Christian Bashing... A Question

[Guest Game of Chance]

There's a whole lot of yapping going on in this thread.

[phee]

Thats what the board is for!!!

[Guest Game of Chance]

Damn...I thought it was for making toast.

And I've been waiting all this time??

[HipsterDufus]

no, not simply because I'm a minority. Give me a wee bit of credit on this one bud.

can you go back and re read my two posts?

I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to do is give a reason that I think some things we say on the board might offend Christians. I think that every group of people, regardless of creed, intentionally or unintentionally, when they're in the majority, will do things that annoy people that aren't like them and who are in the minority.

Speaking for me personally, because of my upbringing, I have a lot of venom against fundamentalist Christians. This happens to be a good outlet for it, because a lot of people here can understand how I feel. For instance, I made fun of the Christian sex website. I figured a lot of people on here would get a laugh over it. I don't know if it offended you or not that I made fun of it, but I feel that this is a far more appropriate venue than, say, joking about it with Jerry Falwall's crew, because there are probably more non-Christians here than Christians. In my church, they would actually make fun of people who believed in evolution. I think it's along those same lines.

That is the nature of majority rule.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Reminds me of a story...I was in a youth-group when I was a kid. Mostly because there was a girl who I had a crush on that was in the group.

Religion was never discussed.

Until one day...the question was posed to me "Well...do you believe in god?"

My response..."No, not really."

The entire group literally took two steps back from me as if lightning was going to strike me down, right then and there.

Still makes me chuckle.

[kellygrrrrrl]

Religious extremeists usually take the intentions or prophesies of GOD into thier own hands by gross interpretation of scripture/text.

Which, in short, is what happened with the world trade center.

Which will naturally put a bad taste in people's mouths about religion as a whole.

[Homicidalheathen]

I don't think speaking your mind is bashing.....I like your point of view. And we are not on the same path so......who cares? Its refreshing. :peanutbutterjellytime

Phee, your always nice when you post.....very politically correct.....but get your point across. Whoever said this wants things their way all the time so don't worry about it.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Indeed.

That was an agreement with Kelly's post.

[phee]

Reminds me of a story...I was in a youth-group when I was a kid. Mostly because there was a girl who I had a crush on that was in the group.

Religion was never discussed.

Until one day...the question was posed to me "Well...do you believe in god?"

My response..."No, not really."

The entire group literally took two steps back from me as if lightning was going to strike me down, right then and there.

Still makes me chuckle.

Exactly... and I don't want to treat people whom I don't share beliefs with in this manner... I want to be more respectful... and the point of this thread was to find ways to do so.

[phee]

I don't think speaking your mind is bashing.....I like your point of view. And we are not on the same path so......who cares? Its refreshing. :peanutbutterjellytime

Phee, your always nice when you post.....very politically correct.....but get your point across. Whoever said this wants things their way all the time so don't worry about it.

Thankyou.... :blushing

And to those of you who have disagreed with the manner of my posts... thankyou for your input as well

[Fierce Critter]

Hmmm... How to keep this about Phee and not turn this into a post about myself... Hmm...

Well, can't. So la di da.

Anyhow, Phee - I don't think you Christian bash so much as you, and others, put Christians on a spot of defending themselves that really seriously reminds me of the biblical moment where Pilate gets in Jesus's face and tries to get him to condemn himself by calling himself "King".

This happens at the expense of people like Steven often. And it makes me uncomfortable.

I personally try to come "at" Steven in a less confrontational manner, and I know I myself am not always successful.

But some people seem to just try their damndest to corner him and make him throw his hands up, give up, and give in.

A lot of people seem to forget that a very, very huge part of Christianity - actually, now that I think about it, ANY religion/faith/spirituality/whathaveyou - involves a heaping helping of faith. To have conviction about one's chosen/found/applied religion/faith/etc/yadda yadda, it takes faith.

And faith is something that is really, really hard to defend without scientific data/proof/facts to back it up.

Personally, I find it ludicrous to challenge what a person has faith in. I can challenge what they choose to do as far as forcing that faith on others (fundamentalist conservatives telling us who we can and cannot marry, that sort of thing), and that's where I personally start to lose objectivity and start feeling like Christian-bashing myself. I try not to.

