Prolife and for the Death Penalty

[phee]

Just thought I would start another debate...

So does this make any sense to you?

[Gauge]

beeing prolife one would want any child to be given the chance and i think beeing for the death penalty would be a kind of we gave you a chance and you fucked up kind of deal.

[Guest Megalicious]

Prolife doesn't .... I mean who is someone else to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body .... cough* bullshit *cough*

But then again I believe there should be a limit on abortion in every state, because it's really horrible to see women use it as a type of birthcontrol. One of the first girls I ever met in MI just sort of bragged about how many she had had and how it was "her right".... IT WAS FUCKING SICK. Here I am sitting at a table with a girl I don't know it all and she going on and on .. and all I can think is how I want to punch her in the face. Not to mention all the girls at my highschool that had admitted to having more then one and they were in FUCKING HIGHSCHOOL. I'm sorry but if you haven't grown up enough to learn your lesson and just keep getting pregnant and keep getting abortions YOU SHOULDNT BE HAVING SEX. It's pretty simple.

as for the Death Penalty .... I myself would never ask for it, even if someone had murdered my child/ or other loved ones, its just not in my nature. I don't think it solves anything, and just creates a circle of victims, pain, regret and hatred. And I don't think that is any kind of soulition. But that doesn't mean that I don't observe and understand where victims family members are coming from when asking for it. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

[Scary Guy]

Whatever works right?

What I want to know though is why so many pro-lifers drive like they're suicidal? I mean seriously most of the stupid shit I see is from people with pro life bumper stickers.

[Steven]

aw man, here we go again.....

I'm technically "pro-life" - and yet I dont beleive in taking away a woman's right to choose.

by stating that I am pro life I simply mean that I wish more people explored other options, difficult as they may be, to abortion if at all possible.

And I hate the terminology that we assign a developing child....fetus, zygote, embryo......all so......clinical. I do beleive that far too many children are put to death as the end result of carelesness, and yes there are exceptions of course.

So do I think that abortion is wrong? In many cases, yes.

Would I vote to outlaw it? No.

incidently I'd kill all them bad guys who commit murder and rape and such, but you all allready know that about me....

so there ya go - pro life, pro-death. Thats me.

[Hellion]

Whatever works right?

What I want to know though is why so many pro-lifers drive like they're suicidal?  I mean seriously most of the stupid shit I see is from people with pro life bumper stickers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:devil That is so fucking true!!! :laughing

[BrassFusion]

Prolife doesn't .... I mean who is someone else to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body .... cough* bullshit *cough*

But then again I believe there should be a limit on abortion in every state, because it's really horrible to see women use it as a type of birthcontrol. One of the first girls I ever met in MI just sort of bragged  about how many she had had and how it was "her right".... IT WAS FUCKING SICK. Here I am sitting at a table with a girl I don't know it all and she going on and on .. and all I can think is how I want to punch her in the face. Not to mention all the girls at my highschool that had admitted to having more then one and they were in FUCKING HIGHSCHOOL. I'm sorry but if you haven't grown up enough to learn your lesson and just keep getting pregnant and keep getting abortions YOU SHOULDNT BE HAVING SEX. It's pretty simple.

as for the Death Penalty .... I myself would never ask for it, even if someone had murdered my child/ or other loved ones, its just not in my nature. I don't think it solves anything, and just creates a circle of victims, pain, regret and hatred. And I don't think that is any kind of soulition.  But that doesn't mean that I don't observe and understand where victims family members are coming from when asking for it. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As long as abortion is legal, it might be difficult to impose a "restriction" on how many you can have before you're cut off. There are assholes of every shape, color, and condition, and it sounds like the chick you met was just one of them. Yeah, some people disgust me, but it's their right to be morons.

Also... do you really think that woman should be OBLIGATED to reproduce? In a truly fair world, would she even have the opportunity?

aw man, here we go again.....

I'm technically "pro-life"  - and yet I dont beleive in taking away a woman's right to choose.

by stating that I am pro life I simply mean that I wish more people explored other options, difficult as they may be, to abortion if at all possible. 

And I hate the terminology that we assign a developing child....fetus, zygote, embryo......all so......clinical.  I do beleive that far too many children are put to death as the end result of carelesness, and yes there are exceptions of course.

So do I think that abortion is wrong?  In many cases, yes.

Would I vote to outlaw it?  No. 

incidently I'd kill all them bad guys who commit murder and rape and such, but you all allready know that about me....

so there ya go - pro life, pro-death.  Thats me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's the same thing as with Meg. People who abort thoughtlessly may disgust many of us, but it's not practical to legislate morality for them.

