New Automotive Emmisions Technology

[Msterbeau]

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...41/TOC01ARCHIVE

AT A GLANCE:

WHY UREA?

Selective catalytic reduction, which uses urea to scrub NOx from diesel exhaust, offers these advantages.

Simplicity: Automakers can meet the toughest emissions standards on the books with a system that could be used in all markets.

Cost: Depending on the vehicle, a urea system could cost about half as much as the alternative, a lean NOx trap.

Integration: The system does not affect engine performance and could be installed without extensive modifications to the vehicle or engine.

Now the interesting part:

"Oge would not talk specifically about the guidelines. But she said disabling the car's engine when the urea tank is empty is a possibility. Automakers oppose preventing the engine from starting when the urea tank is empty, citing safety issues.

Oge says the EPA doesn't want to endanger drivers by having their engines turn off when the urea tank runs dry. But she said the EPA cannot allow vehicles that do not meet emission standards to be driven."

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Interesting.

I think the idea is that it wont start, from a totally cold stop, and it would be a requirement to keep the thing in working condtion to drive the vehicle. But no such drastic law would ever make it through legislation. Hell theres a reason we dont have catalytic converters required now, people dont care if its gonna cost them anything. Few are going to buy a car willingly that wont start becasue it might beltch out to many chemicals.

Similar to a breathalizer for your car. "you gonna spill your nasty crap out?" "sorry you dont get to drive today"

That will go over REAL well. Might be a good idea but it wont fly in the political wind.

[BrassFusion]

The link didn't work for me, but... Urea??

As in... piss power?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The link didn't work for me, but... Urea??

As in... piss power?

The link is working atm.

But yeah its sort of like hemp clothing , virtually no resmblance to what its originally associated with. Its a synthetic product essentially that is "based" on something organic, you cant fill it up by pissing into it heh.

Its one of the things they talk about sometimes as an alternative chemical to >whatever

[Soulrev]

Ahh it may interest some of you to know that the new OBDIII system already incorporates similar "disable" functions for when your car does something that makes a treehugger cry. Curious?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Funny how its only for diesel. Wonder if thats tech related or just politics.

[Msterbeau]

Ahh it may interest some of you to know that the new OBDIII system already incorporates similar "disable" functions for when your car does something that makes a treehugger cry. Curious?

So you object to having vehicles run cleaner?

[Msterbeau]

Funny how its only for diesel. Wonder if thats tech related or just politics.

Diesel's emmisions are somewhat different then a gas engines.

"But when it comes to smog-forming pollutants and toxic particulate matter, also known as soot, today's diesels are still a lot dirtier than the average gasoline car."

In addition to on-vehicle solutions, things like low sulpher gas are necessary to allow the diesel to meet current and future emmisions standars.

[HipsterDufus]

So you object to having vehicles run cleaner?

Ummmmm, if it means having my car shut off while I'm using it. Ever had a tow bill? Add that to the expense of the repair bill and you've got an even heftier chunk of change. What happens if you're on vacation and it goes out on you? Not to mention if it cuts off during a critical maneuver. Ugh, the horror scenarios are endless. I'm all for cleaner cars, but not that way.

[Msterbeau]

Ummmmm, if it means having my car shut off while I'm using it. Ever had a tow bill? Add that to the expense of the repair bill and you've got an even heftier chunk of change. What happens if you're on vacation and it goes out on you? Not to mention if it cuts off during a critical maneuver. Ugh, the horror scenarios are endless. I'm all for cleaner cars, but not that way.

I don't think anyone is so stupid as to mandate that the car shuts off while it's running. If they implement something like this I imagine the most reasonable way would be to have a warning light that goes off and lets you know you have a certain period of time before the car won't start. Maybe a couple weeks? I don't like the idea really, but if we're going to have clean air standards you have to enforce them somehow, right?

On a related note: I could see manufacturers doing the same thing for oil and coolant so you could never blow up the motor because you ignored a warning. Then again.. maybe people who do that deserve the consequences.

[HipsterDufus]

I don't think anyone is so stupid as to mandate that the car shuts off while it's running. If they implement something like this I imagine the most reasonable way would be to have a warning light that goes off and lets you know you have a certain period of time before the car won't start. Maybe a couple weeks? I don't like the idea really, but if we're going to have clean air standards you have to enforce them somehow, right?

On a related note: I could see manufacturers doing the same thing for oil and coolant so you could never blow up the motor because you ignored a warning. Then again.. maybe people who do that deserve the consequences.

Yeah, I realized after I reread the article that it wouldn't shut off while driving. I guess I can live with the scenario you put forward, but it's really going to suck if you can't afford that repair when it comes up. And what about when those cars are 15-20 years old? Most 15-20 year old cars are owned by people who are lower middle class or poor. After 15-20 years, that's when emissions related repairs are really going to be coming up. And then the repairs get foisted on those that can least afford them and they HAVE to make them; otherwise their car won't start.

[Msterbeau]

Yeah, I realized after I reread the article that it wouldn't shut off while driving. I guess I can live with the scenario you put forward, but it's really going to suck if you can't afford that repair when it comes up. And what about when those cars are 15-20 years old? Most 15-20 year old cars are owned by people who are lower middle class or poor. After 15-20 years, that's when emissions related repairs are really going to be coming up. And then the repairs get foisted on those that can least afford them and they HAVE to make them; otherwise their car won't start.

Well.. It's not a repair. It'll be like filling up the windshield washer fluid. Here's some info on the subject:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CY...6_6/ai_90331874

As for low income people. Smaller cars or mass transit are always options, depending on where they live. Japan is pretty draconian in the way it regulates cars. People are almost forced into buying a new car every 3-5 years so that emissions and other maintanence factors are never a problem. They have the mass tranist and population density to make it work.

I hate to say it... but in my view, air quality trumps low income economics. If we're serious about better air quality, we're going to have to work out a solution for older cars and mass transit in rural areas.

[Soulrev]

It's not about not caring if my car is clean and believe me I don't, however, it's the principal issue of a Big Brother, on your car..

It's ok though, even if I were to buy one of these new cars that has OBDIII on it, I can easily convert it to OBDII.

I'm a fuckin gearheaded wrench turning grease-monkey, of course I don't give a fuck if my car's emissions are bad.

Well, I'd also like to add that I am a performance junkie as well and if your car is in top shape as far as fuel efficiency and such, emissions are reduced anyways because it burns more complete.

[BrassFusion]

It's not about not caring if my car is clean and believe me I don't, however, it's the principal issue of a Big Brother, on your car..

It's ok though, even if I were to buy one of these new cars that has OBDIII on it, I can easily convert it to OBDII.

I'm a fuckin gearheaded wrench turning grease-monkey, of course I don't give a fuck if my car's emissions are bad.

Why not? it's just another thing to tinker around with and improve.

[Msterbeau]

It's not about not caring if my car is clean and believe me I don't, however, it's the principal issue of a Big Brother, on your car..

It's ok though, even if I were to buy one of these new cars that has OBDIII on it, I can easily convert it to OBDII.

I'm a fuckin gearheaded wrench turning grease-monkey, of course I don't give a fuck if my car's emissions are bad.

Well, I'd also like to add that I am a performance junkie as well and if your car is in top shape as far as fuel efficiency and such, emissions are reduced anyways because it burns more complete.

I'm a car performance nut too, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't care about the AIR WE BREATH. The two are not mutually exclusive.