And this is where I think some people also fall into Christian-bashing. Truth be told, a lot of strife has come from Christians forcing their faith on others. Be it witch-burning/-hanging, enacting laws that basically stem from their world-view and not necessarily that of common sense or acceptance of that which isn't part of one's dogma. Frankly, I have sat back and thought some Christian-bashing was overdue because of these sorts of things. How many pagans of the same time periods can be called to task for inflicting their faith on humanity in such invasive ways? How many pagans today are willing to stand up for their personal freedoms when fundamentalists are in positions to declare their faith invalid and "not a religion?"

And that came from President Bush.

That's freaking scary to me. As a person who tries to see the validity in all the world's religions, pagans don't scare me the way Christians do in this regard. THerefore, part of me wants to see Christians questioned, and challenged, and called to task to separate personal faith from public welfare.

But I don't think putting a single man in front of a tribunal and haranguing him with challenges is the way to go about it.

Reminds me too much of those scenes in Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell. And the reciting of the Passion in church when I was a kid when we in the pews had to play the role of those who questioned Jesus, challenging him in saying, "Are you not Jesus Christ, King of the Jews?"

I'm not a Christian. I may be rediscovering some comfort from my Catholic roots. But I still hold a worldview that is too accepting to proclaim myself a full-on Christian. I am, however, a Jesusian. And I like some aspects of the Christianity that came as a result of the man having lived and died as he did. I respect Christianity, and try to act/behave like it. I only get my hackles up with a Christian doesn't respect others and their rights to believe as they do.

I really believe that's what happens here. Not just from Phee, either.

I think I've spewed semi-coherently, heh?

[Guest Game of Chance]

Exactly... and I don't want to treat people whom I don't share beliefs with in this manner... I want to be more respectful... and the point of this thread was to find ways to do so.

That's great.

I'd rather just be honest, though. Especially if someone (christian or not) is spewing bullshit out of their mouth without a clue on the topic at hand.

[jadnifer]

*SIGH*

Okay, I dont usually read the religion topics that are posted because sometimes that can cause problems. Now that I see that in most instances it is handled in a mature manner, there is no reason NOT to read them in the future.

As far as you Christian bashing, Phee, I couldnt see you doing it. You are always respectful to people, even if you dont necessarily agree with their viewpoint. I couldnt see you changing your entire outlook on things when it comes to talking about religion. But like I said above, I dont read the religion posts that often.

Just so you guys know where Im coming from, let me tell you. Im a Christian. Im not afraid to admit it Im not afraid to talk about it. Im not afraid to show it. Im also NOT afraid to get into a debate about it. Of course, there are a lot of things about it that I dont necessarily know all that much about, but I am still learning. The main thing is that I believe in The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit (also known as the trinity).

Another thing though. If I was ever in a religion debate, I HAVE never and WILL never condemn someone else for what they believe. Actually conversations like that interest me VERY much and I really like to know all aspects of someones religion that differs from mine. As long as they will give me the same courtesy, I dont mind them asking questions about my faith or why I feel that way. As long as they dont mind if i direct the questions back at them.

As far as when Phee posted that a missionary told him or asked rather didnt he know that he was going to hell." THAT IS WRONG. I have never once EVER told anyone that they were going to go to hell because they werent a Christian. That is contradicting everything that I believe in. I am not in a position to judge anyone, let alone telling them that they are going to hell. I wouldnt tell anyone that because i would be contradicting my belief that you arent going to hell based on your faith. That is outright judgement.

Christian bashing in general as I would call it is actually coming right out and saying that christians are wrong for what they believe in and shouldnt believe it. With no basis on making that statement. Even with a basis, I dont think that its right to attack someone on that basis. Having an intelligent conversation about it, that Im all for. Personally attacking someone is when someone comes up to you and tells you that youre crazy putting your faith in whatever it is that you put your faith in. Myself, I have NEVER done this. You could worship dogs and I would still talk to you. I would be VERY interested in talking to you CIVIALLY about WHY you worshipped dogs, however.

As for my religion itself, I guess I would tell you that I dont really have one. Yes, I consider myself a Christian but not a certain religion, such as Catholic or Lutheran. The reason for that is the fact that I dont fully believe EVERYTHING that the particular religions teach. Thats why it wouldnt be right to just join a church and say that I believe everything when I really dont. That is why I attend a non-denominational Christian church.

