Thou Shalt Not Take The Name Of The Lord In Vain

[sass_in_the_pants]

All these years, ever since I was little I thought it meant that you shouldn't say things like "God dammit, that hurt!" or "Holy flying fuck, do I look fat in this!" or any of the other charming expletives that flow so readily from my pretty little lips.

All these years...

And I thought it was kind of silly, y'know, I mean you lay down TEN rules, only ten, and one of them is that I can't say "Jesus Fucking Christ"? I mean, surely God knows that I don't ACTUALLY mean that. It's just a thing that people say, like "Hello, how are you?" when really no one cares how you are. I admit, it's crass and all around disrespectful, but a sin? Oh, well, I always thought, that's what they say, and I have bigger faults to worry about so I'll just keep saying "oh my God! Did you see that SLUT?" and not worry about it.

But right now I'm reading some stuff by C.S. Lewis and he says...fuck it, I can't find it now, but in short, he says when they say "Don't take the name of the Lord in vain", they don't mean it to say "Don't use the name of God in a trivial manner" they mean "Don't use the name of God in an effort to serve your own vanity".

Um, DUH! Okay, that makes WAY more sense than MY interpretation of the whole thing.

My husband was reading his book and so I asked him what HE thought that meant. And he said "I always thought it meant, like, Jerry Falwell who tells you to give him money to make God happy, when really, God doesn't give a flying fuck if you give Jerry money. It means don't do things that serve your OWN self-interest and claim that you are doing God's work"

And I said "That's what CS Lewis says! Did you know this the whole time?"

And he said "Yeah, doesn't everybody?"

Um, NO!

Am I the only person who thought this? All these years...all these years...okay, it's not like I've lessened my cussing in any way to follow this rule, as a matter of fact, I am working hard on a campaign to encourage MORE cussing, but I've always felt bad about it. All these years...I thought I was going to hell in THAT handbasket for sure, but it turns out that indeed I have other handbaskets to worry about.

I think this is like when I was a kid and INXS said

You want to make her

Suicide Blond

Love Devistation

Suicide Blond

and I thought they were saying:

You want to make it

Soup and Salad Bar

Love this Station

Soup and Salad Bar

And, furthermore, I would sing MY lyrics, and NO ONE corrected me. Sons of bitches. God, am I glad I can curse now! Fuckity fuck fuck. Oh, fuck, how I love cursing.

PS - Husband just returned home with Mucinex for me. It thins AND loosens mucus. Sweet!

PSS - Did I just threadjack my own post? Twice?

[BrassFusion]

Yours would be the popular interpretation... "in vain" meaning "to no purpose," in this particular context. Like, you shouldn't say "God damnit" because it's meaningless and offensive to God. Even back in the dark ages (well, early 20th century, by my reckoning), people would get all pissy if you only said, "God!!!" if you were frustrated. Or even "gosh."

Of course, as an agnostic, none of this applies to me.

GOD FUCK DIRTY SANCHEZ GHETTO SUPERSTAR!!

[Guest Game of Chance]

All these years, ever since I was little I thought it meant that you shouldn't say things like "God dammit, that hurt!" or "Holy flying fuck, do I look fat in this!" or any of the other charming expletives that flow so readily from my pretty little lips.

All these years...

And I thought it was kind of silly, y'know, I mean you lay down TEN rules, only ten, and one of them is that I can't say "Jesus Fucking Christ"? I mean, surely God knows that I don't ACTUALLY mean that. It's just a thing that people say, like "Hello, how are you?" when really no one cares how you are. I admit, it's crass and all around disrespectful, but a sin? Oh, well, I always thought, that's what they say, and I have bigger faults to worry about so I'll just keep saying "oh my God! Did you see that SLUT?" and not worry about it.

But right now I'm reading some stuff by C.S. Lewis and he says...fuck it, I can't find it now, but in short, he says when they say "Don't take the name of the Lord in vain", they don't mean it to say "Don't use the name of God in a trivial manner" they mean "Don't use the name of God in an effort to serve your own vanity".

Um, DUH! Okay, that makes WAY more sense than MY interpretation of the whole thing.

My husband was reading his book and so I asked him what HE thought that meant. And he said "I always thought it meant, like, Jerry Falwell who tells you to give him money to make God happy, when really, God doesn't give a flying fuck if you give Jerry money. It means don't do things that serve your OWN self-interest and claim that you are doing God's work"

And I said "That's what CS Lewis says! Did you know this the whole time?"

And he said "Yeah, doesn't everybody?"

Um, NO!

