That whole thing about the pipeline is a bunch of crap too because if we were importing our gas anyway, what difference does it make that our pipeline is down? Its just an excuse to raise gas prices. I wouldnt be surprised if the prices got to be up to 4 bucks a gallon by the end of the summer. I heard that in california its already 7. what is it coming to guys?

[The_Dark]

Ugh.... OK.. time to pull out my experiance in the Pipe Line Engineering field...

and I'm not going to be nice...

Dont be so fucking reactionary and ignorant of the topic. Read a bit.. find out everything you can about whats going on before you come up with some wild fantasy with no basis in reality.

People ignoring ageing pipelines is the exact reason that 250 children were killed in a California school system when a 1/4 mile piece of pipe line that despereatly needed corrosion maintinence exploded. It vaporized a small section of the town it passed through. It killed everyone in the school that was close to it.

I worked in this field for 4 years. Some of my best friends still work in it. You people want your gas and you don't really give a fuck where it comes from as long as you can go anywhere you want. You ignore just how much work and money it takes for you to drive to CC on Saturday night. You want your fucking plastic dildo and your plastic playstation... but never stop to think about where plastic comes from. Gasoline is not the only thing made from Oil.

If they don't fix this.. people Die. You understand that? Dead.. no longer living. Crude oil and all the horror that does to the world once it's above ground will be spilling all over the Alskan Tundra and burning. It's not about money.. it's about saving lives and the enviroment.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I very briefly heard something on the radio this morning about them talking about building 2 Ethanol refineries....???

Anyone hear about that?...going to look for links....

[Head Wreck]

be glad your gas isnt 80% taxed

[BrassFusion]

Ugh.... OK.. time to pull out my experiance in the Pipe Line Engineering field...

and I'm not going to be nice...

Dont be so fucking stupid.

People ignoring ageing pipelines is the exact reason that 250 children were killed in a California school system when a 1/4 mile piece of pipe line that despereatly needed corrosion maintinence exploded. It vaporized a small section of the town it passed through. It killed everyone in the school that was close to it.

I worked in this field for 4 years. Some of my best friends still work in it. You people want your gas and you don't really give a fuck where it comes from as long as you can go anywhere you want. You ignore just how much work and money it takes for you to drive to CC on Saturday night. You want your fucking plastic dildo and your plastic playstation... but never stop to think about where plastic comes from. Gasoline is not the only thing made from Oil.

If they don't fix this.. people Die. You understand that? Dead.. no longer living. Crude oil and all the horror that does to the world once it's above ground will be spilling all over the Alskan Tundra and burning. It's not about money.. it's about saving lives and the enviroment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may be (very) right, but that's no reason to insult people who have no direct sway on whether our aging pipelines are maintained and the cute schoolchildren live.

[Msterbeau]

This IS about money. The oil companies huge profits are coming at the expense of maintenence and captial investment in their aging facilities. BP failed to spend the money it should have up front for proper inspection equipment which resulted in not detecting the corrosion until it was too late. Not only that, it took government intervention to make them do it:

"BP discovered corrosion in the transit lines only after the Department of Transportation ordered their inspection following a 270,000 gallon spill in March at another section of the field."

http://www.kiplingerforecasts.com/apnews/X...?storyid=219868

[The_Dark]

Just so you know... this is another subject that you just don't know about. Oil companys are not ALLOWED to inspect thier own equipment. It's against the law.

Marc, what you are proposing, is for them to have built a corrosion proof system in advance. Can't happen. The best, most expensive pipelines in the world rust.