I can sympathize with people on either side of the capital punishment debate, but I really don't have the same sympathy for the pro-life campaign. At its heart, it is simply a bunch of people who are uncomfortable with progress and secularism, alongside people who can't keep their noses in their own business. The issue of morality regarding abortion can't even compare to the morality of maintaining a woman's right to supervise her own body.

[Steven]

As long as abortion is legal, it might be difficult to impose a "restriction" on how many you can have before you're cut off. There are assholes of every shape, color, and condition, and it sounds like the chick you met was just one of them. Yeah, some people disgust me, but it's their right to be morons.

Also... do you really think that woman should be OBLIGATED to reproduce? In a truly fair world, would she even have the opportunity?

It's the same thing as with Meg. People who abort thoughtlessly may disgust many of us, but it's not practical to legislate morality for them.

I can sympathize with people on either side of the capital punishment debate, but I really don't have the same sympathy for the pro-life campaign.  At its heart, it is simply a bunch of people who are uncomfortable with progress and secularism, alongside people who can't keep their noses in their own business. The issue of morality regarding abortion can't even compare to the morality of maintaining a woman's right to supervise her own body.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wel.....I have to diagree with you on the foundational aspect of the pro-life movement. I have friends in California that are leaders of this movement (they are behinnd the ad campaign of trucks driving aaround with aborted fetus pictures). I can assure you that their goal is not to defeat secularism. Their goal, is to protect unborn life.

and we have a tit for tat here on the morality issue, based on one's own personal values. For you, the right to choose is of the utmost moral importance. For them - their fight is for the unheard voice of the unborn child, that is of the utmost moral importance. I personally, actually lean in their direction.....but we differ in regard to legislation. I beleive in freedom of choice, yet I feel that with that freedom comes tremendous responsibility. I've been ostracized by some fo my christian bretheren for my so called "liberalism".

[Homicidalheathen]

I am usually VERY liberal but.....I agree with this totally. I was on gov. benefits when pregnant and right after I had them. Well I went into the Health Dept one day for nuitrition counciling (I was anhorexic before I get pregnant) and this lady was in there and they asked her how many abortions she had and how many births. 18 abortions. I almost fell on the floor.

I am sure the people there hear this everyday but I was shocked. What the hell is wrong with someone like that????

At some point you cannot just do whatever you want! You know? You can't just leave everything up to Charma.

Prolife doesn't .... I mean who is someone else to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body .... cough* bullshit *cough*

But then again I believe there should be a limit on abortion in every state, because it's really horrible to see women use it as a type of birthcontrol. One of the first girls I ever met in MI just sort of bragged  about how many she had had and how it was "her right".... IT WAS FUCKING SICK. Here I am sitting at a table with a girl I don't know it all and she going on and on .. and all I can think is how I want to punch her in the face. Not to mention all the girls at my highschool that had admitted to having more then one and they were in FUCKING HIGHSCHOOL. I'm sorry but if you haven't grown up enough to learn your lesson and just keep getting pregnant and keep getting abortions YOU SHOULDNT BE HAVING SEX. It's pretty simple.

as for the Death Penalty .... I myself would never ask for it, even if someone had murdered my child/ or other loved ones, its just not in my nature. I don't think it solves anything, and just creates a circle of victims, pain, regret and hatred. And I don't think that is any kind of soulition.  But that doesn't mean that I don't observe and understand where victims family members are coming from when asking for it. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[BrassFusion]

I am usually VERY liberal but.....I agree with this totally.  I was on gov. benefits when pregnant and right after I had them.  Well I went into the Health Dept one day for nuitrition counciling (I was anhorexic before I get pregnant) and this lady was in there and they asked her how many abortions she had and how many births.  18 abortions.  I almost fell on the floor.

I am sure the people there hear this everyday but I was shocked.  What the hell is wrong with someone like that????

At some point you cannot just do whatever you want!  You know?  You can't just leave everything up to Charma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, that sort of situation sucks, but there's no better solution than what we're doing now. In my opinion, people who want abortions should never be denied abortions because they don't WANT to be parents.

And did you all know that up to 80% of pregnancies spontaneously abort? Most of them within the first few days, before the mother even knows she's pregnant. Is that a travesty of wasted life, or just chance in nature?

[kellygrrrrrl]

Touchy Touchy Subjects....

I really hate them. If you have an "opinion" someone will always dissagree. For whatever reason. For good reason I'm sure.

RE: Pro-Life/Abortion

I think it depends on circumstance. I think that one should aim to save a life. Afterall it is a life. Even if it is like 5 cells big, it's still a "Life". And everybody deserves a chance.

But on the other hand, there are some people out there that have no business raising children. Fact.

