Don't use your race as an excuse!!!

[Steven]

Shit doesn't stay lighthearted on DGN for long some days. If it gets out of hand, then we have issues. For now, there are a lot of REALLY great viewpoints flying though here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

now see?

THAT'S a healthy attitude.

How I do love my Brenda Starr......

[Paper Hearts]

quoted and condensed to focus on a couple of points....

a)  amazing how this subject makes people angry. 

b)  retarded is your point of view, obviously important to you.  some of these other points of view likewise, matter to them.  What your doing here is basically saying that yours is the only point of view worth anything white man (joke...ok?).

c)  I'm not talking about empathy regarding minorities and the like.  In fact, I dont need the empathy, and neither do you.  I'm simply talking about certain experiences that we share that are uniquely our own due to our culture which yes happens to come from our distinctive nationalities.  Here's a cheesy example:  I watch George Lopez' standup routine and howl till the tears roll down.  Laura, giggles a bit here and there, but there is SO much inside shit that is uniquely Latino that it fly's right past her - she does not get it or recognize it.  Is that a sin?  Fuck no, she's not Latino - I am.  Those same little idiosincrities have a hand in shaping who I am and how I process certain stimuli, how I address people, what I do in stressful situations, etc.  Its neither right nor wrong, it simply is what it is.  And that was my point.  That to argue from a data based or "studied" approach regarding certain types of people and cultures is to miss some very important fly-bys that are difficult to explain to those outside of the experience.  Those littel things, can be very important to them - yes, but maybe not so important to you, because those experiences are nto part of a chain of events in the same way that they would be for somone within the culture.  I'm not talking about what's in my DNA - I'm talking about what's in my life experience as Steven Urenda versus the life experience of Billy Johnson. 

d)  I'm applying the same question to you that I asked of Brass......where - is there an insinuation on my part that  someone is in a better position, or sombody owes somebody, or somebody has a greater capacity for emotion or reasoning or somebody is a natural dumb ass or???????  Where do I say these things?  I dont - because I do not beleive these things.

What I DO say however - is that we come from different backgrounds and expereinces - and every one of them deserves some real consideration and regardless of how smart you are our what resources you've gleaned from.......perhaps a listening ear and a moment to pause can teach you even more. 

Unless your too smart for that.  Then you dont have to.

Steven

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me clarify, I am so sorry...I don't disagree w/ most of what you have said in this thread, in fact, I'm more on your side of the issue here than on the side of most others, but I don't agree with everything you say and I just wanted to be fair. I mean, find me another Mexican guy who agrees with everything that you've ever said in your life and I'll quit. What I find retarded is that this thread happened the way it did with everyone pointing the finger at other groups of people and pretty much from the start. It's a touchy issue and I just don't think that this was a great way to approach it. Most of the people here just ended up more offended.

I realize that there are cultural differences between African Americans and Mexicans and Whites and all other groups of people and I realize it because basically my entire life has been set in a city that is 85% black and another city which was a majority Mexican. I've been a majority on a national level but I've always been a minority on a city level, which is where I live my life. That said, the cultural differences that do exist between us are not things that stop people from understanding issues important to someone of another race or nationality; what stops people from understanding each other's problems is racism, plain and simple. Cultures are simply learned behaviors, they are not inherant and natural differences. This is why I'm offended when I hear someone insinuate that I and all who look like me are not capable of understanding them because their culture is different than the one they assign to all people of my same color.

You did not insinuate as far as I'm concerned that anyone owes anyone anything...although, (Christ) I did not want to get into this, but I feel that given the situation today with a majority of lower population groups in the US, that certain people ARE owed something from this country (see, not just your average white boy!). I did not say that white people owe them, but this country owes some people some justice. I mean let's face it, Black people weren't fleeing from Canada to the United States in earlier centuries and it wasn't white people who weren't allowed to vote until fairly recently...and the majority ethnic populated ghettos that are out there didn't just form by happenstance--there is a direct link. But on the otherhand, I also feel that all people have an obligation to help those less fortunate, regardless of color or culture.

[Paper Hearts]

I just re-read that ^ and I think it sounds waaaay too much like a 'Springer's final thought'.

