I'm so goth

[Joey Deadcat]

I'd be willing to bet that goths everywhere could stand to learn a few things from other people.

I don't see how that website is definitive, however, or 'more' goth than Detroiters. 

You might want to reassess the holier-than-thou attitude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Detroit "goth" scene is nothing more than EBM kids(ravers in black really hence the term "gravers" you may hear around),emos in fishnets, black/death metal kids, and Marylin Manson/NIN fans all fooling themselves into believing they are "goths". And from what I understand, Detroit is just one of many cities to have a clueless "goth" scene. I'm sure you could ask 99% of City Clubbers about Antiworld,1919,Sex Gang Children, or March Violets and you're going to get blank stares. Hell, do any of the Detroit "goths" even remember Detroit's own Gargoyle Sox? Are there any who know the spook rock sounds of 3-D Invisibles(another legendary Detroit outfit)?

Back in the days of Down Where We Belong @ The Labyrinth you would see where the real goths(deathrockers) would gather. DJs Adam Cadaver and The Brain knew their stuff. You could hear actual goth/deathrock being played down there while upstairs at CC the kids danced in happy oblivion to the industrial/ebm/techno music being played up there. Very indicative of the City Club scene.

As for deathrock.com - they actually know what's what(hell, on this board very little is mentioned in regards to actual goth/deathrock;Detroit Industrial or Detroit EBM would be a more apt name). If the kids don't wanna learn from them then they can always look up the term deathrock online or read about the Drop Dead Festivals.

Simply, look into the real deal before you try to get away with calling yourself "goth". If you're into techno,ebm,industrial that's fine but it ain't goth and neither are a lot of you folks.

[BrassFusion]

The Detroit "goth" scene is nothing more than EBM kids(ravers in black really hence the term "gravers" you may hear around),emos in fishnets, black/death metal kids, and Marylin Manson/NIN fans all fooling themselves into believing they are "goths". And from what I understand, Detroit is just one of many cities to have a clueless "goth" scene. I'm sure you could ask 99% of City Clubbers about Antiworld,1919,Sex Gang Children, or March Violets and you're going to get blank stares. Hell, do any of the Detroit "goths" even remember Detroit's own Gargoyle Sox? Are there any who know the spook rock sounds of 3-D Invisibles(another legendary Detroit outfit)?

Back in the days of Down Where We Belong @ The Labyrinth you would see where the real goths(deathrockers) would gather. DJs Adam Cadaver and The Brain knew their stuff. You could hear actual goth/deathrock being played down there while upstairs at CC the kids danced in happy oblivion to the industrial/ebm/techno music being played up there. Very indicative of the City Club scene.

As for deathrock.com - they actually know what's what(hell, on this board very little is mentioned in regards to actual goth/deathrock;Detroit Industrial or Detroit EBM would be a more apt name). If the kids don't wanna learn from them then they can always look up the term deathrock online or read about the Drop Dead Festivals.

Simply, look into the real deal before you try to get away with calling yourself "goth". If you're into techno,ebm,industrial that's fine but it ain't goth and neither are a lot of you folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kiss my black ass, you pretentious elitist fuck. Then get a life and a job.

[odims_sphere]

I'm so goth that I look up obscure goth refrences on the internet then tell people they are not goth if they don't know who the hell I'm talking about.

I'm so goth that I pass judgement on total strangers.

I'm so goth that I take myself way to seriously, then claim others are not goth if they have fun once in a while.

I'm so goth that I wish I was dead, and others wish the same.

[Blackmail]

The Detroit "goth" scene is nothing more than EBM kids(ravers in black really hence the term "gravers" you may hear around),emos in fishnets, black/death metal kids, and Marylin Manson/NIN fans all fooling themselves into believing they are "goths". And from what I understand, Detroit is just one of many cities to have a clueless "goth" scene. I'm sure you could ask 99% of City Clubbers about Antiworld,1919,Sex Gang Children, or March Violets and you're going to get blank stares. Hell, do any of the Detroit "goths" even remember Detroit's own Gargoyle Sox? Are there any who know the spook rock sounds of 3-D Invisibles(another legendary Detroit outfit)?

