Hot topic strategy

[Hermine]

Inspired by the other HT thread, moved into another topic, when i realized that my longwinded tangent was as long as the entire rest of the thread.

They've been having some financial problems lately and they're trying to broaden their appeal by creating a look that is this sort of flavorless, ugly generic blend of hip-hop/hippy/metal/goth/pro-wrestling/raver/etc, which works about as well as one might expect such an effort to work.

Plus, marketing a specific HT look is so not a very good strategy for them.

A Lip Service look, that's good marketing. I'm not that into it myself, as it is not flattering to anyone who's not anorexic and besides I fail to see how paying $100 for a pair of pants is particularly punk, but that is definitely paying off for Lip Service. It's aesthetically pleasing and they have the prestige. But then, Lip Service is an established brand with a good image in the scene.(BTW, have you heard that Lip Service allegedly* produces lower-quality cheaper versions of their clothes to sell at HT?)

LS has a great deal of prestige/cachet that HT just doesn't have. And HT should be realistic about that if they want to make money. HT has name recognition but name recognition should not be mistaken for cachet or prestige.

However, and HT's marketing team might benefit immensely from being realistic about this instead of trying to popularize their "look" using their current strategy, looking like you buy all your clothes at HT is not prestigious in the scene (not saying it's bad, just that it won't sell as well as the previous strategy b/c it's just not sought-after.) It is overwhelmingly unpopular and, with the internet, the gothlings know that. It's an insult in most circles. Therefore, marketing this HT-specific look is not going to pay off.

What they would benefit more from is providing goth staples that are hard to find, like pointy shoes, poet shirts, and vinyl pants, at cheaper prices than, for instance, Kambriel, or evenGallery Serpentine, (or even Gallery Serpentine when you take into account exchange rates, especially considering shipping issues), which shouldn't be so very difficult to do.

What sold HT stuff was the guarantee of finding the basic items for yr. subculture thre. It was the convenience of finding a goth shop in your local mall, instead of having to go to the nearest big-city bleeding-edge shopping district, or spend hours combing mainstream and thrift stores before finding the right item.

When they stopped offering that convenience, when they stopped keeping the basic staples of the various subcultures in stock in a convenient place, they really started to lose their market. They did a lot better when they didn't get ahead of themselves and try to concoct a specific HT look; that shows that they severely misjudged the nature of their appeal.

Nobody wants a specific HT look, especially the one they came up with. You can't combine that many subcultures and appeal to everybody. Because the result doesn't appeal to anybody. And their sales figures are getting hit pretty hard by the mistake.

So that's my take what HT is doing wrong from a purely financial/fashion standpoint. There's more wrong than that, but I have no desire to go into it here. I'd be interested in what an actual marketing type had to say about this, since it's not my specific area of specialization (though anthropologists can be dead useful to marketers). Besides, I'll probably have to take some business arts course and reading a conventional marketing theory approach to something I've looked at from an anthropological perspective might give me a bit of a head start.

*this is something I heard online, so do check and verify it if it's an issue in your buying decisions--I don't buy the stuff anyway, so I haven't checked whether or not it's an Internet rumor. I suppose it'd be easy enough to go to a fancy goth clothing shop (At least one must be available in Detroit) and look at the seam allowances, fabric weight, fabric composition, stitching consistency, etc. on a couple of LS garments, and then go and look at the same garments at HT and compare. Wouldn't be surprised at all though if it turned out to be true.

[Marblez]

.(BTW, have you heard that Lip Service allegedly* produces lower-quality cheaper versions of their clothes to sell at HT?)

Yes, I have heard that multiple times. I don't expect to buy designer quality there anyway so it doesn't bother me. Plus it is a good thing for some of us because LS sizes run larger at HT.

These are the items that I have bought at HT:

2 pairs of shiny vinyl platform boots

1 CD

1 Spike Collar

1 Bondage Collar

1 red rose necklace

1 set of hair sticks

1 Bracelet/Choker set

2 tank tops (caffeine and Betty Page)

1 Sex Pistols Skirt

3 fishnet shirts

and 1 long black "kikwear?" skirt

There are some Happy Bunny and Nightmare before Christmas items that I wish to buy too.

Never have I bought "goth staples that are hard to find, like pointy shoes, poet shirts, and vinyl pants"

I don't see anything wrong. I do not only see it as "goth" store. I see it as they are selling what is the current "hot topic". This would mean that to stay in business, as with any business, it has to keep up with the current alterna-trends. I do not see it as heading in the direction of the Limited or Gap so i see nothing wrond with any metamorphosis that they are going through.

[Marblez]

Yes, I have heard that multiple times.  I don't expect to buy designer quality there anyway so it doesn't bother me.  Plus it is a good thing for some of us because LS sizes run larger at HT.