Pipeline maintinece involves 3rd party inspectors. As an example.. the last pipeline I was involved with was 220miles long. It took 3 years at 3million a year to do the inspection. Thats just the inspection. It took another year to compile the data collected during the inspection at a cost of about 1million. Then recomentdations are filed with the Government and the Pipeline company. If corrosion is detected, then a further inspection is doen to see just how bad it really is. Depending on the "damage" plans are made to either replace the corroded pipeline (which shuts it down until the repair is done) or put in some form of protection to keep it going for a few more years. Anodes are used most of the time to keep the pipeline from rusting but many things can fuck with them... that rusty car you see parked on the pipeline right of way... it's cuasing the electrons in the pipeline to move to it as it rusts.. this causes the pipeline to thin and rust.... Anodes are expensive... and take a long time to install (but the pipeline stays open) They may choose to reseal the pipeline (which also keeps it running) but that is even more expensive and takes a long time...

[The_Dark]

I didn't insult anyone. I said stop being so fuckign stupid. That implys that I don't think they are stupid, just acting like it in this case.

I also forgot that the god damn hippies who want cheap gas for thier VW Bugs throw major fits everytime the oil companys try to do the corrosion maintinece thats needed. I had to walk across far too many hippy go rounds to get to a job site when I worked this field.

[phee]

I didn't insult anyone.  I said stop being so fuckign stupid. That implys that I don't think they are stupid, just acting like it in this case.

I also forgot that the god damn hippies who want cheap gas for thier VW Bugs  throw major fits everytime the oil companys try to do the corrosion maintinece thats needed. I had to walk across far too many hippy go rounds to get to a job site when I worked this field.

Telling someone they are Being fucking stupid, and telling someone they are fucking stupid (with out the word being) is kind of splitting hairs... IMO

[The_Dark]

I know many very smart people who act dumb as a rock on a regular basis. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between pointing out when someone is acting stupid and telling them they are stupid.

I edited the post. I put it as nice as I could. It still means the exact same thing.

[Msterbeau]

Mark... You put a lot of words in my mouth that I didn't say. I'm well aware that metal rusts and only a truly insane person would think you could build a pipline that didn't corrode. What I was suggesting is that companies seem to regularly shortchange important processes like this in the interest of short term profits or worse, executive greed. And don't tell me it doesn't happen. It happens with such frequency it's scary. They call it running a profitable business, but that's bullshit. IKEA runs a profitable business yet manages to do it in a very eco-friendly, employee friendly way.

You're correct about the legalities and third-party inspectors: I didn't know and hadn't read anything pertaining to that. I'm not surprised that that's the case.. But why does the article I linked to seem to indicate that BP had responsibility over the method of inspection? Also.. It also states that the last inspection was in 1992... 14 years ago?? Seems like a long time for such an important piece of equipment.

[The_Dark]

Form my experiance in the field.. 14 years is not that long. They are sopposed to be inspected every 5 years but there are not enough people that can do the work to get it done. Pipelines that are not near people are put on the back burner in preferance to pipelines that are.

[torn asunder]

Form my experiance in the field.. 14 years is not that long. They are sopposed to be inspected every 5 years but there are not enough people that can do the work to get it done. Pipelines that are not near people are put on the back burner in preferance to pipelines that are.

sounds to me like they're not doing it because it's not cost-effective. i doubt that there aren't enough people in this field, somewhere in the world, that they couldn't have it done. it also seems to me that paying more to have them inspected would still be cheaper than having to deal with an environmental clean up, which brings me back to the thought that they're out for profits in the here-and-now...

[The_Dark]

As I have said... I am speaking from working within the field. There are not enough companys to inspect every pipleline on schedual. It's very hard, very physically demanding work. On top of the physical side of it.. there is the data processing afterwards.

Lets go at this from another way....

To inspect a pipe first you have to find it.. thats the easy part... it's only buried.. and you know almost exactly where...