[Steven]

Let me clarify, I am so sorry...I don't disagree w/ most of what you have said in this thread, in fact, I'm more on your side of the issue here than on the side of most others, but I don't agree with everything you say and I just wanted to be fair. I mean, find me another Mexican guy who agrees with everything that you've ever said in your life and I'll quit. What I find retarded is that this thread happened the way it did with everyone pointing the finger at other groups of people and pretty much from the start. It's a touchy issue and I just don't think that this was a great way to approach it. Most of the people here just ended up more offended.

I realize that there are cultural differences between African Americans and Mexicans and Whites and all other groups of people and I realize it because basically my entire life has been set in a city that is 85% black and another city which was a majority Mexican. I've been a majority on a national level but I've always been a minority on a city level, which is where I live my life. That said, the cultural differences that do exist between us  are not things that stop people from understanding issues important to someone of another race or nationality; what stops people from understanding each other's problems is racism, plain and simple. Cultures are simply learned behaviors, they are not inherant and natural differences. This is why I'm offended when I hear someone insinuate that I and all who look like me are not capable of understanding them because their culture is different than the one they assign to all people of my same color.

You did not insinuate as far as I'm concerned that anyone owes anyone anything...although, (Christ) I did not want to get into this, but I feel that  given the situation today with a majority of lower population groups in the US, that certain people ARE owed something from this country (see, not just your average white boy!). I did not say that white people owe them, but this country owes some people some justice. I mean let's face it, Black people weren't fleeing from Canada to the United States in earlier centuries and it wasn't white people who weren't allowed to vote until fairly recently...and the majority ethnic populated ghettos that are out there didn't just form by happenstance--there is a direct link. But on the otherhand, I also feel that all people have an obligation to help those less fortunate, regardless of color or culture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that was a dang good post there PH.

You just jumped way up on the respectometer.

Peace

Steven

[Hellion]

Let me clarify, I am so sorry...I don't disagree w/ most of what you have said in this thread, in fact, I'm more on your side of the issue here than on the side of most others, but I don't agree with everything you say and I just wanted to be fair. I mean, find me another Mexican guy who agrees with everything that you've ever said in your life and I'll quit. What I find retarded is that this thread happened the way it did with everyone pointing the finger at other groups of people and pretty much from the start. It's a touchy issue and I just don't think that this was a great way to approach it. Most of the people here just ended up more offended.

I realize that there are cultural differences between African Americans and Mexicans and Whites and all other groups of people and I realize it because basically my entire life has been set in a city that is 85% black and another city which was a majority Mexican. I've been a majority on a national level but I've always been a minority on a city level, which is where I live my life. That said, the cultural differences that do exist between us  are not things that stop people from understanding issues important to someone of another race or nationality; what stops people from understanding each other's problems is racism, plain and simple. Cultures are simply learned behaviors, they are not inherant and natural differences. This is why I'm offended when I hear someone insinuate that I and all who look like me are not capable of understanding them because their culture is different than the one they assign to all people of my same color.

You did not insinuate as far as I'm concerned that anyone owes anyone anything...although, (Christ) I did not want to get into this, but I feel that  given the situation today with a majority of lower population groups in the US, that certain people ARE owed something from this country (see, not just your average white boy!). I did not say that white people owe them, but this country owes some people some justice. I mean let's face it, Black people weren't fleeing from Canada to the United States in earlier centuries and it wasn't white people who weren't allowed to vote until fairly recently...and the majority ethnic populated ghettos that are out there didn't just form by happenstance--there is a direct link. But on the otherhand, I also feel that all people have an obligation to help those less fortunate, regardless of color or culture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Example:

Just for the hell of it,no people whatsoever involved,look at mother nature,and look at a red ants nest,they use the black ants as slaves,PS this is not directed towards any minority at all.this is just useless biology info.thats all.blame Mother Nature on this issue.

Now back to the subject,I have Black friends,hispanic friends,and some of my other friends either have some arab in them,and I know a few jewish people,and asian,people.My friends that are minority have been very good to me,and I have alot of respect for them.I blame most of the problems on the media,because they overhype everything.PS very good wording PH.

IMO I think its time to kill off this thread before it becomes a drama problem.It would be nice if everyone could get along,sometime.

[Paper Hearts]

I think the problem is our government's responsibility to handle. I think that Affirmitive Action is a cheap fix...and although it's helped some people the truth is that most of the people that really need help never make it far enough to use it because the conditions of their lives are too shitty. Through many years of Affirmitive Action we still have way too many ghettos.

I think reparations is something that should have been handled after the end of the Civil War and frankly the problem now is a lot larger than just blacks and native Americans.

