Seatbelt laws

[phee]

I personally think that people should always obey the seatbelt laws for their children

But as an adult, they shouldn't exist.... Let me explain

I always wear a seatbelt.... ALWAYS.... everyone I know does....

But if you don't think you should have to wear one, if you think that it is rediculous that the government would pass such a law... then don't!

If you are dumb enough not to wear a seatbelt on your own... the human race doesn't need that stupidity in the jean pool.... and if you eliminate yourself from it you will be doing the rest of the human race a favor... It will lower the chances that you will breed... yay Darwinism!

[Paper Hearts]

If Darwin were alive in the United States today, he'd take back everything he ever said about evolution.

[BrassFusion]

I personally think that people should always obey the seatbelt laws for their children

But as an adult, they shouldn't exist.... Let me explain

I always wear a seatbelt.... ALWAYS.... everyone I know does....

But if you don't think you should have to wear one, if you think that it is rediculous that the government would pass such a law... then don't!

If you are dumb enough not to wear a seatbelt on your own... the human race doesn't need that stupidity in the jean pool.... and if you eliminate yourself from it you will be doing the rest of the human race a favor... It will lower the chances that you will breed... yay Darwinism!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally agreed.

But I feel the need to debate you. So I'll call you out on not addressing the alternative opinion.

Wdfxupwitchoo not addressing the alternative opinion? Nazi!!!

[sinmantyx]

I've gone back and forth about seat-belt laws, because generally I'm a civil liberty type of lady.

However, I don't believe it is a completely "victimless crime". I think, if I were to get into a two-car accident and the people in the other car died because they were stupid enough not to wear their seat-belts, it would cause me more emotional pain than if they did not die because they DID wear their seatbelts.

I know it's a stretch, but that's the best I can do.

I suppose the same argument could be said about helmet laws for motorbikes. I've never been big on those either.

[phee]

Totally agreed.

But I feel the need to debate you. So I'll call you out on not addressing the alternative opinion.

Wdfxupwitchoo not addressing the alternative opinion? Nazi!!!

Debate is fun... what is the other option again...

Commi!!!

[BrassFusion]

I've gone back and forth about seat-belt laws, because generally I'm a civil liberty type of lady.

However, I don't believe it is a completely "victimless crime".  I think, if I were to get into a two-car accident and the people in the other car died because they were stupid enough not to wear their seat-belts, it would cause me more emotional pain than if they did not die because they DID wear their seatbelts.

I know it's a stretch, but that's the best I can do.

I suppose the same argument could be said about helmet laws for motorbikes.  I've never been big on those either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be emotional hell, sure, but your right to emotional security shouldn't take precedence over their physical rights.

And Phee's a phascist!

[phee]

What is the otherside of the issue that you see Brass...

Dominearing Gothic Witch!!!

[Msterbeau]

How about healthcare/hospital costs? All the uninsured motorists out there drive up the price for all of us when they get in accidents and can't pay. If they were belted they would very like not sustain as much injury. Same goes for helmet laws. Even more so.

I'm not disagreeing with the Darwin thing, though... More of a pocketbook issue.

[Paper Hearts]

I say we round up all the seat belts and ship them back to the communist countries they came from.

[HipsterDufus]

How about healthcare/hospital costs?  All the uninsured motorists out there drive up the price for all of us when they get in accidents and can't pay.  If they were belted they would very like not sustain as much injury.  Same goes for helmet laws.  Even more so.

I'm not disagreeing with the Darwin thing, though...  More of a pocketbook issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's always a price to be paid for personal freedoms, whether it's in lives, money, or emotional pain. Personally, my tolerance for the cost is pretty high (in this case). Some people's tolerance is different. That's why we meet somewhere in the middle. However, I'm of the belief that the law was only passed to make money for our government. Like our government really gives a damn for our welfare, yeah right.

[BrassFusion]

How about healthcare/hospital costs?  All the uninsured motorists out there drive up the price for all of us when they get in accidents and can't pay.  If they were belted they would very like not sustain as much injury.  Same goes for helmet laws.  Even more so.

I'm not disagreeing with the Darwin thing, though...  More of a pocketbook issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that pocketbook issue, again, should not take precedence over anyone's physical rights. Hell, they could even have a clause that states if you weren't wearing a seatbelt and sustained severe injuries, they wouldn't treat you unless you could pay for it out of pocket. Give me liberty or give me grisly death!

Anyway, phee, I think Marc and Sinmantyx both did great jobs stating the other side of the issue, you um... damn dirty ape!

[torn asunder]

i've always been pro-choice on most everything - my grandmother would have been killed decades ago in a rollover, had she been wearing a seatbelt. (yeah, i know it's rare, but i've seen it, so it counts for me) i think it should be your choice, just like helmets...

[torn asunder]

and health care costs? how much more likely do you think someone is to die if not wearing a belt? i don't see a lot of health care costs associated with the dead... :blink :whistling :innocent

[phee]

i've always been pro-choice on most everything - my grandmother would have been killed decades ago in a rollover, had she been wearing a seatbelt. (yeah, i know it's rare, but i've seen it, so it counts for me) i think it should be your choice, just like helmets...

I am in agreement there...

