the eternal

What is wrong with you guys? Let me quote Republicans here. There is " NO EXCUSE for bigotry, threats or acts of vandalism and I condemn such things in the strongest possible terms," said Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana, the House's third-ranked Republican. "It is unacceptable in America," said Sen. John McCain. "This is not the right way to respond," added Rep. Joseph Pitts, R-Pa., a leading anti-abortion lawmaker. House GOP leader John Boehner said, "violence and threats are unacceptable." OK, I never saw ANYONE on this board justify the carazy, and YES, I said carazy left-wing anarchists acting up at World Bank summits during the Bush era. ---Throwing bricks through windows ---Making Death threats ---Telling a pro-life Democrat "I hope you fucking bleed and fucking get cancer and die" ---Having the propane line leading to a grill of a Congressman's family member cut Politicians should EXPECT THIS???????? REALLY? You're not surprised this is happening? Let me tell you something------ After 7 years in office, when Bush's approval was about half of Obama's When people were furious over Bush's handling over, well, just about everything, you didn't hear shit like this all the time. And I GUARANTEE YOU, if you did, you wouldn't have anyone on DGN applauding and justifying this. And FOX News would be condemning it non-stop, day and night. I NEVER would consider, condone, or g-d forbid, DEFEND brainless thuggery. Which is what this is. This is not a revolution. This is a minority within a minority. A small faction (lawless thugs) within a small faction (tea baggers) of the Republican party, who decide to take matters into their own hands, break laws, and create anarchy. And apparently, you're all A-ok with it. Vigilantism is NEVER acceptable or justifiable. I remember when I was younger and I was a member of a lefty political group, which I later left in disgust, they had an interesting response to a spate of violence in Israel. "We don't condone the Palestinians actions when they bomb Israeli locations (including school buses) but we UNDERSTAND it" Well I DON'T understand it. I didn't understand it back then, and I don't understand it now. I don't understand the bombing of abortion clinics. I don't understand Timothy McVeigh detonating the federal building in OK City. And I don't understand frustration of a health care bill leading to people cutting propane lines, throwing bricks through Senators'/Congresspeoples' offices, and threatening to kill our elected officials. These are NOT acceptable actions in a civilized society. The fact that ANY of you would justify this shit, or even understand it, should be absolutely appaling to any patriotic law-abiding citizen of this country. Edited because I wanted to applaud COTN, another decent law-abiding citizen, who although he and I don't share a single political viewpoint, was the only right-leaning poster who concurred that politicians should not expect to recieve death threats and vandalism for doing their job (ie voting their conscience on bills brought before them)

Due to recent events, bean has expressed interest in not going, but then I did a roundhouse kick to her butt and she farted all the wasabi and baked beans I've been feeing her for manfast training. I am passing on the mutahfucking explosive torch to my woMAN. I will wear the belt and then I will take it off and place it around her. And then she will thrash it into the ground and you will now that she is the new Manfast champion. And we will partake in peelingchrome's meat to celebrate

TWB--you're awesome! Thank you for finding a source that so clearly lays everything out. And proving COTN right. It DOES allow for abortion--- if the woman was raped by her friend, raped by her father, or could die if she didn't get an abortion. I think those are pretty damn good exceptions. I'd justify them. And look at all the extensions on what income level people are eligible to get coverage at. From the outset, it appears that it's not so much going to lower our health premiums, but rather expand who qualifies for coverage in the first place. One thing the GOP leaders undoubtedly hate is that it is largely funded by a small tax on investment income on those earning OVER $250K/yr! Investment income! That's not even their job. It's the SECOND paycheck they get from the dividends of investing all that extra money that they don't know what to do with. Boohoo! Jenny can't get a new Porsche for her super sweet 16 at the Gross Pointe Yacht Club, so that way Roger, the guy who cleans the galley can get affordable health care for him an his family. Cry me a river. Here's the only thing that I'm not on board with. "It would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years. That is an updated CBO estimate. Their first preliminary estimate said it would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over ten years. Would reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion dollars in the second ten years." I do believe that if there's a clause that says abortion isn't federally funded that abortion isn't federally funded. What I'm not sure of is how the CBO came to the estimate, and more importantly, if that will actually happen once the program gets going. In other words, the actual provisions will be there, but since we're working with private insurers and people's health care costs can go up and down, how can anyone really say they know exactly how much it's going to cost, or save, at this point? STILL, a health care plan, that has as its goal, self-sufficiency and even debt reduction, is pretty impressive. Iraq and Afghanistan have gone over $1 trillion and I can't say for absolute certainty all the benefits we reaped there. It certainly hasn't been economic and I guarantee we're never gonna see a dime back of that money.