If this government really wanted to handle the problem, and I mean really handle it is as if they actually cared there would have to be much more money invested into low-income area public schools, there would have to be many more scholarships available to low income students, a lot more money would have to be invested into low-income areas including money into things like public transportation systems and money set aside for cities to offer as incentive to potential new buisnesses that would offer reasonable jobs.

The fact is though that this government (*ques Dead Kennedys, KILL, KILL KILL, KILL, KILL THE POOR!!) doesn't even want to raise the minimum wage because "it would hurt the economy" And you know what? They're fuckin right, because they've so many other costly things going on right now that if they actually wanted to put something like all this together they'd have to come up with a new department, just like they did with the Department of Homeland Security, called the 'Department Of Oops, Guess It Wasn't A Free Country After All' just to handle the budget for such a thing. And then you'd still have the problems of discrimination in the hiring office, so interviews would have to be recorded and and applications kept on record AND penalties for discrimination would have to be made worse.

But you know what? I hope they are not allowed to weasel out of it.

[The_Dark]

Paperhearts.. very good post... very well worded... and completly on the wrong track. The Government CAN"T fix this problem... nor should they even waste thier time and money trying. This is not a problem that Government is designed to overcome. No amount of money is going to solve this. This is a really big problem with a really small cure. It's called Education and that my friend, starts at home.

Racism is a natural extension of how we think. At the core of our thought processes we catagorize everything, put a label on it and that label sticks. All too often we use bad labels that emphasize the wrong things. Lets look at an example...

A friend and I were walking down the street and we saw a car broke down with a man trying to fix it. His family (a woman and 4 young children) are sitting in the car trying to stay out of the hot sun.

I noticed what the kids and the parents were wearing. What condition the car was in... how many callouses were on the man's hands... I'll also noticed how the kids and the wife looked at me.

Then I went and offered help. My friend just stood under a tree and watched.

As we were fixing the problem I over heard one of the children say "Mommy, why is that man helping us?" and the mother responded "Because he is a good person."

I've never felt better in my life aobut helping someone.

After we had the family on thier way and I had turned down the $20 the man offered me for the help my friend asked me "What was that about... we are going to be late for the game." "They needed help." "But dude, it was just some poor white trash." I''ve never been so angry with a friend before...

People are not trash. No matter thier skin color. No matter where thier familys is from.

The point is... the government didn't teach me that. Nor did it teach my friend his reaction. Our parents did, without any government prompting.

Tolerance and acceptance starts at home. Strong moral values start at home. The Government should not be trying to force feed Morals and values to people. It's just not the right vehicle for the message.

[Brenda Starrr]

People are not trash. No matter thier skin color. No matter where thier familys is from.

Tolerance and acceptance starts at home. Strong moral values start at home. The Government should not be trying to force feed Morals and values to people. It's just not the right vehicle for the message.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark, I think I love you.

This is what my kids are learning here in our home. No one is "trash." No one. It drives me insane when people who are influential in my children's lives put others down because they aren't "like us." Because they are supposedly "fucked up." Yet, the very people who are putting others down are actually in no place to do so. They're NOT perfect. They're just people.

Luckily, my kids are "getting it."

Edited to add: I've had my own issues with believing that certain people are a waste of skin. Yes, they have value. Yes, so do I. Because I know certain people come here, strictly to read my stuff and only see what they want to see.

You still have value. There. I said it.

Threadjack done.

[Msterbeau]

Paperhearts.. very good post... very well worded... and completly on the wrong track. The Government CAN"T fix this problem... nor should they even waste thier time and money trying. This is not a problem that Government is designed to overcome. No amount of money is going to solve this. This is a really big problem with a really small cure. It's called Education and that my friend, starts at home.

Racism is a natural extension of how we think. At the core of our thought processes we catagorize everything, put a label on it and that label sticks. All too often we use bad labels that emphasize the wrong things. Lets look at an example...

A friend and I were walking down the street and we saw a car broke down with a man trying to fix it. His family (a woman and 4 young children) are sitting in the car trying to stay out of the hot sun.

I noticed what the kids and the parents were wearing. What condition the car was in... how many callouses were on the man's hands... I'll also noticed how the kids and the wife looked at me.

Then I went and offered help. My friend just stood under a tree and watched.

As we were fixing the problem I over heard one of the children say "Mommy, why is that man helping us?" and the mother responded "Because he is a good person."