I think it being used as birth control is absolutely sickening. Yes, if you have had to have MULTIPLE abortions.....come on. Use some protection. Do SOMETHING. If you are a prostitute, or a druggy having sex for more drugs or a combination of both, get on BC....do SOMETHING. Having abortions I think should not be taken lightly. IT'S A LIFE.

Now if you are raped, and get pregnant well, thats a decision that you will have to make. AND ultimately, Live with.

There are millions of sterile couples looking to adopt.

I understand that not all methods of birth control are 100% effective. Double up.

Play it safe. Sex is to procreate. Sex was invented to have children. Thats what happens when you have sex.

You know that. People have been doing this for bilions of years.

If you are not ready for a child, you probably shouldn't be doing it, or at least doing it carelessly...

I believe there should be a choice. Absolutely, but you also have to live with your decisions.

RE: Death Penalty

I believe in an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth law.

If some fucker kills someone, he should die as well.

Not live in a cozy cell fed day and nite getting to play outside when it's nice out stealing my tax dollars away.

If one kills....they have allowed themselves to "go there". They are sick. They have manipulated thier own brain into thinking that this is OK. No, it's not.

If someone steals $100, they should be obligated to pay the person back...community service...for example.

Now the judicial system is what throws a wrench into my thoughts.

Because no matter WHAT we do, nothing is truth. Like with OJ....Nobody REALLY Knows...you know? I never knew what to think. I thought he was guilty, but they let him go. He may be raping and killing woman right now. Had we sent him to jail or killed him and he was not guilty, we would have wrongfully taken HIS life.

So many people are Genius status. They know what to say, they know how to manpulate, they know what not to say and when. Muther fuck'a are SMART.

They could have set someone up, like in Shawshank Redemption. Andrew Dufrain was not guilty but spent YEARS in Prison and escaped....(One of my favorite movies BTW)

I am on the fence on both

[BrassFusion]

I can agree with most of what you said, Kelly, but...

There are millions of sterile couples looking to adopt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There will always be more children in need than couples that are able to give those children homes. It is piss poor planning to bring a child to term and decide to "adopt out" without knowing where it's going. A zygote isn't any more sacred to nature than it is to people who don't know it exists until it's flushed out of the system.

Sorry for the clinical terms, but that's all life is. Life doesn't become sacred until awareness and some degree of intelligence. The mother/newborn child bond, for example: I assure you, the infant has no idea what's going on. What's at play at that point is hormones on the part of the mother. Do any of you remember the moment you first looked into your mother's eyes and felt a permanent bond of love and devotion?

Hell, I'd support infanticide if there weren't more technologically advanced ways to get the job done before it would cause pain to the fetus.

[honeymustard02]

Hell, I'd support infanticide if there weren't more technologically advanced ways to get the job done before it would cause pain to the fetus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's sick, no other words then just sick.

[BrassFusion]

That's sick, no other words then just sick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everybody is sick in some way as considered by everyone else. Infanticide has been around a whole lot longer than you, and yes, it has a practical application in some cultures.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I could come up a ton of reasons as to why adoption MAY not be the best answer...I mean yes, there are millions of homeless kids and Kids currenlty on a waiting list. Most of these kids will probably live less than normal lives.

Piss Poor planning or not, Adoption can be used as a healthy alternative for someone who is not looking to abort the child for whatever reason.

Some people are not OK with abortion.

Regardless of the circumstances.

[BrassFusion]

I could come up a ton of reasons as to why adoption MAY not be the best answer...I mean yes, there are millions of homeless kids and Kids currenlty on a waiting list.  Most of these kids will probably live less than normal lives.

Piss Poor planning or not, Adoption can be used as a healthy alternative for someone who is not looking to abort the child for whatever reason.

Some people are not OK with abortion. 

Regardless of the circumstances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well yeah, I can respect that... but at this rate, the stigma will disappear from abortion and the people who feel a "moral" conflict will become fewer and fewer.

[kellygrrrrrl]

...which is really sad I think.

=(

But nothing I can do about that....

[Blackmail]

Well yeah, I can respect that... but at this rate, the stigma will disappear from abortion and the people who feel a "moral" conflict will become fewer and fewer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it doesn't seem to be getting any less of a stigma.

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

The polls reflect that over the past 10 years, there is little change on how people feel about abortions.

[Blackmail]

Everybody is sick in some way as considered by everyone else. Infanticide has been around a whole lot longer than you, and yes, it has a practical application in some cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The world has evolved past this line of thinking, especially in the west, where it's been outlawed, obviously. There is no practical reason for infanticide.

