Destroit

There are states that have a ban on smoking in your own home or vehicle, even with the windows rolled up. Michigan is well on its way to that. So...justifications on this? Anyone? I should hope not because there isn't any .

If it's a valid point, then why not? If it is a valid example, it should be included in a conversation. Why should a conversation including Hitler be censored? I'm having trouble understanding this. This was taken out of context. If there was appropriate accommodations as I had explained, non-smokers would never be around a cigarette again. Therefore, only smokers would be exposed. This point is invalid in context to what I had said. No citizens were asked if they would like this law passed to the best of my knowledge. It's a Granholm law as far as I know. And by "Granholm Law" I mean a law passed in Michigan based on the governor's personal agenda and who is lining her pockets the most. I disagree about revenge. If someone fucks you over you should fuck them over back tenfold. If you don't then that person will never learn that they're an asshole and continue to fuck you over again and again. Like the bitch that broke into my house and was supposedly a friend of ours but the entire thing turned out to be a setup. My revenge towards her is a prison sentence. I mean...people that are horrible people that fuck over other people intentionally...we're just supposed to sit there and take it without fighting back or seeking justice against them? I can't stand by that, it does not make sense to me. But with your last two sentences, I reconsider my position about blowing smoke at non-smokers. Since there would be no way to tell who is one of the selfish non-smokers and who is a non-smoker that simply doesn't care one way or another aside from explicitly asking, you're right, it wouldn't be fair of me. I guess I can give them the evil eye...?

...Little Caesars?

Ah, gotcha. Good to know you let yourself slide a bit, it's healthy as odd as it sounds.

That's how it was at the last place I worked. The WHOLE office feel and setup was like walking into 1996. The computers, the fact that most agents still had pagers and not cell phones, everything was by fax, we still had dial-up, people's mannerisms, furniture...everything. Incluuuding the fact that we could just smoke wherever. I thought it was quite odd for an office setting but didn't care because I smoked at the time.

Well technically they have until May 1st I believe.

YES! Girls are especially nuts about this. They even (I think it was in MSNBC) did a study showing that a major reason men tend to keep weight off and have better weight maintenance is because when they "screw up" or indulge they tend to have a very "meh...I'm fucking human. So what? No biggie" kind of attitude. Women are raised to be self-haters and will turn these fuck-ups in on themselves. This is BAD because women who tend to be self-haters (as I've observed and as the article put it) also tend to relieve this emotionally by having a "FUCK IT! I'm apparently not good enough!" type attitude and give up. I'm sure this doesn't just pertain to women, I'm sure if a man had a "FUCK IT! I'm apparently not good enough!" attitude they would fall off the wagon also. It's just most of them are forgiving of themselves and therefore, do not. You NEED to eat pizza, Snickers, fried chicken, chili cheese fries, creme cheese, and fondue. If you do not, you will become fat in the long run YOU ARE HUMAN. TREAT YOURSELF. CUTTING YOURSELF OFF AND PUNISHING YOURSELF FOR BEING A HOMOSAPIEN IS UNREALISTIC!!! YOU ARE NOT MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now go out and get some fucking ice cream this weekend! You'll be better off in the long run.

For you, since you're already pretty fit, I would suggest weight training instead of losing more weight. When I was 130 I tried to get down to 125 because I still thought my body looked flabby (and it did). What I DIDN'T put together was the reason my body looked flabby was because I didn't have any muscle to push my skin out in all the right places. I looked very sunken in and sullen. So instead of trying to feverishly work off 10-15 lbs that I shouldn't have been trying to lose (as I was already getting all skeletor-like) I should have been trying to put on muscle to fill out my skin. Ya get?

You mean there's female 14 year olds who don't? Meh, I suppose there is the exception; I have a cousin that didn't start her period until she was 16. Most girls get boobs when they're 11-13 from what I've seen. I was 10 and almost a B cup, for the record .