I've never felt better in my life aobut helping someone.

After we had the family on thier way and I had turned down the $20 the man offered me for the help my friend asked me "What was that about... we are going to be late for the game." "They needed help." "But dude, it was just some poor white trash."  I''ve never been so angry with a friend before...

People are not trash. No matter thier skin color. No matter where thier familys is from.

The point is... the government didn't teach me that. Nor did it teach my friend his reaction. Our parents did, without any government prompting.

Tolerance and acceptance starts at home. Strong moral values start at home. The Government should not be trying to force feed Morals and values to people. It's just not the right vehicle for the message.

Well said Mark. You're so right about the education thing. People gotta break the cycle of hatred and distrust in people and things that are different then they're used to. But here's where Affirmative Action and other government programs have the *possibility* of helping. How can people become aware of other peoples points of view and situations if they never experience them face to face? Getting minorities in school situations and work situations does that. (FYI - I'm very torn over Afirmative Action.. I'm a firm believe in the most qualified applicants getting selected... but I also see the value (short term) of allowing other critera to base decisions on for the overall society's benefit.)

[The_Dark]

I have to agree... government programs help.. but they, in themselves, are not the cure. They are mearly another tool familys can use to teach the next generation of people to be... well... good people.

Reperations are wrong. To any group of people. If we paid everyone who had been wronged by another group of people... thats all we would do with out money. People act like Slavery, bigotry and recial intolerance are new things invented by Americans. Thier not.

I don't see anyone calling for Egyptions to pay the Jews reperations for building all thier great works of architechture.

I don't see anyone calling on Italy to pay reperations to the rest of Europe, North Africa and the middles east for what the Roman's did.

Nor the French or Dutch for captureing and transporting the slaves out of Africa.

Nor the other Africans that sold Africans into Slavery.

I could go on and on as we go back in history to give examples of one people oppressing another... Reperations are not a fix.. they are not even a bandaid... they are a teaspoon of sugar to make the shit your eating taste better.

[Paper Hearts]

I just want to point out that the government wouldn't be spending "their" money on anything...these are your tax dollars and mine and everyone else's.

And no, the government is not going to be able to erase racism from the face of the nation at all...but the government of this country has already created a hell of a problem through the years and at this point the playing field for a lot of people is very unlevel.

Can you imagine how laughable it would be for the government to just come out and say "nope, we can't fix it, do it yourselves"? If Affirmitive Action is ever banned you'd better hope that "Nope, we can't fix it, do it yourselves" is not their plan B because people are not going to stand for that. You can bet that minorities are not going to just finally roll over and go "all right, well fuck it then".

You will not find ghettos as bad or as many as we have in any other first-world nation on the planet. They don't have them like this in Canada, you won't find them in Great Britain. This problem is a direct result of choices we have made down through the centuries. Australia doesn't have to deal with it because they don't have a history like ours, niether does Netherlands; it's completely singular to the United States. Americans on AVERAGE enjoy a better standard of living. The entire situation is sickening. Those of us that enjoy these high standards wouldn't have them at all if it wasn't for some of our fellow citizens repeatedly being fucked over by an irresponsible government through out our history.

[phee]

If you were in theory to put 2 children black and white in a sandbox and let them play... they would grow up not knowing to hate one another... Racism is taught by the culture.... there is a natural want to have more, get more, be better then those around you, but color is not the main issue... What is being taught is...

Good thread BTW

[wheresmypiggy]

I don't know the real reason this thread was started. Maybe out of anger or out of losing patience. Maybe it wasn't meant to sound rude. Maybe it was just a simple opinion.

I will say this. I believe this thread to be one of the most eye opening and educational threads on DGN. (Save on personal attack made)

What we need to all remeber is this, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I don't think this thread should be locked or ignored. Race and minorities are a big issue in our society and our whole lives. And when I say minorities it can mean anyone. Minority is not blacks or mexicans. Whites can be a minority as well.

What I hope to see come from this thread is more learning and understanding about each other. We all have our own views and opinions for different reasons.

We are who we are raised to be. We can change that but most people dont. It becomes engrained into them and sometimes its the ignorance or even the compassion that shines the brightest.

Just listen, comment and learn from each other. Don't cast blame and judgement.