Am I the only person who thought this? All these years...all these years...okay, it's not like I've lessened my cussing in any way to follow this rule, as a matter of fact, I am working hard on a campaign to encourage MORE cussing, but I've always felt bad about it. All these years...I thought I was going to hell in THAT handbasket for sure, but it turns out that indeed I have other handbaskets to worry about.

I think this is like when I was a kid and INXS said

You want to make her

Suicide Blond

Love Devistation

Suicide Blond

and I thought they were saying:

You want to make it

Soup and Salad Bar

Love this Station

Soup and Salad Bar

And, furthermore, I would sing MY lyrics, and NO ONE corrected me. Sons of bitches. God, am I glad I can curse now! Fuckity fuck fuck. Oh, fuck, how I love cursing.

PS - Husband just returned home with Mucinex for me. It thins AND loosens mucus. Sweet!

PSS - Did I just threadjack my own post? Twice?

LOL...you fucking rule. Enough said.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Its meant to be a sign of respect.

For instance if i called out "niggers!!" in a room... i might not MEAN anything negative by it, its "just a word" but unfortunately people attach meaning to words.

I personally say things like "Jesus Christ" fairly often, but i don't go out of my way to irritate people that might take offence. No reason to.

Now i can understand if someone is consistently uptight about it and constantly correcting me that would get old pretty fast.

But, if i can lower somone's anxiety by just not using certian language from time to time, what the hell why not. Compassion wins out over some spiteful need to "exercise my right to say "god damnit"" because it might annoy me that they have a problem with it.

[Paper Hearts]

I just...no respect to anyone's beliefs...but from my perspective, I've yet to meet anyone who could truly be considered an expert on God. I mean, people always come along and demand "IT'S LIKE THIS", or "NO, IT'S LIKE THIS" and, yeah, that's strange to me. Either God is telling people different things or some of us...have opinions. For all we know, Tom Cruise could be right...or the Taliban. And wouldn't that be sucky?

[Steven]

i liked this post.

there are many things biblical Sass......that beg for a 2nd look and a deeper approach to understanding and application. Including the entire collection of "commandments" themselves....why, how, and for what purpose were they created....etc. It runs way deeper than just "this is what the bible says". We forget sometimes that there were/are specific purposes and timelines to what was written down....

and to Paperhearts - I've yet to meet anyone who is truly an expert on God either. Your totally right. Were all just men. He's God. I dont have a ladder that tall. I dont even bother trying to reach expert status - and to me those who assume that they have reached that are prideful and therefore impotent. I'm just here for the journey and whats revealed along the way. It never has had anything to do with who's "right"

[pharoh]

I just...no respect to anyone's beliefs...but from my perspective, I've yet to meet anyone who could truly be considered an expert on God. I mean, people always come along and demand "IT'S LIKE THIS", or "NO, IT'S LIKE THIS" and, yeah, that's strange to me. Either God is telling people different things or some of us...have opinions. For all we know, Tom Cruise could be right...or the Taliban. And wouldn't that be sucky?

Jim Baker had it right alll along lol

[Guest Game of Chance]

Not to threadjack, but I'm trying to understand this reality tunnel better.

"I don't have a ladder that tall."

Am I to understand that your belief system includes the premise that "god" is up in the sky somewhere on a throne and not in an alternate universe/reality called heaven?

Just curious...

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I'm trying to stay on topic but I'm not really 100% sure what the topic is heh. I guess i'll give myself a pass as long as i don't shift the whole gist of the thread.

C. S. Lewis I'm fairly familiar with. Hes a favorite name to bring up in apologetics lit as he's one of the handful of well known academics to convert from atheism to christianity. (He wrote The Cronicles Of Narnia and was buddies with JRR Tolkien among other well known figures of the time)

One of my key "hobbies" if you can call it that is the Meaning of Life question and lewis comes up a lot in various aspects of the discussion.

I think he was in the same boat that I'm in which is he wanted god to exist but was frustrated with the fact that basically he saw it as not realistic and wishful thinking until later in his life.

I think he had the same ability that i've slowly started to realize i have. That is, if i decide to believe something, i probably can convince myself of something one way or the other if i want to bad enough. Regardless of what my intellect tells me.

His book "Mere Christianity" was one of the key books creationists (nowadays called Intelligent Design advocates) was one of the key books apologists quoted a lot from. Random interesting fact about Lewis , he died on the exact same day as JFK and Adolus Huxley.