It's 200+ miles long.... ok.. time to inspect it.... you can't actually see it. It's buried. So, hook up a power source to it. This power source puts a low voltage threw the pipeline.. but not high enough to cause it to explode... so it only goes a little way.. 5 or 6 miles at most. Now you walk along it with a back pack full of water and walking sticks. Each walking stick injects a small amount of water intot he ground... it then measures how much resistance it between the contact points... you ahve to take a reading every 2-3 feet for the whole 200+ miles. As you go, you hav to note things that might interfere with the reading... old cars, houses... streams and other water ways... everything has to be precisly placed via GPS and maped out. I 200mile pipeline takes about 1.5 years to get readings from. Once the whole things is read... you send that data to the Data processing unit... who crunch a shit laod of numbers into a report the amounts to a guesse to home much corrsion is going on. Then you figre out how thick the pipe was when it was installed... crunch some more numbers... and this tells you where it's getting weak. Is it weak enough to warrent a repair? That takes further readings.. further number crunching.... eventually you give a report to whom ever owns that pipeline and go on to the next one.

[torn asunder]

As I have said... I am speaking from working within the field. There are not enough companys to inspect every pipleline on schedual. It's very hard, very physically demanding work. On top of the physical side of it.. there is the data processing afterwards.

Lets go at this from another way....

To inspect a pipe first you have to find it.. thats the easy part... it's only buried.. and you know almost exactly where...

It's 200+ miles long.... ok.. time to inspect it.... you can't actually see it. It's buried. So, hook up a power source to it. This power source puts a low voltage threw the pipeline.. but not high enough to cause it to explode... so it only goes a little way.. 5 or 6 miles at most. Now you walk along it with a back pack full of water and walking sticks. Each walking stick injects a small amount of water intot he ground... it then measures how much resistance it between the contact points... you ahve to take a reading every 2-3 feet for the whole 200+ miles. As you go, you hav to note things that might interfere with the reading... old cars, houses... streams and other water ways... everything has to be precisly placed via GPS and maped out. I 200mile pipeline takes about 1.5 years to get readings from. Once the whole things is read... you send that data to the Data processing unit... who crunch a shit laod of numbers into a report the amounts to a guesse to home much corrsion is going on. Then you figre out how thick the pipe was when it was installed... crunch some more numbers... and this tells you where it's getting weak. Is it weak enough to warrent a repair? That takes further readings.. further number crunching.... eventually you give a report to whom ever owns that pipeline and go on to the next one.

i don't question the fact that it's very difficult, tedious work, but it doesn't seem to be something that enough money couldn't take care of. if there's not enough well-trained people, why not train people within your own company, for example? and i was unaware that they were all below ground - the only pictures i've ever seen (years ago) appeared to be above ground.

[The_Dark]

Above ground is very rare. The Alaskan pipeline is both, depending on what part your looking at. Most are buried though. It's a safety thing... it's harder to hit it with something that can put a whoile in it if it's below ground.

BTW.. I have a Natural Gaspipeline that goes through my yard.

[The_Dark]

On a side note... You dont even have to have that much training to do the inspection... and it pays rather well.. $15-$20 an hour. You ahve to be able to walk with a 150lb backpack for miles a dayt in any weather condition.. through any terain. Most people quit after one outing.

[torn asunder]

On a side note... You dont even have to have that much training to do the inspection... and it pays rather well.. $15-$20 an hour. You ahve to be able to walk with a 150lb backpack for miles a dayt in any weather condition.. through any terain. Most people quit after one outing.

aahhhhh... i see...

[Vater Araignee]

My turn.

The Pline that I worked on as a welder gave me a good idea into some of the cost.

First I had to certify to weld. Woopty doo you say. Let me restate that, I had to recertify to weld every Monday even if I was not going to weld that week at all. If I failed I got to try again tuesday. I only failed my first time.

Care to guess the cost?

A full days wage at $25.00 ph.

The materials that where going to be turned into scrap for testing.

The wage of an inspector, the wage of an x-ray tech the wage of the rest of the supporting cast.

You know what lets forget that stuff and look at a full weeks pay.

$1,000.00

Now between SocSec Tax and Medicare Tax I was paying about about $60.00 and since the law states that a company has to mach me Its now costing about $1,060.00 pw.

I was paying about $200 a week in Fed Income Tax, hey isn't it the law that they meet me by 50%? $1,160.00 pw.