I think the problem is our government's responsibility to handle. I think that Affirmitive Action is a cheap fix...and although it's helped some people the truth is that most of the people that really need help never make it far enough to use it because the conditions of their lives are too shitty. Through many years of Affirmitive Action we still have way too many ghettos.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(FYI - I'm very torn over Afirmative Action.. I'm a firm believe in the most qualified applicants getting selected... but I also see the value (short term) of allowing other critera to base decisions on for the overall society's benefit.)

Racism is a natural extension of how we think. At the core of our thought processes we catagorize everything, put a label on it and that label sticks. All too often we use bad labels that emphasize the wrong things. Lets look at an example...

Just a few great quotes.

[Paper Hearts]

If you were in theory to put 2 children black and white in a sandbox and let them play... they would grow up not knowing to hate one another... Racism is taught by the culture.... there is a natural want to have more, get more, be better then those around you, but color is not the main issue... What is being taught is...

Good thread BTW

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, when a black man grows up in in a run down nieghborhood and later on in life has to take the bus when white men his age own brand new cars it deffintaely teaches him something, you're absolutely right.

[BrassFusion]

Have you guys been paying attention to the suburbs in the past several years? They're getting a lot darker, and no, that's not a bad thing. It's the system working. People who have a strong enough work ethic are moving on up to the east side.

[Hellion]

I don't know the real reason this thread was started. Maybe out of anger or out of losing patience. Maybe it wasn't meant to sound rude. Maybe it was just a simple opinion.

I will say this. I believe this thread to be one of the most eye opening and educational threads on DGN. (Save on personal attack made)

What we need to all remeber is this, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I don't think this thread should be locked or ignored. Race and minorities are a big issue in our society and our whole lives. And when I say minorities it can mean anyone. Minority is not blacks or mexicans. Whites can be a minority as well.

What I hope to see come from this thread is more learning and understanding about each other. We all have our own views and opinions for different reasons.

We are who we are raised to be. We can change that but most people dont. It becomes engrained into them and sometimes its the ignorance or even the compassion that shines the brightest.

Just listen, comment and learn from each other. Don't cast blame and judgement.

Just a few great quotes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:devil Right on.

[Paper Hearts]

East Point, south Warren are not exactly happy areas and they've not been as long as I can remember. Where as they used to be full of low-income whites they now also contain low-income minorities...and soon the whites will move out to the Hinterlands and the situation in those suburbs will get even worse...Meanwhile those stuck in Detroit become even poorer. What you are looking at is the ghetto growing. Taxes in the suburbs are actually much cheaper than they are in Detroit because Detroit is in a financial crisis...which by the way, has also been caused by this same system. A lot of times living is cheaper in the burbs than it is in the city. What you are looking at is people saying " I can't take it anymore, I have like no city services left, my taxes are high as hell, I HAVE to move to the suburbs".

People don't respect lip-service. Do you think that anyone honestly believes that we will just all learn to like eachother? We don't have enough of Phee's sandboxes ^ to fix this and a lot of people wouldn't put their kids in those sandboxes even if we did. If you want to teach you have to fix the problem.

[The_Dark]

You will not find ghettos as bad or as many as we have in any other first-world nation on the planet. They don't have them like this in Canada, you won't find them in Great Britain. This problem is a direct result of choices we have made down through the centuries. Australia doesn't have to deal with it because they don't have a history like ours, niether does Netherlands; it's completely singular to the United States. Americans on AVERAGE enjoy a better standard of living. The entire situation is sickening. Those of us that enjoy these high standards wouldn't have them at all if it wasn't for some of our fellow citizens repeatedly being fucked over by an irresponsible government through out our history.

Excuse me?

Canada's government has an index it uses to measure poverty and racism in an area... it's called the BCHI (Brown Collar Ghetto Index) Toronto alone has 120 neighborhoods that are considered to be Ghettos.

Have you ever read about the Ghetto's in England? You miss the Riots in the French ghettos?

[The_Dark]

and Paperhearts, I know that it's our moeny the government is using. I don't agree that it's governments problem. It's a social problem and I can't think of one social problem a goverment has ever fixed.

[Paper Hearts]

Excuse me?

Canada's government has an index it uses to measure poverty and racism in an area... it's called the BCHI (Brown Collar Ghetto Index) Toronto alone has 120 neighborhoods that are considered to be Ghettos.

Have you ever read about the Ghetto's in England? You miss the Riots in the French ghettos?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not like it is here. It's not as bad. And even if it were, it wouldn't excuse us from changing the situation.