I think The Genesis Flood by John C. Whitcom and The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel have outshined it in recent times. They are easier reads and take modern science into account quite a bit more than Lewis did. I'd suggest these two books over lewis just becasue its much more accessable. Lewis is more romantic but not the easiest read in the world, and many of his arguments are too easily refuted in light of some more recent science that The Genesis Flood and The Case For Christ do take into account in their arguments.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Not to threadjack, but I'm trying to understand this reality tunnel better.

"I don't have a ladder that tall."

Am I to understand that your belief system includes the premise that "god" is up in the sky somewhere on a throne and not in an alternate universe/reality called heaven?

Just curious...

Im guessing he didnt mean it that way. Just an expression.

[Paper Hearts]

My opinion is always far less valid because I don't believe in God, but, if I were allowed to speculate like people who do believe in god, well, if I were God, I wouldn't care if people took my name in vain. & I would not live in a different universe, I would live in the sky, but I would not have a throne. But that's not to say that I wouldn't have a sweet living room set.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

If you buy into the idea that the true "mind of god" (the christian god) is not totally understandable by man... thus you just have faith that his word is in your best interest. The argument there is, the boss is telling you want to do, you cant possiblily know everything he does, so you say yes sir how high sir until told otherwise. Aguments of any sort .. baiscly can be viewed as invalid becasue of this intial premise.

He knows best, we dont, dont understand? To bad we get to suck it up.... at that point theres no "reasoning" nessisary as the boss knows best, argument over. (also have to assume you know what the boss is actually telling you to do)

Not that I buy into that, just a fairly difficult thing to argue against with somone that has real "faith."

(this is the part were people start getting pissed off heh.. i hope we can keep this one civil)

[Paper Hearts]

I would be invisible until people died, and then I'd be like, "Yo". And then like my whole house would be sweet, y'know? -Swimmin' pool shaped like a G, basketball court, my own recordin' studio. And then I'd show you my bedroom and be like, "This is where all the magic happens.", and then I would do some magic. In the garage? -Ferrari. Bam! -Ferrari! -Bam! Ferrari. -Three of um. And a Rolls Royce chillin' up in there.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I've been getting to many complaints from longtime posters about hardcore threadjacking like that. Please dont make me get any more PMs about how i need to be harsher with people that do it heh.

[Rayne]

I would be invisible until people died, and then I'd be like, "Yo". And then like my whole house would be sweet, y'know? -Swimmin' pool shaped like a G, basketball court, my own recordin' studio. And then I'd show you my bedroom and be like, "This is where all the magic happens.", and then I would do some magic. In the garage? -Ferrari. Bam! -Ferrari! -Bam! Ferrari. -Three of um. And a Rolls Royce chillin' up in there.

As for the threadjacking, if people don't want to read it, they don't have to ... they can skip over it.

[Homicidalheathen]

Actually......the budhists agree.....watch what you say. Not just saying a gurus name in vain as saying ones name brings good vibes to you......just swearing......brings negative vibes to you.

Your not suppose to talk in anger.

Kinda like the water experiment......it does effect all around you and brings certain things to you.

I however, swear allot.

I did practice the watch what you say and do...even hand actions for awhile and I swear, my life did go more smoothly. I felt better.

But I had an easy job at the time and wasn't very busy in my personal life. It was so easy to be good then. I am so frustrated and busy these days I give in easy. I do plan to get back to it.

[Paper Hearts]

I'm laughing. Alrgiht. Well, God doesn't tell me anything. I know it's strange. I'll admit it, I'm not a spiritual person, and I'm probably the only one who will admit that. I don't like herbalism, alchemy, and I don't do astral projections, none of that stuff. But, if I had to guess, which seems to be the spirit of religion, I wouldn't guess either. In fact, I don't guess about any of it...It's just hilarious. I mean does he live in the sky? Another universe--what?? Is he picky about his name? Let's get back to that part about where he lives, because that was rich.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I'm down with about 80% of buddhism. Its pretty good. Some of the concepts are actually whats helping me keep my BS health issues in check.

It doesn't jive with capitalism very well though. Will never catch on fully in the U.S.

Its too "calm". The west is about the struggle for "progress" and getting more. The eastern buddishst thing is about being happy with what you have.

Whos gonna vote for a politician that says "be happy with what you have , you don't need anything". Hard sell.

[Steven]

Not to threadjack, but I'm trying to understand this reality tunnel better.

"I don't have a ladder that tall."

Am I to understand that your belief system includes the premise that "god" is up in the sky somewhere on a throne and not in an alternate universe/reality called heaven?

Just curious...

my ladder reference means that although I can acknowledge a need for, and the existence of "God", and I am in the current state of pursuing what I beleive is a relationship wtih siad "God" - he is GOD, and I'm not, nor am I close to that, as I am limited. And thereby being mortal and finite I am not an "expert" on the infinite and the immortal and that which is beyond my grasp.