I wasn't trying to correlate smoking with kid fondling, it was an example. I was trying to use it as a reason to explain that just because someone deems something wrong doesn't mean it is (and vice versa of course) Here's another example. Yeah, it's kind of extreme because it was the only thing I could think of. Hitler killed a massive amount of people (not even just in the war itself, I'm talking strictly concentration camps). There is no doubt in my mind HE felt as though he was NOT wrong in doing such as he did not consider the people he was killing as actual "people". There's no doubt in my mind that the people who were murdered in his genocide rampage felt wrong (and in my opinion, for what it's worth, obviously they were severely wronged). There are probably members of the KKK and/or Aryan Brotherhood who do not believe Hitler was wrong. "Wronged" is usually a matter of opinion. How I base "wrong" is...does it directly harm an individual, their property, or their livelihood? If the answer is "no" I do not consider it wrong. I do not consider people damaging themselves as wrong either, for the record. I do not believe there should be a such thing as a victimless crime, it's stupid, but that's an entirely different topic. Why do I believe smokers were wronged? Because, as you've stated, it IS possible to accommodate smokers. Smokers, if accommodated properly, will not be exposing non-smokers to smoke. In this case, smoking would be almost a "victimless crime" of sorts and the consumer would only be damaging their own health. So at this point in time I believe it was wrong morally and ethically for legislature to lock out an entire population of the country who could potentially be harming nobody but themselves if given the opportunity. We were wronged because we were not given that voice and that opportunity. That's why I believe our freedom was collectively violated. Hey man, I didn't use to but I don't care about making most non-smokers angry now. They didn't care about making me angry. Sure, eye for an eye leaves everyone blind...but it also leaves me incredibly satisfied emotionally. Sorry, but I'm human, I thoroughly enjoy revenge.

That's pretty much what I wanted to try and correlate. I wanted proof there was a direct correlation to e-cig use and tonsillitis. Tonsillitis could be caused by a lot of things, ANY kind of bacterial build-up in your throat can cause it. The doctor could have been biased as many physicians are. He may strongly dislike these e-cigs or any smoking and for all I know got two patients who had both used an e-cig before and then got tonsillitis due to it and then, in his own head, pieced together that e-cig use MUST cause tonsillitis. That's why I asked for a link.

Okay, fine. You don't consider it being wronged. There's also people out there who don't think molesting children is wrong...so I should just back down and agree that they're right just because they don't FEEL that it's immoral? Nope. Just because YOU don't feel people are being wronged doesn't mean that they aren't. I feel pretty damn wronged in the matter. I've also never gotten a contact buzz being in a room with green stuff being consumed. But there's a different reason for that altogether that I'm not going to disclose . And by the sounds of your last paragraph, it seems we're actually on the same side for this. As I said before, I don't WANT people to be angry at me because I'm smoking. I want proper accommodations or at least an enthusiastic effort toward such.

Right, but you have to keep in mind that it was that way FOREVER. I'm not saying it was right but back 30 years ago I would be willing to bet there were as many, probably more, smokers than there were non-smokers. We haven't even been aware fully until probably the 80's-90's just how bad smoking is. I do believe that they still are unclear on the effects of second-hand smoke. I'm NOT saying it was justified that non-smokers had to put up with it for so long. You missed the part where I said I was wanting smokers and non-smokers to come to a solution that satisfies both parties or at least TRY. I'm glad that it's being fixed. I feel uncomfortable that non-smokers are uncomfortable with my actions. I just think legislation shouldn't have shut-out smokers completely on this issue and tried to come to more of a satisfactory solution. And you can't even smoke 100 ft from a building? Like...really? That's ridiculously fucking excessive AND biased. It's almost like non-smokers are TRYING to be assholes about it and are just trying to pour some lemon juice in an already open wound. If you're 100 ft from a building outside...you're outside. Crazy. In response to this: "If they did, they would restrict their smoking to private places or be a lot more courteous than most of them are." I have never been given this opportunity at a club. At bars in the summer I tend to go outside and smoke being I LOVE BEING DRUNK OUTSIDE. Irrelevant to the convo, I know, but I love being outdoors intoxicated . In the winter? I should have to sit outside humiliated like a dog having to go outside and shit? I have to be uncomfortable? Like I said, I (and many smokers) would love the opportunity to restrict our smoking to private places, sadly, many businesses, such as CC, do not provide us this opportunity. For instance, a plausible solution would be to have some establishments as designated smoking establishments and some as completely non-smoking. That won't FULLY keep non-smokers out of smoking clubs (not ALL non-smokers are as vehemently against cigarettes as you and do not mind being in the smoke. I know some who actually love the smell.) It also makes the smokers seem as if they got more of a say in the matter. If they choose to go to a non-smoking club, they can't bitch about it being non-smoking as they were already aware.