Back in the days of Down Where We Belong @ The Labyrinth you would see where the real goths(deathrockers) would gather. DJs Adam Cadaver and The Brain knew their stuff. You could hear actual goth/deathrock being played down there while upstairs at CC the kids danced in happy oblivion to the industrial/ebm/techno music being played up there. Very indicative of the City Club scene.

As for deathrock.com - they actually know what's what(hell, on this board very little is mentioned in regards to actual goth/deathrock;Detroit Industrial or Detroit EBM would be a more apt name). If the kids don't wanna learn from them then they can always look up the term deathrock online or read about the Drop Dead Festivals.

Simply, look into the real deal before you try to get away with calling yourself "goth". If you're into techno,ebm,industrial that's fine but it ain't goth and neither are a lot of you folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am well familair with the March Violets and Sex Gang Children and 45 Grave and Projekt records and early 4AD (old wolfgang press for example). But it's like, that music didn't really age well. That's why goth clubs don't play it anymore.

Hell even Clan of Xymox is incoporating futurepop into their goth blend these days.

But overall I agree with you. I'm not a graver or a goth (I'm too old to care) but I'm well aware that Assemblage23 has nothing in common whatsoever with Bauhaus or Joy Division or even Love Spirals Downward.

Unfortunately (for you, I don't really care) is that people call it all goth now. What can you do really?

By the way, did you like the march violets when they got a new female singer? I would imagine you like their earlier, darker stuff. How about the Damned? Virgin Prunes?

[Blackmail]

I'm so goth that I pass judgement on total strangers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually that is a goth trait. As much as people like to say they are non-judgemental look at how much people on DGN make fun of EMO and "tourists" at City Club and "jocks".

[Head Wreck]

i'm so goth i'm the furthest away from detroit than anyone except valley of misery

[Shade Everdark]

The Detroit "goth" scene is nothing more than EBM kids(ravers in black really hence the term "gravers" you may hear around),emos in fishnets, black/death metal kids, and Marylin Manson/NIN fans all fooling themselves into believing they are "goths". And from what I understand, Detroit is just one of many cities to have a clueless "goth" scene. I'm sure you could ask 99% of City Clubbers about Antiworld,1919,Sex Gang Children, or March Violets and you're going to get blank stares. Hell, do any of the Detroit "goths" even remember Detroit's own Gargoyle Sox? Are there any who know the spook rock sounds of 3-D Invisibles(another legendary Detroit outfit)?

Back in the days of Down Where We Belong @ The Labyrinth you would see where the real goths(deathrockers) would gather. DJs Adam Cadaver and The Brain knew their stuff. You could hear actual goth/deathrock being played down there while upstairs at CC the kids danced in happy oblivion to the industrial/ebm/techno music being played up there. Very indicative of the City Club scene.

As for deathrock.com - they actually know what's what(hell, on this board very little is mentioned in regards to actual goth/deathrock;Detroit Industrial or Detroit EBM would be a more apt name). If the kids don't wanna learn from them then they can always look up the term deathrock online or read about the Drop Dead Festivals.

Simply, look into the real deal before you try to get away with calling yourself "goth". If you're into techno,ebm,industrial that's fine but it ain't goth and neither are a lot of you folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting.

Interesting that you expect everything to stay exactly the same and never evolve. Things change; it's the way of the world and it always has been. To expect any subculture to remain completely static is, quite frankly, rather stupid. You may not like it, and that's fine, but to think you're better than everyone around you (and to preempt your comments about how you may not have said it, I don't care, because you certainly implied as much) for remaining static is self-righteous behavior at its finest, and I suspect, liable to end you up rather alone.

I also have to wonder, if you think we've strayed so far afield from 'true goth', why you are spewing your invective here. Do you think you'll change any minds? Do you think what you've written will send people scrambling to listen to all those bands? Or do you think anyone will suddenly stop short and say, "Wow. I really can't call myself goth anymore."? (How many people here actually call themselves goth anyway?)

It's just a suggestion, but it's seems you'd be better served finding something better to do with your time, because I get the feeling you're wasting it, with this.

[Joey Deadcat]

I am well familair with the March Violets and Sex Gang Children and 45 Grave and Projekt records and early 4AD (old wolfgang press for example).    But it's like, that music didn't really age well.  That's why goth clubs don't play it anymore.