In English: I'm saying nobody is 100% sure Steve. Not even me, not even you, not even Paper Hearts.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I thought the same thing Sass....still do.

Phrases like Oh My God,

and Holy Christ! to me are metaphores for Wow! did you see that? or Whoa! an expression of awe or suprise ...

Things like Jesus Fucking Christ, or God DAMMIT!

are expressions of anger....I think..."One should not give in to anger or be hot with anger"...which makes sense...anger is the root to evil...I suppose....when looking at it from the big picture.

I just say CRIPES! or Holy Moly...just because I think it is less offensive...

I believe in GOD, so I TRY to refrain from saying it....amongst other things, I try not to do to offend my maker....Seems like thats the last thing I should "work on..." after all, I have other sins that are more serious that that...IMO

Its hard not to use those phrases when its what you've heard and learned to say to express suprise, anger, awe, etc...

Is it vain? I think so....I mean (whatever your faith) to ask God to Damn somthing....seems trivial...especially when you say somethjing like GOD DAMN those muther Fuckers....cut me off...in essense..you are asking for those folks to be condemned by God to eternal punishment in hell JUST for cutting you off! That is some serious punishment for something so trivial.

We don't really mean THAT when we say that now do we? Not really...so we say it in vain...or say nothing of something...er....

I didn't write this, but it makes sense:

The commandment is primarily directed against the heart and the tongue. The heart is where a man's actions come forth from. If our heart is irreverent towards God, then we will use His name in vain, or in an unnoble fashion. And the heart controls the tongue. This commandment is a bridle for our tongues. It is the bit where God turns us onto His right path. The commandment is setting up a right attitude for the heart, and then consequently a right use for the tongue...

anyway...yeah.

[Paper Hearts]

I'm down with about 80% of buddhism. Its pretty good. Some of the concepts are actually whats helping me keep my BS health issues in check.

It doesn't jive with capitalism very well though. Will never catch on fully in the U.S.

Its too "calm". The west is about the struggle for "progress" and getting more. The eastern buddishst thing is about being happy with what you have.

Whos gonna vote for a politician that says "be happy with what you have , you don't need anything". Hard sell.

Doesn't Christ say basically the same thing though? Doesn't he say something like you should give up everything you have on Earth and that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven? Some people wil argue over in what context he was speaking when he said that, but if some one is into taking things in the Bible as litteral...I suppose that we should start building really big needles. Actually, I'm sure I saw that in a comedy sketch, maybe Kids In The Hall.

I don't understand how one gets to the point where they actually believe in God, let alone one interpretation over the next. And I'm speaking as someone that doesn't really even necessarilly believe in evolution or the big bang. I just can't get myself to that point.

It's not to say I haven't tried prayer. When my friend Noel was in the hospital for his motorcylce accident, well, he had about a 3% chance to survive and about a 97% chance to survice as a permenant vegetable. And, while he has a really crazy beard now, and a strange look in his eyes...and he loses his thoughts, in speaking, he's quite well, and the recovery only took him about 7 months. -But when he was fresh in the hospital, his mother asked me to pray for him, and so I thought, why not? And so I, one night issued a very general prayer telling "God" that no matter if "he" healed Noel or not, that I would never be able to say, but rather that "he", God, "himself", would know...and well, was it really such a stretch for "him", after all?.

And, I'm yet unsure. How would I say, 'yes, there is a "God", and deffinately it's the one mentioned in whatever old parchment scroll?

Do you know what I mean?

[torn asunder]

Let's get back to that part about where he lives, because that was rich.

he lives in you - in fact, he *is* you, and without that spark of life, you'd just be a big sack of biological goo that burns calories. the cool thing is, the part that makes you you, is the part that makes me me, and everyone else as well. that's why people can say that "we're all one, in (god/spirit/source/etc...) we are all actually individual facets of the same energy, imo. and as such, we should treat others as if they were us, because they really are!

:fear

[Paper Hearts]

Okay, I'm really dumb. I have no idea what 'imo' means.

Anyway, It is possible that God, or possibly several gods live in me. It's probably more possible that way or he living in the sky, than he or they living in a alternate dimension. At least we can see ourselves and the sky. It's just more anylitical, whatever that's worth. But I still just don't believe any of it. I don't know how anyone gets to that point.

[phee]

IMO = In My Opinion

[torn asunder]

imo = in my opinion...

my issue with religion is that it aims at separation from deity, when in reality (ok, my reality) there is no separation between me (or you, or them) and god. we're all one...