Decided to go in the woods by Universal Mall (called White Hill by the locals) with Pestilence, my boyfriend at the time and a friend of ours. Didn't realize it was trespassing. My boyfriend at the time had a major drinking problem and asked me if I could keep three beers in my backpack, not realizing what a mistake that was (I was 19 I think). We went back there started a fire (another stupid idea) and I kept hearing voices. They thought I was crazy (everyone's fatal mistake) and ignored me when I brought it up. I then heard movement and said "hey guys, I think someone's back here". Still got ignored. Then from 30 feet away I hear "DON'T RUN!" That was the cops. Pestilence didn't listen and dashed, actually got AWAY. I wasn't so lucky. They pinned me with trespassing, open fire, and MIP. I only got pinned with the MIP. The judge said I was stupid for signing a plea bargain because he was planning to drop all charges, but since I was dumb and didn't realize that the court appointed attorneys are AGAINST you (trying to get the most money for the state and don't care about your well-being) he insisted on pinning me with it even though HE knew the judge would have dropped all charges. Got 6 months probation and completed it. Since it was my first offense it was expunged under the Youth Trainees Act. Second time I got arrested a few Dead-Liners knew about. It was my first time at Dead-Line and I CANNOT HANDLE FIFTY CENT DRINKS. I left really tore up, Pestilence was driving but he was sober enough to drive. We got downtown and Pestilence told me that he thought he left his glasses at the bar, so he wanted MY drunk ass to direct him back there. Since it was my first time going to The Works, I had no idea wtf I was doing. We drove around in circles for an hour trying to find it and we did. Just as we found it we passed the front of it by about a quarter mile and I told him to turn around and go back. Just as I said that we ran out of gas in front of a light pole that was already leaning because there's a lot of those in the ghetto. We called Boshy, who was irate, but agreed to bring us a can of gas and told us to stay put. Mind you, it was about 3am and she had to work at 6am. Boshy is a saint. Anyhow, in the course of sitting in the gasless car, keys in Pestilence's pocket, myself in the passenger seat two officers pull up. They begin questioning us very unprofessionally and telling us that we smashed into the pole because we were drunk. We told them they were wrong and that the front end damage was from a previous accident because it was. They asked who was driving and we said "nobody" because we weren't. We were clearly parked. They questioned me by myself and since I was off-my-face they convinced me (LIED TO ME) that if I didn't say I was driving that they were going to take Pestilence away and convict him with all these charges. I took one for the team and said I was driving out of duress. I spent the rest of the night until they would release me sitting in a holding cell with a girl from SW Detroit in for attempted murder at 6 Mile and Woodward wearing black make-up, a fedora hat, spin-striped zoot-suit type deal, with a bright yellow undershirt. DID NOT WANT. Luckily the judge and my lawyer were able to determine that it was not a legitimate arrest and that they officers wrongly coerced a confession out of me when I was under duress and not of sound mind. I was found not guilty.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep. And God said: 'Let there be light' And there was light. And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness he called night. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold... it was good. And God created man. And man created machine, And machine, Machine created music. And machine saw everything it had made and said: 'Behold'

Thank you for being one of the only people I know wise enough to realize this BULLSHIT ban is NOT about being smoke-free or healthy. It's about control and money. Period. And all these non-smokers are going to say "it's not my problem" or "I'm glad" until the govt finds some bullshit reason to ban what THEY like. I love how almost all Americans seem to think it's okay for the government to enforce liberties and freedoms restrictions on other groups of people but the SECOND it happens to THEM...THAT is when they get mad. If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community. My viewpoint is that I want both non-smokers and smokers to be happy. Non-smokers don't give two fucks about what smokers want. Selfish selfish selfish! Absolutely appalling :. I was willing to work with you, ya know, why won't non-smokers give us the same respect? But no, now hatred is created because non-smokers didn't give a fuck or think about ANYONE but themselves...and now hostile segregation is created. I say hostile because I plan to be hostile about it. So "hostile" may not include all smokers (or casual smokers or people who support smokers) but it covers me (and I don't mean PHYSICAL hostility, I try to avoid getting arrested at all costs).

