National Identity

[HipsterDufus]

On September 11th, I've been thinking about patriotism and national pride. And I was just wondering to what extent do people feel that it affects them? Do you feel strongly about being an American? Does living here give you part of your identity? Do you feel like you could ever feel at home in another country? What values do you believe to be most important as an American?

Just curious.

I need to gather my thoughts and I'll eventually post my own feelings.

[phee]

Hard to say...

I like America... But it's kind of like watching someone you know and respect making a total ass of themselves (American Policy)... and others watching and knowing you are with them (The rest of the world)...

[Shade Everdark]

These days, when I think about national identity, particularly in the context of American identity, or patriotism, only one phrase comes to my mind: jingoistic malarky. Seriously, having studied the culture and language, I feel closer (even six years out) to the Japanese cultural identity than I do to the American national identity.

[Scary Guy]

There is an old saying that goes "love your country, hate your government". Personally, I hate both and considder myself to just be an earthling.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

To me, this is like asking someone how much they like thier family. Some, for what ever reason, are going to hate it no matter what. Others, are going to love it.

I happen to love my family. Even the ones who need a good beating.

[Hellion]

:devil In my opinion theres the true American,and then theres the typical American.

The True American is respectful and tries to do good, and will work hard for there money. the typical American is usually an asshole or a moron who expects everything to be handed to them without working for it.I have heard several people discussing this subject at one of the metal clubs I hang out at.

[Msterbeau]

For whatever reason... the word patriotism is attached (In my mind) to a group of people i would rather not be in the same room with. We're all damn lucky to have been born here, it has many amazing positive things.. but in the end, we could have been born anywhere. We're all human. Why can't we live from that point of view instead of feeling good about some arbitrary line in the sand?

[Hellion]

For whatever reason... the word patriotism is attached (In my mind) to a group of people i would rather not be in the same room with. We're all damn lucky to have been born here, it has many amazing positive things.. but in the end, we could have been born anywhere. We're all human. Why can't we live from that point of view instead of feeling good about some arbitrary line in the sand?

Right on Marc.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Because we are in fact human. And the human mind uses label to think. We are also pack animals. At least, we were at some point in time. We still tend to be drawn to people like us and identifiy with people like us.

[Head Wreck]

i'm welsh.

those who seen me drink shall know how my identity effects me

[phee]

i'm welsh.

those who seen me drink shall know how my identity effects me

Heh

[Troy Spiral (13)]

From a purely ethical standpoint i usually consider myself a citizen of "earth" not of any particular nation.

But in practice, i tend to get defensive when people try to be overly negative about the U.S. so i must have some built-in patriotism somehwere.

Also i think people take things we have in the U.S. (and the west in general) for granted, and a lot of their negativity comes from a lack of perspective (historical and sociopolitical).

I cant say its "pride" since i had jack shit to do with the formation of the USA, me being lucky enough to be randomly born here doesn't give me any right to say i "made" anything we have. But i do lets say "appreciate" what we have here very much and sometimes lose patience with people that think its so horrible here.

The Sept 11 events had no effect on my patriotism or lack thereof. I have been following and researching the subject fairly regularly though. Not trying to say i dont "care" just didn't effect my "pride" in the usa one way or the other.

Crap i missing that made for TV movie right now. *poof*

[Steven]

I'm happy to live here. I feel fortunate to do so.

I realize that every time I visit Mexico. And I shudder a bit, because I have family there still (my grandmother just sold her house in Rosarito), and I could have easily been born there. It IS, much better here. Even when I've gone there on drunken idiot weekends with friends, I always had a bit of an edge to me, its hard to me to completely relax there.

Also, I'm a vet. A proud one. I know everybody has their opinions on soldiering, especially nowadays. But I did the gig. And yes, it does something to you. And I'm thankful for the experience.

[Vater Araignee]

The last time somebody called me an American was before 9-11, I actually spit Moose Head in his face for it.

Then I said "Don't lump me in with you and the Mexicans, I'm a U.S. Citizen." I was promptly thrown out of Changes by Night and haven't been back to Canaduh since.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The last time somebody called me an American was before 9-11, I actually spit Moose Head in his face for it.

Then I said "Don't lump me in with you and the Mexicans, I'm a U.S. Citizen." I was promptly thrown out of Changes by Night and haven't been back to Canaduh since.

Wow that seems ... er a bit hostile no?

[The Kanuck]

There is an old saying that goes "love your country, hate your government". Personally, I hate both and considder myself to just be an earthling.

Too bad more people did not think that, world would probably be alot better off if we all did.

The last time somebody called me an American was before 9-11, I actually spit Moose Head in his face for it.

Then I said "Don't lump me in with you and the Mexicans, I'm a U.S. Citizen." I was promptly thrown out of Changes by Night and haven't been back to Canaduh since.

What is so wrong with being an American? What do you expect for having American in your countries name? No one goes around saying, "I am not Canadian I am a Candian Citizen" You have American in your countries name and you are American and damn lucky to be. I would trade my shit for that shit anyday of the week.

Even though this is for the Americans in the group. I thought I would add something in.

I have lived so close to the American boarder that I have to have some sort of feelings towards you guys and I must say I am in the same lines as "love thy country, not thy government" Even here in Canada I am the same way, governments 9 times out of 10 fuck things up. I just think it sucks though that it took a devistating thing like 9/11 to make a country come together more as a people. It also infact did have the ripple effect over here in Canada and we too have come closer together.

[HipsterDufus]

I've been having a hard time myself with this question. I know that if I had been born somewhere else in the world, I'd probably be a very different person (skinnier at least!). However, I like being an American. I like the freedoms that it affords me (at least for now) and the opportunities that living in this country can bring. It seems to me that the brash, independent parts of my personality are due, at least in some part, to living in this country. And I am very proud of those aspects of my personality.