As far as being "goth" and being a Christian, I am sure that there are people out there that think I am a devil-worshipper because of that. The thing is, they are too closed minded to actually talk to me and find out that indeed im a Christian. Now Im not extreme with being "goth" although I would look to be a bit more extreme with it then I currently am, just dont have the funds. I let people think what they want. If they want to know the truth, they can talk to me. If they are too scared too, oh well, their loss.

That is why when I sit down and a conversation turns theological I like to have it be intelligent. If you dont know what you are talking about, dont try to pretend that you do. I really dont know the first thing about the Islamic religion. Im not going to have a conversation with them that includes me trying to tell them about their religion, when in all reality I know squat.

As far as being on this board and being a Christian, I have found out that yes I probably am part of the minority. That doesnt bother me. In fact, it kind of intrigues me because now I will be able to find out more about what others believe in. If I think that I was being bashed in any way personally or otherwise, I would bring it to that persons attention. If it didnt stop, well then Im not sure what I would do, but that situation hasnt presented itself, so I guess I dont have to think about it right now.

Sorry that this post turned out to be so long....but I really did have a lot to say on the topic.

[Guest Game of Chance]

That is why when I sit down and a conversation turns theological I like to have it be intelligent. If you dont know what you are talking about, dont try to pretend that you do. I really dont know the first thing about the Islamic religion. Im not going to have a conversation with them that includes me trying to tell them about their religion, when in all reality I know squat.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[phee]

*SIGH*

Okay, I dont usually read the religion topics that are posted because sometimes that can cause problems. Now that I see that in most instances it is handled in a mature manner, there is no reason NOT to read them in the future.

As far as you Christian bashing, Phee, I couldnt see you doing it. You are always respectful to people, even if you dont necessarily agree with their viewpoint. I couldnt see you changing your entire outlook on things when it comes to talking about religion. But like I said above, I dont read the religion posts that often.

Just so you guys know where Im coming from, let me tell you. Im a Christian. Im not afraid to admit it Im not afraid to talk about it. Im not afraid to show it. Im also NOT afraid to get into a debate about it. Of course, there are a lot of things about it that I dont necessarily know all that much about, but I am still learning. The main thing is that I believe in The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit (also known as the trinity).

Another thing though. If I was ever in a religion debate, I HAVE never and WILL never condemn someone else for what they believe. Actually conversations like that interest me VERY much and I really like to know all aspects of someones religion that differs from mine. As long as they will give me the same courtesy, I dont mind them asking questions about my faith or why I feel that way. As long as they dont mind if i direct the questions back at them.

As far as when Phee posted that a missionary told him or asked rather didnt he know that he was going to hell." THAT IS WRONG. I have never once EVER told anyone that they were going to go to hell because they werent a Christian. That is contradicting everything that I believe in. I am not in a position to judge anyone, let alone telling them that they are going to hell. I wouldnt tell anyone that because i would be contradicting my belief that you arent going to hell based on your faith. That is outright judgement.

Christian bashing in general as I would call it is actually coming right out and saying that christians are wrong for what they believe in and shouldnt believe it. With no basis on making that statement. Even with a basis, I dont think that its right to attack someone on that basis. Having an intelligent conversation about it, that Im all for. Personally attacking someone is when someone comes up to you and tells you that youre crazy putting your faith in whatever it is that you put your faith in. Myself, I have NEVER done this. You could worship dogs and I would still talk to you. I would be VERY interested in talking to you CIVIALLY about WHY you worshipped dogs, however.

As for my religion itself, I guess I would tell you that I dont really have one. Yes, I consider myself a Christian but not a certain religion, such as Catholic or Lutheran. The reason for that is the fact that I dont fully believe EVERYTHING that the particular religions teach. Thats why it wouldnt be right to just join a church and say that I believe everything when I really dont. That is why I attend a non-denominational Christian church.

As far as being "goth" and being a Christian, I am sure that there are people out there that think I am a devil-worshipper because of that. The thing is, they are too closed minded to actually talk to me and find out that indeed im a Christian. Now Im not extreme with being "goth" although I would look to be a bit more extreme with it then I currently am, just dont have the funds. I let people think what they want. If they want to know the truth, they can talk to me. If they are too scared too, oh well, their loss.