These are the items that I have bought at HT:

2 pairs of shiny vinyl platform boots

1 CD

1 Spike Collar

1 Bondage Collar

1 red rose necklace

1 set of hair sticks

1 Bracelet/Choker set

2 tank tops (caffeine and Betty Page)

1 Sex Pistols Skirt

3 fishnet shirts

and 1 long black "kikwear?" skirt

There are some Happy Bunny and Nightmare before Christmas items that I wish to buy too.

Never have I bought "goth staples that are hard to find, like pointy shoes, poet shirts, and vinyl pants"

I don't see anything wrong.  I do not only see it as "goth" store.  I see it as they are selling what is the current "hot topic".  This would mean that to stay in business, as with any business, it has to keep up with the current alterna-trends.  I do not see it as heading in the direction of the Limited or Gap so i see nothing wrond with any metamorphosis that they are going through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will also add that I am not even nearly HT Head to toe on any given day.

[Onyx]

Know what else I find? All Hot Topics are not the same. The one here is a joke. I still find things now and then and have snagged some bargains when they had a sale, but the one I went to near Detroit (Westland I think?) had a better selection and I saw several things I wanted. Too bad I was broke at the time *sob*. I'll be back sometime though and want to look through there once again.

[gothicmom]

I have to throw in that I bought a poets shirt at HT. It was MANY years ago when they first started opening up.

I'm not much interested in shoping there any more. The sizes are too small and quality is low. When they started carrying t-shirts with seseme street, teletubbies and other infant icons I really lost interest.

[Brenda Starrr]

One of the resons I quit working for that compant is the low quality of the products. That, and I f*cking hate Teletubbies. Their motto is "Everything About The Music". Clue me in on how a damned Teletubbie relates to this? They have become the posers I never wanted to work for.

[Hermine]

Please excuse the excessive longwindedness. Typing until my eyes bleed and my ass goes numb seems to be the only way to deal with my nicotine withdrawal.

Don't get me wrong, HT used to be damned convenient (still can be, for some things) and really was a leader in the recent explosion of goth retailing, but the quality of their stuff has gone downhill even from where it used to be.

And the style Their designs the last couple of years have really gone downhill. Every time I stop into one or hit their website, I see less and less that I would consider desirable or even wearable (which, BTW, was the problem someone had that started the thread that inspired this one.*)

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue that you should automatically lose your goth card for walking in there (then we should none of us should 'scape the goth card shredder), just speculate on why they are having so much financial trouble.

And personally In my humble, and this was my point with the Lip Service thing**, I don't think that it was a very smart move from a marketing perspective to try and dvelop a distinctive "Hot Topic Look" and that it just wasn't going to work for them as well as it worked for lip service.

Whether or not it's true, what does that rumor mean about the relative prestige of the Lip Service brand and the HT brand?

Marblez (and I'm not trying to say anything against you, I swear, just cite an example of what their customers are looking for and what they're emphatically not looking for) took a moment to mention that she didn't wear head to toe HT.

Most goths do the same when mentioning shopping there and many would object to any implication that they might wear head to toe HT, even those who shop there a reasonably large amount. In fact, it's pretty much an insult in some goth circles to imply that someone does wear head to toe HT.

Thus it's not a good idea to develop a distinctive look for a brand that people really object to being accused of wearing head to toe. I think HT is working with the brand image that they wish they had not the one they actually have, which would be obvious to them if they spent 5 minutes on any forum where goths or members of other subcultures discuss fashion.

HT has a niche, but the head-to-toe look ain't it.

No, in that case, what you want to do is provide a quick and easy source of goth staples (and those of the other subcultures that used to depend on you too) like you used to because most of your customers clearly aren't looking to build a head to toe HT outfit, nor are they looking to appear as if they had done so; they are there for the convenience.

What are they selling (successfully, that is)? I'm going to use Marblez's list again, and add that that all the categories that I've bought there lately are already on it:

Accessories (some goth-specific). Hosiery. Band shirts. Subculture related odds and ends, Maybe a few actual clothing items but not many, and probably mostly the simpler ones. I'll hazard a guess, and correct me if I'm wrong Marblez, but I'm guessing you weren't going out of your way to seek out items that were distinctively HT.

People, I think, come there for convenience. They don't want to do a lot of hunting before they find what they want. I think the different from store to store thing has gone too far too. I think that they'd do better going with convenience and consistency.

*I suddenly have a very strong urge to add "...and the bog down in the valley-o"

**I don't think it's bad, btw, just useful (true or not) for underlining my point about the relative levels of prestige of the two brands and I'm not saying it's okay to buy it there, though I hope folks consider it when deciding how much they are willing to pay for it there; that's what it affects. And the size, which is nice, though a lot of HT clothes still tend to leave me not enough room in the bodacious ta-ta area.