I was paying 10% of My medical insurance so that means that they where paying $108.00. Now we are at $1,268.00 pw.

I cant even take a stab at what there weekly insurance cost was for me but my current company is paying about $50.00 so if we factor in the general danger level and the inflation they where probably paying about $100.00 back then. $1,368.00 pw.

Pension They quoted us 100 dollars a month. $1,393.00 pw. I so wish I vested but I couldn't cut it for more than a 9 months let alone 5 years.

Do I have to keep going? Do I have to factor in that they had to feed us twice a day? At times pay us 12 hours a day and lodge us. How's about the fact that there where twenty welders and every week five of us where on hazardous duty so our pay doubled.

You wanna look at materiel cost?

Equipment cost?

Maintenance cost?

Materiel cost?

Transportation of multi ton pipe? I wont mention trucking but what about some of it had to be heli-lifted?

Yes the gas companies are to blame but you want to know the real crooks?

Blame the bitch in charge of Michigan, yes I know that the entire country is feeling the crunch, but she raised the road maintenance tax. Care to guess how you pay that tax? By buying gas ,diesel fuel, motor oil, hell any oil based liquid for your car. Oh I almost forgot heating oil, yes it is still used here.

But our roads are still shity! Blame Unions. How often have you seen an orange vested basted taking a nap or spinning a stop/slow sign and getting paid $16.00 ph to do it when it is a minimum wage job at best?

Maybe you should blame those fucking Demopublicans and Republicrats on Capital Hill for refusing to impost a "Unfair Profiteering Tax". That's right both sides refuse to entertain the idea.

Blame yourselves for voting them in.

But most of all Blame Yourselves for "Copious Power Consumption".

Take a bus Woodward saturday bus schedule

do some basic auto maintenance. Oil and filter change, air filter, spark plugs, fuel filter! When was the last time you checked your tire pressure? How much unnecessary crap is in your trunk? Stop driving when you can walk you happy ass two blocks to get a Mountain Dew.

I'm going to stop now because I'm loosing sleep posting this and watching rule breakers bitching at rule breakers about breaking the rules.

POTS!!!

KETTLES!!!

UNCLE RUCKUS!!!

[phee]

Yay Vater

[kellygrrrrrl]

Vater...... :laughing

Question....

Is it true that the variations in gas prices between from city to city and from county to county are based on Property tax as well?

IE: Up North gas is less expensive then here gas cause here Property taxes are higher?

I heard this....

This is why the gas station down the 2 miles down into the next city is 5 cents cheaper?

[Vater Araignee]

Vater...... :laughing

Question....

Is it true that the variations in gas prices between from city to city and from county to county are based on Property tax as well?

IE: Up North gas is less expensive then here gas cause here Property taxes are higher?

I heard this....

This is why the gas station down the 2 miles down into the next city is 5 cents cheaper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of sort of yes and no.

Basically it works like this "higher average property tax = larger the average income of the owner = higher average cost of living in the area"

Branded gas stations get told what they are going to charge by the corporation who's brand they hold + state tax.

A county can impose a road tax on gas but they will forfeit any state moneys for county and local road construction and repair. Basically nobody would be stupid enough to forfeit that kind of cash for a nickel.

Now you may stumble on a station that is lower then the area average and this is for one or two reasons. Either it isolated "Out of the way" or "The corporation is trying to reduce suspicion of gouging" or both.

My solution for gouging is as follows.

Every one stop purchasing Shell until they drop their price 25¢ cheaper then every other company. You will note I said "25¢ cheaper" not 25¢. As Shell is forced to lower prices The others will follow suit to prevent you from purchasing Shell. Once gas no longer becomes a good stock investment the corporations will be forced to take smaller profits. And just think about how many filthy stinking rich basterds share holders that are yelling at the gas corporations to make them more money that you will end up bankrupting.

And remember that repairs are not a reason to raise gas prices nor do they.