They did sign on. It wouldn't have passed otherwise. The ones that didn't are nervous because they are either Freshman or they are conservative Democrats in traditionally Rep. areas, and were worried that the results wouldn't be evident enough in time. I would love to think the Dems planned it and I know it's a tough sell, but frankly I don't think they're that smart. Besides, it would have been much more advantageous for the bill to pass a year ago so we could have a year of saying "Look at how good this has been" I'm sorry but I think the whole funding abortions thing is a scare tactic used by the GOP who are quite frankly desperate to get this killed. If this bill gets killed, the midterms'll be brutal for the democrats and Obama doesn't get re-elected. The Repubs are so hungry to stop this bill they can taste its demise. ABORTION-- You have Catholic hospitals across the country and vigilantly pro-life Congressmen like Bart Stupak of MI signing on, which I strongly doubt they'd do if it funded abortions. Now I know the talk show hosts are throwing out everything right now. I just can't put on an equal plain---a spokesperson for the party that has everything to gain with killing this bill vs. a Congressman who believes eternal salvation rests on preventing abortions who then went ahead and voted for it. If necessary I can find the documentation to prove this out. You have to do what you have to do. No one should judge you based on that. I resized it a bit because I quoted so many people here. That's a very good question. First of all, it's a service, not a product. It is a service that has saved the lives of those who had it, and ensured an early grave for those who were forced to go without And as the bosses in a republic, we elect our leaders to serve the greater good. It is their job to run this country so we can do our job to make this country great. And if we don't like the job they've done, we can vote them out. But back to your question, where is the Constitution? The constitution is in the EXACT same place it was in 1935, against protests that we were going to become a fascist state, when Social Security was passed. And I am PROUD to have SS tax taken out of my check, because I know that because of that social safety net provision, my Grandma is able to eat. And the Constitution is in the EXACT same place as it was in 1956, when it was expanded in order to create the Social Security disability program. AND due to that, a few cents of my tax money go to the people on disability who depend on it to live. And the Constitution is in the EXACT same place as it was in 1965, when against the vigilant protest of the leader of the modern conservative movement, a man who deserves everyone's respect, if not for policy, than for how he shaped national discourse, Ronald Reagan, who warned this great nation was going to become a communist state when Medicare and Medicaid was passed. And I am proud to have taxes taken out of my check, because I know that although we share nothing in common with Marx and Engels or Chairman Mao, that because of that bill, those too young to speak up and those too old to protest will have good sound government health insurance. That's right! Medicare, the health coverage EVERY politician of EVERY political stripe cries about saving is a GOVERNMENT RUN-ENTITY!!! Every American is worth giving a chance. And I believe in the philosophy of Tikun Olam, repairing the world And we can't make the world better if people are starving because they are disabled and can't work and have no income, or sick and can't get better, because they can't afford to both eat and buy their medicine. Or dying because they were denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition and now can't afford their life-saving surgery. AND I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THIS WAY! The VAST majority of Americans feel as I do, that we ARE our brother's keeper. That it IS the government's privilege and responsibility to help those in the most need. That it is NOT socialism to keep people from starving or dying. And I know this, because throughout history, despite cries of socialism or fascism or totalitarianism, that Americans of all stripes, all races, all religions, all political persuasions overwhelmingly supported.----- Social Security Disability Medicare Medicaid BUT THAT WAS A DIFFERENT TIME There wasn't the same level of fear-mongering that there is today. There wasn't the same level of partisanship that there is today. You had blue blood moderate Republicans and conservative Dixiecrats and all in between. And discourse was welcomed not vilified. And there is so much slander and misinformation, it's hard to wade through the muck and lies to know what is true and what this bill will mean in the end. AND EVEN I HAVE MY DOUBTS And I don't know if this will go far enough. And I don't know if this will save us money on our premiums. And I don't know exactly how many millions of people will end up with coverage in the end BUT I can say with certainty, that IF it does pass, there WILL be people that will get the treatment they need, the medicine they need, the preventive care that just months prior would not be able to. And if an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure, IMAGINE how many millions of dollars WE, THE TAXPAYERS will save in emergency room visits and our fellow man will save in pain, excruciating pain that they endured until an emergency room visit WE PAY FOR was required. And to me, that alone makes this bill worthwhile He who saves a single life, saves the entire world. ~Talmud PS. I love you

That's my take as well. It's supposed to go into effect in November right before the mid-term elections. It's convenient but not on purpose. Obama wanted this passed over a year ago. Apparently with re-convening sessions and whatnot the soonest this can now go into effect is November.