[Msterbeau]

Hospitals are closing because they can't sustain the costs of the uninsured... It's not all motorists, obviously but each drop in the bucket gets you closer to the tipping point. I'd prefer to have hospitals over not having them and keeping a "freedom" like being belted.

Here's a thought: If you don't want to be belted.. YOU pay the cost by paying for the ticket instead of making us all pay for it in higher healthcare. Seems reasonable.

[phee]

Hospitals are closing because they can't sustain the costs of the uninsured...  It's not all motorists, obviously but each drop in the bucket gets you closer to the tipping point.  I'd prefer to have hospitals over not having them and keeping a "freedom" like being belted. 

Here's a thought:  If you don't want to be belted.. YOU pay the cost by paying for the ticket instead of making us all pay for it in higher healthcare.  Seems reasonable.

Reasonable sir

[Msterbeau]

and health care costs? how much more likely do you think someone is to die if not wearing a belt? i don't see a lot of health care costs associated with the dead... :blink    :whistling  :innocent

With all the new safety technologies.. the odds have increased enormously in the past 15 years that you WON'T die.

We got so frustrated with this shit as designers. We had to add knee bolsters at the bottom of the intrument panel (Driving up costs, weight and compexity) Because we had to deal with unbelted motorists. EVEN THOUGH THE LAW SAID THAT YOU HAD TO BE BELTED!!! In Europe, if you crash and you're not belted the insurance companies don't have to pay. Maybe I like that better then the ticket idea I proposed above. :-)

Also. Being belted in keeps you in your seat and able to control the vehicle better... thus you might avoid an accident.

[sinmantyx]

With all the new safety technologies..  the odds have increased enormously in the past 15 years  that you WON'T die. 

We got so frustrated with this shit as designers.  We had to add knee bolsters at the bottom of the intrument panel (Driving up costs, weight and compexity) Because we had to deal with unbelted motorists.  EVEN THOUGH THE LAW SAID THAT YOU HAD TO BE BELTED!!!  In Europe, if you crash and you're not belted the insurance companies don't have to pay.  Maybe I like that better then the ticket idea I proposed above.  :-)

Also.  Being belted in keeps you in your seat and able to control the vehicle better... thus you might avoid an accident.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're a designer?.....COOOOOOLLLL....*swoons*

For my car insurance we actually had to sign an agreement that we would always wear our safety belt. I also INSIST that everyone who is in my car is wearing one. I won't drive unless everyone is belted in. It doesn't just make sense for safty sake, but economic sake, in the case of an accident.

My young friends usually don't understand this, hence "Why can't we all go to Necto in ONE car, I'll sit in the trunk!" *sigh* I sometimes wonder how anyone grows up.

[Msterbeau]

To summerize: I can't make you wear belts and I don't want to. Just don't make me pay for it when you mutilate yourself because you're an idiot.

[Msterbeau]

You're a designer?.....COOOOOOLLLL....*swoons*

Bwaahhahahahaha!

Everyone's a designer these days. What they used to call "draftsmen" became "designers" when they gave em computers...

My profession used to be called "styling" but it seemed more serious and useful to be a "designer"...

And I didn't even include the aesthetic butchering that happens because of the (Primarily legal) necessity for knee bolsters. Bastards!!!!! How dare they ruin my work of art!!!

[sinmantyx]

Like our government really gives a damn for our welfare, yeah right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is everyone so freaking cynical? Is it completely above your imagination that laws of this nature are actually enacted to reduce the number of fatalities? The government is made up of human beings, many of which DO give a damn for our welfare.

[Msterbeau]

Why is everyone so freaking cynical?  Is it completely above your imagination that laws of this nature are actually enacted to reduce the number of fatalities?  The government is made up of human beings, many of which DO give a damn for our welfare.

And the government in many cases has to pay for those uninsured victims. And guess who pays for the governments programs?

You and I. I prefer NOT to pay for other people's stupidity. Or was that idiocy? Hmmm....

But back to Sin's point... A lot of laws do get enacted with the priimary purpose of safety. it's taken a lot of kicking and screaming on the part of the car companies to accept some of them, but as consumer demand has risen for safer cars... they've actually proven to be good business for the car companies.

Personally I wish we could get a few hundred pounds of safety junk OUT of the cars (airbags and equipment like that) put in a decent set of four point belts and TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO DRIVE PROPERLY!!!!! Driver's ed in this country is a joke as are many people's attitude behind the wheel. Maybe that's another topic... :whistling

[HipsterDufus]

Why is everyone so freaking cynical?  Is it completely above your imagination that laws of this nature are actually enacted to reduce the number of fatalities?  The government is made up of human beings, many of which DO give a damn for our welfare.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The government is only interested in the worker bee's health insofar as it maintains a tax base and keeps them in power. They have no other reason to be interested in our health and well-being. This has been proven time and time again throughout history.

[Blackmail]

How about healthcare/hospital costs?  All the uninsured motorists out there drive up the price for all of us when they get in accidents and can't pay.  If they were belted they would very like not sustain as much injury.  Same goes for helmet laws.  Even more so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ding Ding Ding.....we have a winner

[Blackmail]

Has anyone here done any studies on what Marc said? If you did, you wouldn't be arguing with him.