Hell even Clan of Xymox is incoporating futurepop into their goth blend these days.

But overall I agree with you.  I'm not a graver or a goth (I'm too old to care) but I'm well aware that Assemblage23 has nothing in common whatsoever with Bauhaus or Joy Division or even Love Spirals Downward.

Unfortunately (for you, I don't really care) is that people call it all goth now.  What can you do really?

By the way, did you like the march violets when they got a new female singer?  I would imagine you like their earlier, darker stuff.      How about the Damned?    Virgin Prunes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like Cleo's vocals as well as Rosie's in the March Violets. In a sense, the stuff with Cleo makes me think of a goth B-52s. Virgin Prunes, one of the old-school greats. Always loved The Damned - punk and goth eras. You might dig Dave Vanian's other band, Phantom Chords. Great stuff there. More of a dark rockabilly/vocal outfit that really gives his vocals a chance to shine.

I know not everyone's goth or whatever here and they just dig ebm and industrial - that's fine. It's just that there are younger folks and metal kids who are calling themselves as such without even having a clue.

[BrassFusion]

I like Cleo's vocals as well as Rosie's in the March Violets. In a sense, the stuff with Cleo makes me think of a goth B-52s. Virgin Prunes, one of the old-school greats. Always loved The Damned - punk and goth eras. You might dig Dave Vanian's other band, Phantom Chords. Great stuff there. More of a dark rockabilly/vocal outfit that really gives his vocals a chance to shine.

I know not everyone's goth or whatever here and they just dig ebm and industrial - that's fine. It's just that there are younger folks and metal kids who are calling themselves as such without even having a clue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are you to determine what qualifies as goth? Also, who are you to assume that no one knows shit except you? I saw something on another thread about you giving someone a "shout out" before you were banned. Is that your goal? And if so, why?

[Joey Deadcat]

Who are you to determine what qualifies as goth? Also, who are you to assume that no one knows shit except you? I saw something on another thread about you giving someone a "shout out" before you were banned. Is that your goal? And if so, why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scary Guy knows his stuff.

[BrassFusion]

Scary Guy knows his stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and according to him, I qualify as "goth."

And yet, I've heard of almost none of the bands you brag about listening to. I guess that makes me a poser.

[Scary Guy]

Depends on your definition of goth. My definition of goth is "anything having to do or anyone with an affinity towards the darker side of life". A good example of that is if you can appreciate the beauty in wilted dead flowers you can be a goth.

Since everything has a dark side to it, everything is at least in part goth.

However I'm so goth I know what goth really is!

Ready?

GOTH IS DEAD!

~end

[BrassFusion]

My head a splode.

[DJ Nocker]

This is a goth board, the people go to goth clubs, like goth culture ect. almost everyone on this site is "goth" weather they admit it or not. Its not a bad thing, its just a label.

[Blackmail]

Depends on your definition of goth.  My definition of goth is "anything having to do or anyone with an affinity towards the darker side of life".  A good example of that is if you can appreciate the beauty in wilted dead flowers you can be a goth.

Since everything has a dark side to it, everything is at least in part goth.

However I'm so goth I know what goth really is!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe that is Joey Deadcat's problem with the word 'goth' as it is defined by many people today. Alot of the futurepop stuff they play at the goth clubs really isn't all that dark. You really can't deny that the music they play at the clubs now is anything like what a goth club would have played in the 1980's. It's not that the scene has evolved because the dance music now is almost completely unrelated to "goth" music of the past. I don't think he is saying one thing is better than the other, I think he is just saying the music today is not goth. He is pretty much right. However, other than the kids at city club, no one calls that stuff goth. The artist don't. The people who go out and buy all the CD's don't.

I don't really have a problem with what he is saying because he's technicly right. Goth is not a state of mind, goth is not enjoying the dark things in life. Goth is a movement that grew out of the punk movement, started in the Uk by bands such as Siouxsie and the Banshees. Joey Deadcat is hardly the only one to have this viewpoint, not only has this been debated here on DGN, most people around in the 1980's have a disdain for what they see as the mislabeling of "goth".