I've noticed in the tone here that a lot of people that are already extremely skeptical of Obama and this plan are determined that it won't work or cover what it says it will. Of course you can easily accuse me of being too Pollyanna-ish about the whole thing too, but I don't think we should assume the worst of every component of this bill According to what I've read, no. If you are currently on Medicaid/Medicare/VA you will stay in your current plan. It is an OPTION to go under your dad's plan, not a requirement. (In fact no one's require to get health care until 2014 and the 2.5% fine--with a $695 cap for no coverage WILL NOT go into effect until 2016 EVEN THEN---Six years from now Exemptions will be granted for financial hardship, ie those for whom the lowest-cost insurance option exceeds 8 percent of an individual's income and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009, the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples) People we need to understand THIS IS NOT GOVT RUN INSURANCE. This is not Communist Russia here. This is the government giving subsidies and regulation to an industry that has denied and overcharged on health coverage. It is STILL industry-run. The plans are the SAME The companies are still the SAME. This is just supposed to make them a little more open to higher risk patients and transparent What's hilarious about the Limbaugh's and Becks of the world is that this is by and large a Republican plan. Over the past 40 years, liberals and moderates like Kennedy and Dingell have been pushing for single payer govt run health plans, and Republicans like Richard Nixon and Lincoln Chaffee have made counter-proposals. Obama cobbled together many of these plans, combined it with ideas of his own, Dem Max Baucus, and even current GOP ideas for what we have today. I worry that you've been poisoned by the liberal activist machine in Madison, WI. I had the same when I lived in a college town. I'm a fervent Zionist and I thought everyone was a Palestinian freedom fighter. I don't know anyone that hasn't commented on his performance. He's been tauting this plan forever, playing kissy games with Maine republicans when, in the end, the GOP and Dems are more polarized and ideologically partisan than anytime in history. I'm pleased to see over the past couple weeks Obama finally growing a pair and acting like a leader. (Bush may have stunk, but no one can argue he was a leader. When he wanted something done, he got it done) My list is not full of pie in the sky claims. They're provisions fleshed out in detail in the bill. Once the 5000 constitutional protests go away they may actually go into law. As for Jobs, he passed a bill last year. He was still a pussy last year, so he didn't do it along the Keynesian model, which he should've. The GOP would've hated him no matter what, so why not go all the way? That was Bush's philosophy, and in retrospect, I'm starting to respect it. There is more work to be done, and it remains to be seen if the bill will get reconciled with the Senate with all those provisions intact. But I sure hope so --------- Trust me I can see your side. We have completely opposite philosophies here. You both view this as wasteful spending that doesn't target what it needs to. And I may be wrong and this may not work. But the 800 lb elephant in the room is that the GOP leadership didn't give a g-d damn about health care reform until Obama put it on the table, and didn't take a second to work on it despite having all the branches under their control for several years Now it's the Dems turn. From everything I've seen, it makes sense For all our sakes, and our health I sure hope I'm right. (edited so I could hit spellcheck)