Edited repeatedly because I want a goddamned cigarette, and the only thing keeping me sane is sitting here fucking around with a silly treatise on gothic fashion and marketing, which may well end up benefitting a company about which I have mixed feelings at best, anyway.

[gothicmom]

I usually go into HT while strolling around the mall. My daugter and I will go in and see what they have. If I see something I like and it works for me I'll get it. I have worn HT head to toe, but only because I've been picking things up, skirts shirts, from there for about 7 years. I don't buy much from them any more. Due to all the things listed above.

So what about Torrid? What do you all think about them?

[Soulrev]

I've found that just about everything at HT is low quality.. Even worse recently.. They used to have decent collars now they are practically made from paper.

[Hermine]

Yeah, it's really gone downhill.

I haven't seen much Torrid. I've heard they're a bit more mainstream in what they carry; is that true?

[DisturbedMania]

Bleh!!!!!!!! Torrid, oh the horrors! It's barely decent in my opinion. If you're plus sized catch the clearance for some pants and skirts and then get your good tops or even lingere at any Priscilla's (cause lord knows they have better options and if they don't have it they can order it). Oh, you've got to LOVE Fredericks of hollywood. But, anyone who's seen my clothes already knows lingere = cute t-shirts.

[gothicmom]

It depends on your style and what you are looking for.

Torrid really doesn't carry much club wear. Boo-hoo

But I do like most of their clothing line.

There isn't one around here, the last time I went was over new years weekend.

I noticed that they seemed a bit....mainstream in the career wear.....rather than the corp goth career wear they had when they first opened.

[Nienna]

When Torrid first started up they had alot of the same stuff as HT but in plus sizes. They also had TONS of hot boots with bigger calves, wide width sexy shoes, thigh his and other assorted awesome stuff. I have gotten several items from there through the last 3 years. Lately though (like within the last year) They have gotten very frumpy, mainstream, and "career oriented". I'm disappointed in them for failing so fast. Oh well.. back to the sewing machine!

[Brenda Starrr]

Again, when I worked for the company, I saw shitty quality. This totally applied to Torrid. There was a Torrid in the mall where my HT store was. Very mainstream. Very disappointing.

[The Lady]

Every time I walk into Torrid, I see the pink has multiplied. The first time I went in there, maybe about 10% of their stuff was pink. Now, about a year later, about 70% is pink. It's all about asymmetrical hems and tops, thin fabrics and details that would be more appropriate on eight year olds.

Unfortunately, they are still my best option for shoes. They only carry five or six styles, but they change them often. I have some great pieces from Torrid, but I see maybe one or two things total that I like anytime I go in. To be honest, I prefer to go into HT. At least, they carry some worthy accessories and such. Torrid has failed me.

[mallochai]

There are two Hot Topics here in Anchorage. Why the need is here for two of them, I can't imagine, but such is the case.

The one in the fifth avenue mall carries a large selection of cd's, average HT clothes, shoes, and cartoony merchandise. They are located directly next door to an Eddie Bauer. Overall, from my position at a kiosk for the salon a while back, they drew in a decent day to day crowd of kids with big pants who didn't buy much. While this is the larger of the two stores, it also seems less interesting.

The store in the dimond mall on the other hand, is about the size of my living room (tiny) and carries mostly jewelry, t-shirts, and lingerie. This seems to be the busier of the two stores, through my short and non-scientific analysis. Oh yes, they have more socks, and better employees.

I agree, I've certainly seen the image get wider, and the quality go down. I used to be able to get nice vinyl pants at HT, in addition to fun t-shirts and dresses. Now I'm reduced to belts, watches, pins, and of course socks. Trinkets and accessories. Nothing of substantial worth.

[lullaby1031]

Personally, I have always hated HT - its always been crap to me.. Then after reading that they are owned by The Gap I nearly died laughing since that would explain the "cheapness" of it all. I've always just shopped around Royal Oak, Online shops, or made it myself. Way easier..

[SomeDanGuy]

My two main annoyances these days:

1) It's gone to almost entirely pop-punk stuff. Sum 41 is sooo hardcore

2) So expensive! sheesh.

[Daniel]

The reason HT is having problems is simply because what they are trying to do is no longer the super hip thing. They were a part of that wave of gothy businesses that rode on the immediate popularity of NIN and Manson. They attempted to acclimate with the changing market (keeping up with trends is hard, particulary in subcultures), but to the mall shoppers, their name had already been tagged with a particular image.