From wikipedia:

"Gothic rock was originally clearly differentiated from industrial and heavy metal by older participants in the alternative scene, but newcomers and media misconceptions blurred the boundaries in the nineties as gothic rock became significantly less popular in the US and UK. Thus while Industrial metal-influenced or heavy metal bands such as Marilyn Manson, Jack Off Jill, Type O Negative, Lacuna Coil, Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth and Slipknot were often labeled as "goth" by the media, this categorization was strongly resisted by longstanding goths. Even more confusion was added with the rise of gothic metal, with such bands consciously using gothic imagery from the dark ages in their own music and appearance and started even following fashion trends indistinguishable from older goth ones. Arguments about which music is and is not goth became an ever more significant part of how the subculture tried to define itself.

The other significant development of the nineties was the popularity of electronic dance bands such as VNV Nation and Covenant in the goth scene. The rise of what has been called cybergoth music and style, which has much in common with techno/synthpop, caused bitter divisions between its fans and those firmly attached to the analog and/or guitar based sound of gothic rock. Bands with a darkwave sound or those such as The Crüxshadows, which combine an electronic and gothic rock sound, appeal to both sides to some extent."

[BrassFusion]

To Slaugh:

I guess I kind of agree. It seems that few people on this board seriously refer to themselves as "goth," but it's just a generic sort of label. It doesn't matter. I don't have a problem with being goth or non-goth.

To BM:

He didn't just say that the MUSIC at the clubs is non-goth. He called all of us non-goth in a pejorative manner. If we share metaphorical characteristics with the goth music of old, doesn't that make us "goth," as well, regardless of the music we listen to?

Hell, people like me really didn't have a choice in the matter. My first night at CC was at the end of 2001, and that was my introduction into the whole "goth" scene. I had never heard goth/industrial/techno before then, and until recently, I wasn't aware that there was a huge bullshit distinction between barely discernable genres.

What am I supposed to do, run out and buy a Siouxsie album so I can listen to it, force myself to love it, and conform to some asshole's ideal of what a goth should be?

That doesn't seem like the "goth" thing to do.

[phee]

I'm so goth that I look up obscure goth refrences on the internet then tell people they are not goth if they don't know who the hell I'm talking about.

I'm so goth that I pass judgement on total strangers.

I'm so goth that I take myself way to seriously, then claim others are not goth if they have fun once in a while.

I'm so goth that I wish I was dead, and others wish the same.

OMG .... you are so goth

[Blackmail]

To Slaugh:

I guess I kind of agree. It seems that few people on this board seriously refer to themselves as "goth," but it's just a generic sort of label. It doesn't matter. I don't have a problem with being goth or non-goth.

To BM:

He didn't just say that the MUSIC at the clubs is non-goth. He called all of us non-goth in a pejorative manner. If we share metaphorical characteristics with the goth music of old, doesn't that make us "goth," as well, regardless of the music we listen to?

Hell, people like me really didn't have a choice in the matter. My first night at CC was at the end of 2001, and that was my introduction into the whole "goth" scene. I had never heard goth/industrial/techno before then, and until recently, I wasn't aware that there was a huge bullshit distinction between barely discernable genres.

What am I supposed to do, run out and buy a Siouxsie album so I can listen to it, force myself to love it, and conform to some asshole's ideal of what a goth should be?

That doesn't seem like the "goth" thing to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't care what you do. If you want to call yourself goth, more power to you.

[Msterbeau]

Can I have some goth power too please? I'm feeling a little tired today.

[CandyQuackenbush]

Can I have some goth power too please?  I'm feeling a little tired today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*hands Marc a little shiny ball containing Goth Power.*

[Msterbeau]

*hands Marc a little shiny ball containing Goth Power.*

Thanks babe...

[phee]

That has to be "Midnight Thunder" Gatorade

[Brenda Starrr]

*hands Marc a little shiny ball containing Goth Power.*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a drink idea here.......

Goth Power! Let the power of darkness energize your night!

[CandyQuackenbush]

There's a drink idea here.......

Goth Power! Let the power of darkness energize your night!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would have to be black, and changes the colour of your tounge.

[CandyQuackenbush]

Thanks babe... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not a prob.