IS IT PERFECT? HELL NO! IS IT COMPREHENSIVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE? YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT! BUT It is designed to allow 32 million Americans to get coverage over the next four years, and unlike under Bush THIS is truly a plan where no child is left behind. A sneek peek at what will go into effect in November if it passes unchanged •This year, children with pre-existing conditions can no longer be denied health insurance coverage. Once the new health insurance exchanges begin in the coming years, pre-existing condition discrimination will become a thing of the past for everyone. •This year, health care plans will allow young people to remain on their parents' insurance policy up until their 26th birthday. •This year, insurance companies will be banned from dropping people from coverage when they get sick, and they will be banned from implementing lifetime caps on coverage. This year, restrictive annual limits on coverage will be banned for certain plans. •This year, adults who are uninsured because of pre-existing conditions will have access to insurance through a temporary subsidized high-risk pool. •In the next fiscal year, the bill increases funding for community health centers, so they can treat nearly double the number of patients over the next five years. •This year, it'll also establish an independent commission to advise on how best to build the health care workforce and increase the number of nurses, doctors and other professionals to meet our country's needs. Going forward, it will provide $1.5 billion in funding to support the next generation of doctors, nurses and other primary care practitioners -- on top of a $500 million investment from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Health insurance reform will also curb some of the worst insurance industry practices and strengthen consumer protections: •This year, this bill creates a new, independent appeals process that ensures consumers in new private plans have access to an effective process to appeal decisions made by their insurer. •This year, discrimination based on salary will be outlawed. New group health plans will be prohibited from establishing any eligibility rules for health care coverage that discriminate in favor of higher-wage employees. (They carve out great benefits for the top people and screw the rest) •Beginning this fiscal year, this bill provides funding to states to help establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance in order to help individuals in the process of filing complaints or appeals against insurance companies. •Starting January 1, 2011, insurers in the individual and small group market will be required to spend 80 percent of their premium dollars on medical services. Insurers in the large group market will be required to spend 85 percent of their premium dollars on medical services. Any insurers who don't meet those thresholds will be required to provide rebates to their policyholders. •Starting in 2011, this bill helps states require insurance companies to submit justification for requested premium increases. Any company with excessive or unjustified premium increases may not be able to participate in the new health insurance exchanges. Reform immediately begins to lower health care costs for American families and small businesses: •This year, small businesses that choose to offer coverage will begin to receive tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums to help make employee coverage more affordable. (Small businesses with less than 50 employees are NOT required to insure their workers) •This year, new private plans will be required to provide free preventive care: no co-payments and no deductibles for preventive services. And beginning January 1, 2011, Medicare will do the same. •This year, this bill will provide help for early retirees by creating a temporary re-insurance program to help offset the costs of expensive premiums for employers and retirees age 55-64. •This year, this bill starts to close the Medicare Part D 'donut hole' by providing a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the gap in prescription drug coverage. And beginning in 2011, the bill institutes a 50% discount on prescription drugs in the 'donut hole.'

If you think the bulge in Obama's pocket was big last year, you should take a look at his big health care package. As the GOP tries harder and harder to probe deeper and deeper into the hearts and minds of Americans, they have ejaculated that Americans are being boned completely dry of their cash. But I think when people look at this new package with up to 32 million uninsured people getting all the care they desire, they are going to be deeply satisfied.

Rock-and-roll

Drained

As of the time of my posting, I have already prayed for her and will continue to do so until you let us know she's returned. I don't know how many of you stil remmeber/love Candy/Odims, but G-d willing, after a year deployment they'll be coming back home soon. If there's room, pray for their safe return as well.

I think about this every time I open my mouth Note to self -- Go to Morbid Side's after Tygerlili goes to sleep to partake in Chicken and Cheez Whiz parties. ADDED BONUS--- My mouth won't be open, it will be filled with Cheez Whiz so I don't have anything to say to make me look stupid

Agreed. I just want to curl up in a ball. I'm exhausted.

It's late and I'm tired. Simply put, I completely agree with Chernobyl here. There is no more correlation with Gothic tendencies and liberalism as there is with conservatism. To say that you can't be both a Republican and a Goth is as ridiculous as when people said (during George W's time in office), that "It takes a Democrat to lick Bush." That offended me. Licking Bush should not have been a partisan issue. It's the kind of cause that should make EVERY American want to roll up their sleeves and dive right into.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I feel glad Pomba's on the board.

You're making my head hurt.

That one's my favorite too. This guy's hilarious

Callipygian

I just farted. THERE! I made a better tune than Brokencyde's in 17 seconds.

Now you're making ME blush. I enjoyed your company too. And you're quite a good hugger BUT not to disappoint you, I just can't say it made me feel absolutely amazing. (Unless you were talking about your boyfriend showing up later. Nahhh) That prize would go to LOS softly caressing my buttocks after Slogo nearly ripped a chunk of them off I feel like I found out last night that Slogo's right hand is not entirely human. Let me use a rebus to elucidate--- + + = Slogo's

(I started this because this is the thread I thought I was posting in for the past couple days, when apparently I was posting in the one word to describe the person above you. Dammit, if there isn't a thread to describe ourselves already,I will make it so!) Almighty

Because I'm a fucking moron. I never go into this thread. And I saw the words "The one word game" without looking at the caveat that it describes the person above you. So I thought it was the one word to describe how I feel So yesterday I felt stupid for post whoring instead of napping before going out. In other news, I didn't think Axelle_Anxiety was unfocused the other day. I would tell you why I felt unfocused, but I have too many things going on in my head right now.

Yeah like with me and bean. We were thinking of heading over soon. That's it. I'm protesting until I know you're there And I brought some friends who are ALSO angry and will ALSO not-be-there with me

Happy belated birthday!