Gaf The Horse With Tears

again with the "gay bashing". Stop kicking that horse... it died the first time. It's not what I meant, it's not what I implied. I didn;t even hint at it. "Huge chunk" my ass. Two responses to her.. thats not a huge chunk.. I have spent more time trying to get you back on topic and to stop attacking me because I dare disagree with one of your friends. and you can stop putting words in my mouth... NOT ONCE did I say our system was better than Canada's system. NOT ONCE. I said it was flawed and not everyone was happy with it. You can't actually debate me on what I am saying.. so you put words in my mouth and spin what I do say to mean something differnent than intended.

The thing is... Hillary won the primary. She is the one that should have gone on to the general election... I would have voted for Hillary over McCain. But no, The elites in the Democratic party had picked Obama... in 2004 to be the next President... and so they used thier "super delagates" to override who the people voted for. I am still shocked she took a job in his cabinet. Just wanted to point out.. the Tea party's roots start in 2008 when Bush signed the TARP bill. many conservatives were against that bailout... and the one later signed by Obama.

So, your are going to stick with trying to discredit me as a person rather than refute anything I say... fine.

more spin. I never used the words"gay bashing". never hinted at it. She discounted 11% of the population as small and not large enough to cater too... I pointed out that there are other groups that are even smaller that we do listen to and make allowences for. You and her spin it into me calling her a gay basher. Try defeating my logic and facts rather than trying to discount me. I have posted links and charts... try directly addressing some of that. Let me state my postition again a bit more clearly.... then you can try to refute it rather than discredit me... THe US Healthcare overhaul will bankrupt our country without actually giving better healthcare to the people... as example I give you the Canadian and British Healthcare systems... that are bankrupting thier countries without giving a level of care thats much better than what the US has. At least 11% of Canadians want another choice when it comes to healthcare. I don;t think they should be ignored anymore than I think gays should be ignored when it comes to thier Rights to marry.

People ignoring and spinning what I say is not loosing an arguement. By the rules of debate I learned, I am winning. I am actually responding directly to the topic at hand and providing data to back up what I say. I actually brought it down to grade school... hence the School House Rock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfMG66LtVU

I get what you are all saying completly. Canada's health care system is better than the US's. Pointing out any flaws or places where it needs improvement is not allowed. almost forgot... The USA sucks and does nothing right. Obama is better than Jesus. Is that about it?

She dismissed that group. She acknowledges their existence, but what they want seems, from what she has said, as inconsequential. I used gay's because it happens to e a smaller group of people who voices we listen to. Her 'It's only 11% of the population' blow off is offensive to those that beleive minority voices count. I ignored your question becuase it must be aimed at someone else. I never said I liked the US Health Care system. I said the Canadian and British models are flawed. Severly. I will note, that Canada has a bigger debt problem than the US. One of the dirty secrets that isn't so secret that no one is talking about. Am I the only one who see's the Western economys crashing as people riot in the streets because they dont want to give up a red cent of their entitlements? How long do you really think you can rob Peter to pay Paul?

Didn't skip that a bit. "Focusing on finding more efficient ways to deliver health care without putting any more tax dollars into the system." That is an admission that inefficient health care is being provided. If, they skip out on redundent tests, specialists and referal after referal to name a few problems with every medical system... the patient will get "cured"/treated quickly and timely... therefore costing less. The rising cost will thus be offset. Being more efficient means cutting waste and redundency. "efficient ways to deliver health care". BTW: 11% is a small percent of the population. It's still 1% higher than the gay population accounts for. Are you ready to take thier voice away too?

I love how much attention she gets from the left... the fear is thick in the air.

You didn't seem to mention that it has been the Obama administration, not Bush's, who has been busted twice now altering scientific reports for political reasons.

Nice bit of spin there... You seem to have left out key words... like... "more efficient ways to deliver health care" so, the health care provided is not done efficiently... "put more of public tax dollars into existing system" so, it's under funded... "pay for thier own" so, they want another option...

To no one in particular... So, what would the cap be on earnings if you ran the world? I mean, when do you say to someone "Your sacrifices and hard work were all fine and dandy, but we are taking the spoils of your labor and giving it to someone else." Spare me moral relativism and explain how thats right? Does it matter to you that they give more, freely and of thier own choice, to the poor and needy than they ever pay in taxes? Who makes the biggest donations to the food pantrys? Do you realize how much money those snotty rich socialite wives raise for charitys? Does it matter that in some small towns, the largest employer in the area, that is just barely scraping buy is going to get hit with these taxes? How many of the working poor loosing thier jobs will open your eyes? You are looking at a really big picture and missing all the details. All the minutiae of your life is blurring them out.

and as pointed out before... Tax breaks increase Federal Revenue. Just keep this in mind... the tax breaks for those over $250,000 income... will add about $32billion to the deficit. The tax breaks below that number.... will add $200-250billion to the deficit. But thats really not even true. They wont add to the deficit. They take our money away from the Treasury Department and leave it in the hands of the people. When people have money, they spend it. When people spend money, the economy gets better. Congress needs to stop spending so much so the Treasury department can make it's payments. It's what we little people have to do everyday. It they dont, we go the way of Ireland and Greece.

Hiding the True Cost CBO ups the cost of Healthcare reform

Perhaps you should read more. I am and was whole hardely against the various bail outs... Bush's and Obama's. Perhaps you should stop using the words "free healthcare" if you want people to believe you don't say it. I would be all for a national healtcare system that is going to work. What we have is a bunch of bloated handouts to special interests that is causing health care costs to rise.

Here is a link to Bush's first warning of what was coming... NY Times another good read with a bit more detail Washington Post

Does not exist. Anywhere. Someone always has to pay. You (leftist sheep who support "free healthcare") can't seem to grasp that. You all seem to be perfectly happy letting hard working people pay your salary (unemployment checks for up to 4 years) and your "free" healthcare. All the while bitching that the people you are forcing to pay your way in life dont want to do it.

Yes, publicaly funded abortions are still in Obamacare. So are the death panels... not by that name, but they are there none the less. "Cost/Benefit Boards"... http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2010/04/02/krugman-admits-rationing-death-panels-from-obamacare/ http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/health-care/4065-obamacare-abortion-funding-has-begun

Wow. Have you read the foaming at the mouth anti-Bush threads from a few years ago? BTW, the is a difference between not posting links to sources and you not bothing to click the links.

Your insults are not helping your point. Also, as I got what phee was saying, you are as usual, wrong.

Yep. Thanks... sometimes my hands type whatever they feel like.

We were talking about wether or not the Bush tax cuts created more revenue. Thank you for bringing up Spending. It's what the Tea Party wants cut. It's the real problem. So, now that we are talking about the root of the problem we are all in... we have, as a people, a daunting task. We have to convince Congress to renew the Tax cuts, as they are creating more revenue than higher tax rates would and then cut spending so we can pay down our debt. I can't thank you enough for making my point for me.

Our currrent debt crisis was caused by the Housing crisis. The Housing crisus was NOT caused by Deregulation. It was caused by regulations forcing Fanny and Freddie to give out loans to people who could not pay them back. Bush started warning about the coming Housing crisus in 2003. He wanted to REGULATE Fanny and Freddie along with the whole Loaning industry. All his efforts were blocked by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd...

It is... because it doesn;t exactly line up with the Canadian governments official numbers.