A ghetto in Canada is normally like an Indian reservation...which we have more of here, as well. Glasgow is nothing compared to Detroit or South Bronx or the south side of Chicago or LA or Jacksonville, or Atlanta, or Cleaveland or LA, etc, etc and niether is Brixton. I'm not saying other countries do not have problems and that they are not obligated to fix their problems as well, I'm saying they do not have situations as bad as here while at the same time their national averages are so high.

[Paper Hearts]

and Paperhearts, I know that it's our moeny the government is using. I don't agree that it's governments problem. It's a social problem and I can't think of one social problem a goverment has ever fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that anyone truely expects the problem to go away all together but people do expect justice...and we've appointed this government to perfrom the justice function among other things.

[Steven]

Paperhearts.. very good post... very well worded... and completly on the wrong track. The Government CAN"T fix this problem... nor should they even waste thier time and money trying. This is not a problem that Government is designed to overcome. No amount of money is going to solve this. This is a really big problem with a really small cure. It's called Education and that my friend, starts at home.

Racism is a natural extension of how we think. At the core of our thought processes we catagorize everything, put a label on it and that label sticks. All too often we use bad labels that emphasize the wrong things. Lets look at an example...

A friend and I were walking down the street and we saw a car broke down with a man trying to fix it. His family (a woman and 4 young children) are sitting in the car trying to stay out of the hot sun.

I noticed what the kids and the parents were wearing. What condition the car was in... how many callouses were on the man's hands... I'll also noticed how the kids and the wife looked at me.

Then I went and offered help. My friend just stood under a tree and watched.

As we were fixing the problem I over heard one of the children say "Mommy, why is that man helping us?" and the mother responded "Because he is a good person."

I've never felt better in my life aobut helping someone.

After we had the family on thier way and I had turned down the $20 the man offered me for the help my friend asked me "What was that about... we are going to be late for the game." "They needed help." "But dude, it was just some poor white trash."  I''ve never been so angry with a friend before...

People are not trash. No matter thier skin color. No matter where thier familys is from.

The point is... the government didn't teach me that. Nor did it teach my friend his reaction. Our parents did, without any government prompting.

Tolerance and acceptance starts at home. Strong moral values start at home. The Government should not be trying to force feed Morals and values to people. It's just not the right vehicle for the message.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ah but you make me proud my friend.

this was excellent. Thank You.

Steven

[Steven]

I know certain people come here, strictly to read my stuff and only see what they want to see.

You still have value. There. I said it.

Threadjack done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I come here to read her stuff because I dig her and I trust her heart and respect the way she thinks.

and because one good Thread Jack deserves another.....

[Steven]

Well, when a black man grows up in in a run down nieghborhood and later on in life has to take the bus when white men his age own brand new cars it deffintaely teaches him something, you're absolutely right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is me, the guy on the bus, the guy from the Barrio.

only I'm Brown, not black.

But I never sweated my white peers for what they had in comparison to myself.

The thought was definately introduced to me by my fellow Latinos, but it never sat well with me to hand my personal power over by way of finger pointing. That's what it taught me. In time I would be rejected by these same latinos, because I did not take my obligatory side with them, I was accused of being too "white"....

Incidently, I also mowed the lawns and stepped in the dogshit of my rich white peers in elementary school and Jr High school, as my father was quite literally, their neighborhood gardener. Those kids never included me in their social circles, it would not look right.

who taught both of these groups to make the decisions about me that they did?

everything, starts and ends, at home.

[Paper Hearts]

this is me, the guy on the bus, the guy from the Barrio.

only I'm Brown, not black.

But I never sweated my white peers for what they had in comparison to myself.

The thought was definately introduced to me by my peers, but it never sat well with me to hand my personal power over by way of finger pointing.  That's what it taught me. 

Incidently, I also mowed the lawns and stepped in the dogshit of my rich white peers in elementary school and Jr High school, as my father was quite literally, their gardener.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Deffinately, I don't think you can blame the guy who buys the new car or the person with the nice house just because they had the money to do it, but I believe it's very reasonable to blame the system that caused the situation to be so uneven. The fact is that for hundreds of years this country sponsored racism. It's no coincidence, certain peoples are not simply born with a gene that makes them more destitute.

The government didn't teach it = my ass.

I understand pride and I understand that living with disadvantages can drive someone to achieve more...but it's still not fair that certain people should have those disadvantages at such a dispropotionate level. Ideally we all start out with the same chances.