I agree with the kids' thing. It's a bit hypocritical for them to ban all flavored cigarettes, including adult-oriented flavors like cloves, and turn around and let these be sold. And point taken about the harmfulness and the fact that we don't KNOW yet. Odds are? People are probably blowing it out of proportion. But you never know, it is too new to completely deem it safe without further testing. As it stands right now there have been no adverse effects caused by e-cigs.

Throbbing Gristle - Hot on the Heels of Love

Actually the FDA has published that the ONLY reason they aren't sure about them is because there has not been enough time to do scientific testing. ACS said they are most likely safe and have actually said that you are better off smoking e-cigs than actual cigarettes since actual cigarettes are responsible for 90% of lung cancer cases yearly. That doesn't even include emphysema or heart problems. E-cigs are so new and have only really boomed in the past year and so therefore there has not been enough time to determine the safety. They have been touted as "most likely" safe at this point and there are no ingredients in the products that are significant enough to cause cancer. It's pure nicotene and flavor. Most people misread or misinterpret all of this into thinking "Well it's not FDA approved and so therefore it's not safe!" Really it will most likely be 100% FDA approved in the next few years but is not at this point because there simply has not been enough time to run analysis on the product. http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/13/ecigarettes.smoking/ All e-cigs come with a shut-off mechanism so that you CAN'T overdose yourself on nicotene, even if you wanted to. If you take more than 6 puffs in a minute it shuts down. There has not been a case of ANYONE overdosing on this product or even coming remotely close. I'm glad I switched over because I forgot what it was like being able to breathe and smell things. Both of these human attributes, I've rediscovered, are awesome and worth it . I still support smokers and their right to smoke. I'm not one of those assholes where "Just because I recovered from ___________ (cigarettes, weed, alcohol, whatever in the blank) I'm going to be a pompous dick and say people who are actually responsible/aware of the reprocussions should be punished also just because I can't handle myself." I can't stand when people force that sort of bias on others. Just because you had a problem with a vice doesn't mean it should be banned everywhere, it means you were weak about it . Those last two sentences are just IMO obviously. I do still smoke the occasional cigarette but it's always with a beer. When I'm drunk I'm a masochist and love the feeling of my throat and lungs catching on fire.

No I wouldn't expect a Free Mason to lie about something like that. I don't trust doctors . I was going into nursing originally but dropped out of it because the medical field is so corrupt and is bent on keeping people sick and temporarily curing symptoms instead of actually solving the problem. I'd be more likely to trust most lawyers in this day and age!

I for one do not like Eevee. Bitch is hotter than I am, damnit .

Well, is this actually published anywhere? How does your friend know for sure that e-cigs caused this? I'm just asking for proof on this 'cause we've got one of those e-cigs and both sets of tonsils. Well, actually, I'm assuming that Pestilence still has his tonsils; I've never actually asked.

Nor should they . I don't even smoke anymore except on rare occasion but I support being able to smoke in public businesses. I'm for smoking in bars; I am a little mixed on smoking in restaurants. And trust me, I do feel sympathies for non-smokers who do not want to be exposed to smoke. Problem is that you guys obviously don't have any fairness or empathy toward smokers. Respect should be a two-way street. Since non-smokers blatantly act as though their rights/privileges are more important than other American citizens, I don't respect any laws coming out of their selfishness. There should be a law where appropriate accommodations are made for BOTH parties, not just one or the other. That's why I vowed from now on if I'm forced to stand outside of a bar to smoke, you best bet I'm blowing it at people walking in and out. They wanted to play rudely and in a disrespectful way, I can play that way too.

What I want to know is why the fuck does all of these types of incidents seemingly happen in NYC? You hardly ever hear this stuff coming out of other metropolitan areas, it's almost ALWAYS New York. I haven't even heard this kind of stuff out of cities with proportionately more crime such as our hometown of Detroit, DC, St. Louis. It's just and odd observation.