I do share many common values with the American ideal: ingenuity, freedom, bluntness, independence. And I do believe that these values are built into a great majority of Americans' psyches. I am also proud of that; that I live in a country where people value these things.

However, I do believe that there is nothing about being an American that makes me better than any of the rest of the world. I feel that I have virtually nothing in common with the people who buy American flag t-shirts because it shows just how patriotic they are. The mindless patriotism and blind devotion that a portion of this country shows is such a betrayal (to me) of the values of the founders of this country.

We should always be questioning, discussing, and debating. To me, that is what this country is founded on. My belief in this ideal does tell me that I want to better this country and that I believe in it.

[Paper Hearts]

I don't feel a comradeship with anyone else simply because they and I are Americans. We are society founded on words rather than actions, really, and although I do feel a connection with many of those words, I more often feel a disconnect with what our society has actually been. I suppose that in truth, the words that we've sought to design ourselves by are shared ideas that many other places have made their mandates as well as we have, I don't assume that humanism belongs to certain latitudes and longitudes...and so I'd feel the same, politically speaking, anywhere else. The ideals are mine and humanity's, together, no matter where we are put. Remembering, for example that Americans mainly are an immigrant peoples rather than a social enigma and recalling that why we have a separate status is something that belongs to the long ago past.

I do consider that there may be other countries that hold those precepts more dear that are part of my person and perhaps culturally I would be more comfortable elsewhere as result. But I think that whoever said 'love it or leave it', should be kicked straight in the face. -Not that I believe that a perfect society is achievable but just that dissent is the best weapon civility has.

I don't believe, for instance, that the opportunity to be, without warrant, captured for "strange" phone and/or travel records and to be flown off in secrecy to a place where you are held and tortured indefinitely and perhaps eventually tried without notice of evidence against you, would represent good or better security...instead, it's a regression.

[Fierce Critter]

I want to throw out a quick note to address part of the question(s) above.

I went to Washington D.C. for the first time ever about 4 years ago.

I have never felt true "patriotism" until I went there.

I love this country. And I really, really wish everybody in it was given one free pass at birth to be taken to the capital when they reach an age of "consciousness".

More later.

[Hellion]

There is an old saying that goes "love your country, hate your government". Personally, I hate both and considder myself to just be an earthling.

I agree with that 100%,IMAO

[Vater Araignee]

Wow that seems ... er a bit hostile no?

It was a bit over a decade ago, I was being talked down to because of my citizenship and I was on my fourth pitcher.

I would go back if I had the time and I threw the Canaduh in for soothsa... um Derrrr Nister.

Too bad more people did not think that, world would probably be alot better off if we all did.

What is so wrong with being an American? What do you expect for having American in your countries name? No one goes around saying, "I am not Canadian I am a Candian Citizen" You have American in your countries name and you are American and damn lucky to be. I would trade my shit for that shit anyday of the week.

In... that is the key word, IN your name. How would you like it if you where extremely in love with the concept of your country and we lived in North Canada and your country was called "United Provinces of Canada". In theory that would make me a Canadian and you wouldn't like being lumped in with me like that.

You see technically a Canadian, Mexican, Brazilian, Bolivian, Peruvian, Colombian, Argentinean bla bla bla are all Americans and then some are North Americans and some are South Americans.

The name of my country is not America it is "United States of America". ( and some morons think it is "The United States of America" but that's beside my point)

Now when you consider that a (see above) is also an american and it just sounds stupid to call us United States Americans and slightly less by truncating it to U.S. Americans the best alternative is the simplest one, U.S. Citizen.

U.S.A. Citizen is also a slightly less acceptable alternative, because it doesn't come out of the mouth as quickly..

yü es 'A yü es 'A yü es 'A

[Liberal Larry]

Bush used the stolen platform of his politically-biased weekly radio address to lash out at critics of his Domestic Spying Program on Saturday, strongly insisting that he is NOT listening in on the phone conversations of ordinary Americans.

Gosh. I guess we're just not interesting enough for you, Shrub. I guess the lives of ordinary Americans are far too boring for an important man such as yourself to even be bothered with. Obviously, you’d rather listen to what Osama Bin Laden has to say than the wants and needs that millions of average and below-average Americans express through their telephones every day. You're outta here in a couple years anyway, right? It's best to just ignore us and go right on catering to your Big Oil Buddies.

I haven’t been this ticked off since the FBI admitted they don’t really give a damn that I read an unusual amount of Judith Krantz. But I shouldn’t be surprised by Bush’s indifference, I guess. After all, this is the same man who slammed the White House door in Mother Sheehan’s face, and publicly confessed that he had no intention of ever seeing Brokeback Mountain. What does he care about the lives of ordinary Americans? Why would he want to waste his time listening to us? He’s far too busy waging his illegal and immoral War on Terror to be concerned with Aunt Gertrude’s recipe for crab bisque.

[Homicidalheathen]

Most of the time I am embarressed to be one. Have only traveled internationally twice but both times I just felt people looked at me and treated me like I was one of those 'spoiled americans with an attitude' and they are probably right.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I want to throw out a quick note to address part of the question(s) above.

I went to Washington D.C. for the first time ever about 4 years ago.

I have never felt true "patriotism" until I went there.

mmmm....DC.

The last time I was there, the FBI men were running around the mall in their tight little FBI t-shirts, with their big bulging muscles and they were sweating, and I suddenly had an urge to go rob a bank.

On a more serious note, I completely agree with you. I felt so much like I was a part of something when I was there. It's a very, very cool place.