[Hellion]

:devil What I don't get ,is that these human rights morons try to help convicted child molesters,and I cannot stand human rights idiots.They never ever help the good honest people that need help.and the death penalty for child molesters should exhist,counsiling will not cure these scumbags,and its a waste of our tax dollars to house and care for them.And give it time they let these beasts out again and again!!!IMO

[torn asunder]

based solely on the topic title - no, i don't get how someone can be pro-life when it comes to childern/fetuses/zygotes/what-have-you, but then be *for* the death penalty. so, it's fine if you want to kill an adult as a punishment/act of revenge, but not to *kill* something that doesn't even know what life is in the first place? if your argument is that it's murder/etc, what do you call govt. sanctioned executions!? and another thing, who the f**k are you (generalization) to tell a woman what she can/can't do with her body!? if a woman doesn't want to doesn't want to spend her life rearing a child, or even go thru the process of growing a baby inside her, who are you to tell her, "too bad, you have to, we don't care what you think!"?? i've known plenty of responsible adults who have been very cautious when it comes to bith control, and still gotten pregnant... you don't want kids, you shouldn't be forced to have them.

umm... yeah. or something... :blink

[Blackmail]

The Pro-Life crowd does not want to tell the women what to do with their body, they want to protect the life a child, as they see it. The "controlling a womans body" is the byproduct of that, at least in the eyes of the Pro-Choice.

So while the pro-choice may say "who are you to tell a woman what to do with their own body" the pro-life person could say "who are you to end the life of a growing, living thing"? And yes, it is a living creature.

Biologic human life is defined by examining the scientific facts of human development. This is a field where there is no controversy, no disagreement. The more scientific knowledge of fetal development that has been learned, the more science has confirmed that the beginning of any one human individual’s life, biologically speaking, begins at the completion of the union of his father’s sperm and his mother’s ovum, a process called "conception," "fertilization" or "fecundation." This is so because this being, from fertilization, is alive, human, sexed, complete and growing.

So basically, you can't go around killing a life because you don't want to be a parent, according to the pro-lifers. otherwise, why not allow infanticide as brought up above?

[torn asunder]

So basically, you can't go around killing a life because you don't want to be a parent, according to the pro-lifers.

"according to the pro-lifers" - yeah, i can see how that's their stance.

i think they're wrong.

oh well...

[Guest Megalicious]

Also... do you really think that woman should be OBLIGATED to reproduce? In a truly fair world, would she even have the opportunity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very true Brass.

[Steven]

Touchy Touchy Subjects....

I really hate them.  If you have an "opinion" someone will always dissagree.  For whatever reason.  For good reason I'm sure.

RE: Pro-Life/Abortion

I think it depends on circumstance.  I think that one should aim to save a life.  Afterall it is a life.  Even if it is like 5 cells big, it's still a "Life".  And everybody deserves a chance. 

But on the other hand, there are some people out there that have no business raising children. Fact. 

I think it being used as birth control is absolutely sickening.  Yes, if you have had to have MULTIPLE abortions.....come on.  Use some protection.  Do SOMETHING.  If you are a prostitute, or a druggy having sex for more drugs or a combination of both, get on BC....do SOMETHING.  Having abortions I think should not be taken lightly.  IT'S A LIFE.   

Now if you are raped, and get pregnant well, thats a decision that you will have to make.  AND ultimately, Live with. 

There are millions of sterile couples looking to adopt.

I understand that not all methods of birth control are 100% effective. Double up. 

Play it safe.  Sex is to procreate. Sex was invented to have children.  Thats what happens when you have sex. 

You know that.  People have been doing this for bilions of years.

If you are not ready for a child, you probably shouldn't be doing it, or at least doing it carelessly...

I believe there should be a choice. Absolutely, but you also have to live with your decisions.

RE: Death Penalty

I believe in an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth law.

If some fucker kills someone, he should die as well.

Not live in a cozy cell fed day and nite getting to play outside when it's nice out stealing my tax dollars away.

If one kills....they have allowed themselves to "go there".  They are sick.  They have manipulated thier own brain into thinking that this is OK.  No, it's not. 

If someone steals $100, they should be obligated to pay the person back...community service...for example. 

Now the judicial system is what throws a wrench into my thoughts. 

Because no matter WHAT we do, nothing is truth.  Like with OJ....Nobody REALLY Knows...you know?  I never knew what to think.  I thought he was guilty, but they let him go.  He may be raping and killing woman right now.  Had we sent him to jail or killed him and he was not guilty, we would have wrongfully taken HIS life.

So many people are Genius status.  They know what to say, they know how to manpulate, they know what not to say and when.  Muther fuck'a are SMART. 

They could have set someone up, like in Shawshank Redemption.  Andrew Dufrain was not guilty but spent YEARS in Prison and escaped....(One of my favorite movies BTW)

I am on the fence on both

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

really really liked this post Kelly.