Additionally, their business model comes with a high price tag. Setting up shops in malls is deadly expensive. Lipservice, or smaller internet designers like Kambriel, may charge a little more (in the same way that a ma and pa shop charge more than Walmart), but obviously that goes towards quality. And they don't have the huge overhead that HT has, so their relative profit margin is likely to be far greater, though I know many of these designers like Kambriel, and they aren't usually rich, though they subsist on the profits earned. HT has to make at least a certain amount of money to even survive, which is a lot more substantial than other merchants. A custom order store can order materials after payment as received, so inventory is less of a problem.

Also, from my experience, HT has about zero advertising budget. This is not good for them, particulary if they are trying to change the way people view them, and trying to appeal to broader audiences. Hip hop people aren't likely to even go into an HT. Even if HT started to carry items a lot of people interested in quality wanted, that demographic would not likely find out about it if they aren't advertising at all.

[2pink_jellyfish]

Let's go be uber goth and go shopping at Hot Topic right next to the baby gap !

Oooo ! So goth ! Soo hardcore !

Hot topic is for emos. They are crap. Very low quality. Emo clothing & bands. Bleh.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I can find something at kmart for half the price, i couldn't care less were i bought it unless i had some inner need to support a particular store (which might factor into it at times). Hot topic has some of the same stuff, (for less) than other places do sometimes and also has crap compared to some stores. But, I'd not get into the "my store is cooler than your store nenernerener" argument that should have died in 2nd grade. I might be an elitist about some things, but shopping for "gothic stuff" isn't one of them.

[Goth Brooks]

i refuse to shop at hot topic until they bring back my calico jack pirate flag shirts :(

[pomba gira]

I've pretty much given up on Hot Topic... they never had plus sizes at the stores here, but the did carry them on the website. No more- the only "plus" sizes now are singularly lame t-shirts. I was also miffed when they stopped carrying about 90% of their Emily the Strange merch. Unforgiveable, and even the fairly decent selection of anime merch doesn't make up for it.

[mrs~chi~vious]

Every time I walk into Torrid, I see the pink has multiplied. The first time I went in there, maybe about 10% of their stuff was pink. Now, about a year later, about 70% is pink. It's all about asymmetrical hems and tops, thin fabrics and details that would be more appropriate on eight year olds.

Unfortunately, they are still my best option for shoes. They only carry five or six styles, but they change them often. I have some great pieces from Torrid, but I see maybe one or two things total that I like anytime I go in. To be honest, I prefer to go into HT. At least, they carry some worthy accessories and such. Torrid has failed me.

(Sighs)

I feel you Lady...

I remember when Torrid was a dream come true!

Now? It's just...not.

I got some AWESOME pieces from them when they first opened...PVC Boots and Dress, killer T-shirts, awesome handbags, and some cool accessories...but now? I am lucky to find a cool T-shirt! And if I do? Yea...it's $30.00!

So...between HT and Torrid? I will take HT, the store by me is VERY impressive, compared to most of them that I have been in, but as previously mentioned their clothes quality is BEYOND shitty, and it is WHOA! expensive, and they are I am noticing more and more trying to be "everything for everyone" which never works, and it is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to find a shirt that fits me, 2XL? ha for a 12 year old maybe...as long as she doesn't have some major chest action like I do!

Now? I go in there once an awhile...mainly for accessories, and some CD's that I can't get online. The coolest stuff that I have found from there recently has been on the clearance rack.

BTW...what happened to them not carrying ETS gear anymore?

Oh well, I can get Emily stuff at her online store, and sighco.com is a FAV of mine for cool Goth T-shirts now, and imagine this! If you are Plus Sized like I am, they actually have clothes that fit you! And they do not cost you $80.00 either!

All of that being said, I am hard pressed (haha fashion pun!) to find cool clothes, because I am a "thick girl" so, sadly I shop wherever I can find stuff that fits! BUT there is always cool stuff to find, if you know where to look!

Really, I wish that I had went to school for fashion design. I would make the kind of clothes that I would want to wear for us CURVY girls, and I would be FILTHY STINKING RICH! hahaha

If you are plus-sized PM me and I will give you some of the sites that I visit frequently. If you are NOT plus-sized? Yep I can help you as well!

Again, my two cents for what it is worth....

Mrs Chi

P.S. BTW Do not think that I have EVER worn head to toe HT!

[GothicRavenGoddess (3)]

you two do realize that Hot Topic and Torrid are owned by the same company, right?

oh, and every time i see a damn Hot Topic, its next to a Claire's... Heaven and Hell? lmao question is.. which is which?

oh, and as far as Tripp pants.... i can't but the girl style.. apparently you have to be a size 6 or smaller.... so i stick to the mens.. i like the style's better...

SOOOOOO expensive....