That is why when I sit down and a conversation turns theological I like to have it be intelligent. If you dont know what you are talking about, dont try to pretend that you do. I really dont know the first thing about the Islamic religion. Im not going to have a conversation with them that includes me trying to tell them about their religion, when in all reality I know squat.

As far as being on this board and being a Christian, I have found out that yes I probably am part of the minority. That doesnt bother me. In fact, it kind of intrigues me because now I will be able to find out more about what others believe in. If I think that I was being bashed in any way personally or otherwise, I would bring it to that persons attention. If it didnt stop, well then Im not sure what I would do, but that situation hasnt presented itself, so I guess I dont have to think about it right now.

Sorry that this post turned out to be so long....but I really did have a lot to say on the topic.

Thank all of you for the intelligent responses

[Slept with ghost]

ive never seen phee bashing anything

he has his own opinion on things and speaks his voice

taking offence to that is in some ways just bashing people who have opinions

there are alot of diffrent belifes out there and people just have to find whats right for them and stick with that

but they dont need to get up in arms when somebody else tells what they think in some cases it would be best to just listen because chances are good that you might just learn something

[BrassFusion]

Phee bashed my beliefs once... it was great.

[phee]

Phee bashed my beliefs once... it was great.

Heh

[Steven]

just hoping Phee, that you understand taht I was talking about my experiences here as a whole, I was not singeling you out, although I certainly respect your willingness to be open to constructive criticism.

and Critter.....thank you. Very much.

Steve

[phee]

just hoping Phee, that you understand taht I was talking about my experiences here as a whole, I was not singeling you out, although I certainly respect your willingness to be open to constructive criticism.

and Critter.....thank you. Very much.

Steve

Steve you are one of my favorite posters... and this is why I take special care to try to stop issues before they start

[Steven]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

this does apply .... to all of us.

[Fierce Critter]

and Critter.....thank you. Very much.

Steve

I know, sometimes, it doesn't look like it.

But I've got your back.

You're welcome.

[Paper Hearts]

I don't understand why anytime anyone who is not Christian talks about their beliefs, on this website, we always have people who want to argue with them. And I'm not sure why people who claim to have faith in Christ can't participate in these philosophical arguements, which they typically start from regular discussions anyway, without using the persecution card. And If someone is offended by something that wasn't meant to offend anyone, that's their fault. Who can care? What do we want Phee to say--"I'm sorry for my beliefs"? Does he need permission from a member of the church to question his society? It seems to me like we're treating everyone who isn't Christian like they're savages and stereotyping them all. Well, speaking only for myself, you're not going to teach me how to have faith by constantly referencing 'some book' called the Bible. I've read it, and I thought it was a shite read. If that torments anyone, I am not sorry. Instead, If you are offended by me, I recommend that you invent a way to enjoy being offended, because it's as much as I'll ever donate to your cause and more than I intended to give you.

[BrassFusion]

That deserves more than an "amen."

Hosannah!

[jadnifer]

I don't understand why anytime anyone who is not Christian talks about their beliefs, on this website, we always have people who want to argue with them. And I'm not sure why people who claim to have faith in Christ can't participate in these philosophical arguements, which they typically start from regular discussions anyway, without using the persecution card. And If someone is offended by something that wasn't meant to offend anyone, that's their fault. Who can care? What do we want Phee to say--"I'm sorry for my beliefs"? Does he need permission from a member of the church to question his society? It seems to me like we're treating everyone who isn't Christian like they're savages and stereotyping them all. Well, speaking only for myself, you're not going to teach me how to have faith by constantly referencing 'some book' called the Bible. I've read it, and I thought it was a shite read. If that torments anyone, I am not sorry. Instead, If you are offended by me, I recommend that you invent a way to enjoy being offended, because it's as much as I'll ever donate to your cause and more than I intended to give you.

I am glad that you are saying how you feel about that. I dont condemn you or feel you are a bad person for that. Im not offended either. Not everyone believes as I do. I dont expect them to, either. If everyone was the same, this world would be a very boring place.

Believe me, if I ever became involved in one of the discussions, which is highly likely, i wouldnt pull out the persecution card. Come to think of it, I dont think that I have ever done that, in any situation.