Okay, I'm Officially Sick Of This

[HipsterDufus]

So, people who've been around long enough may remember my rant last year at Christmas time about how we had an office Christmas party where we were all forced to listen to a fairly conversion-oriented prayer. This morning was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, and I need to rant again. My boss started coming around to the different cubicles (all occupied by church-going women), asking them if they wanted a CD of sermons given by the preacher at her church. As she's going around, I keep thinking to myself, "Please, don't let her come to my desk. I don't want anyone here to know that I don't believe in this stuff." But, of course, she came to my desk. She had obviously burned enough copies of these sermons for everyone in my office... including me. So she comes around and says, "I have one last copy! Would you like it, Eric?" Of course, this is in front of all the other ladies in my office, but, being the idiot that I am, I decided not to sacrifice my principals and said, "No thanks." There's an awkward moment of silence in the entire office. My boss leaves. So, this must really make me look great in front of my boss and my coworkers. Admittedly, this incidence alone might seem somewhat trivial to you guys, but let's compound this with the fact that we have a prayer board up in my office, there is almost daily discussion of Christian "rock", books, and sermons in my office, and my boss came around during the '04 election asking people to vote for Bush. Ummm, yeah, not the friendliest office environment for me to work in. I basically already know what to expect from the Christians on the board. Something along the lines of, "freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion." I still don't believe that my company is paying people to practice their religion at work. Otherwise, I guess I should go around passing out "The Antichrist" by Nietzsche. Man, I wish it was easier to find a job in Michigan...

Rant done.

[Draco1958]

Personally it wouldn't bother me if I was asked if I wanted a copy. However I agree a prayer board and religious pamplets and such on a bulletin board is a bit much. Co-workers want to have a private discussion of religion wouldn't bother me, trying to force me into the conversation by trying to pull me into it would. I don't feel the workplace should be used that way. But to be fair, I don't feel I should be subjected to a personal conversation about their personal lives when I am trying to perform my job. I don't need to hear about what who did to who etc.

[Msterbeau]

From all the corporate videos I've had to watch with respect to hostile work environments, discrimination, etc.... I'd say they're over the line. By constantly evangelizing their religion (It could be any religion) they're making you feel completely uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to worry about that. The question is: Do you care about your job and sanity enough to do something about it? You have three choices; Stay and remain silent, stay and work to have this behavior removed, or leave and find a more neutral workplace. You should probably do a little research and see where you stand legally.

[HipsterDufus]

From all the corporate videos I've had to watch with respect to hostile work environments, discrimination, etc.... I'd say they're over the line. By constantly evangelizing their religion (It could be any religion) they're making you feel completely uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to worry about that. The question is: Do you care about your job and sanity enough to do something about it? You have three choices; Stay and remain silent, stay and work to have this behavior removed, or leave and find a more neutral workplace. You should probably do a little research and see where you stand legally.

Indeed. I REALLY want another job. I received my A+ certification for working on computers in August, but so far the search has been rather fruitless. I just applied for another job yesterday. However, the frequency of entry-level desktop support positions coming up in GR is once every 2 weeks or so. That means that every desktop support technician who wants a job in GR is applying for that ONE job that comes up on careerbuilder/monster/the local paper. It's stiff competition.

It's just easier to say nothing for now. If this were a place where I wanted to make my career, I'd fight it out, but it's just a stop along the way (at least, I hope). We'll see.

[phee]

Move back to us!!!

[Homicidalheathen]

My second to the last boss did the same thing....well with politics anyway. She actually had the nerve to say......I prefer to work with people who are smart enough to know Bush is the better canidate.....how are YOU voting?

And the Cristian thing too.....but don't expect it to go away anytime soon. I usually just bite my tounge.

[HipsterDufus]

I feel better now that I vented. It just seems like everyone who I work with expects me to share the same beliefs and ideals with them. It's really awkward.

I really need to find a different job though. Stupid Michigan economy.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

There isn't much you can do about it. Michigan is an "at will" state. That boils down to, you can leave if you don't like it. They can also fire you without having to give too much of a reason for it. You can go for hostile work enviroment... but you'll loose. You have no constitutional right to that job... they have a constitutional rights to practice their religion. There is no job requirment for the employee religions I assume... as that is aginst the law. Now, if your company was run by the government... then you would have a case.

[phee]

Amusingly enough JUST NOW I had a training about harrasment in the work place... and what you just described was almost word for word given as an example as harrasement in the workplace...

[Paper Hearts]

Unfortunately, I remember these sort of things happening at my last office-

Inevitably, as soon as the office had consummated their managerial imposed prayer, the "congregation" would stampede over one another towards steaming platters of factory farmed animal products prepared with gas station accommodations counter like precision. It was in this way that they observed the grace of their god. And they would suffocate each other for a dollop of macaroni salad if they had to, it was absolutely clear. -They were always curious as to why I never joined them--after all, who would pass up the opportunity to experience all the charm and flavor of an in-flight meal while on the convenience of solid ground? But I always declined.

It was the most harassing situation ever administered unto me. My only comfort came from the observation that my coworkers seemed to be as amateurish with religion as they were in their professions, and everything else.

[Msterbeau]

Hmmm... Interesting.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/harass/breadth.htm#POLITICAL

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/harass/

[HipsterDufus]

Thanks for the links, Msterbeau. See, I think that I would not have a case. The reason being is that I haven't actually made it an issue with my coworkers. I've never told them about my beliefs and I've never told them that what they're doing offends me. If I did tell them, and they kept on doing it, then I believe that I would have a case for religious harassment. I really hope that I don't have to spend the rest of my working life at this company, but if I do, I think I could potentially make it into an issue.

[kellygrrrrrl]

reminds of my last job....although it was weirder....

there was only 4 people in the office...

every Thursday I think it was ... we'd close the office down for an hour, and have Bible Study.

I didn't mind having the down thime, and that was around when I did my own soul searching,...it was enlightening...but not particularly what I believe...

I think we all did it just to have the down time honestly....

Then the guy moved out of state, and it stopped.

My boss was a former Alcoholic that got caught, did some serious proabtion, and fxcked up his marriage...was a strip clubber, dirty mouth, greedy, and would be the 1st to tell you.

I think after all the messing up, he wanted to find someting better, so he got all gung ho about it.

Whatever..

I would just humbly accept it and just keep to myself personally.

if I were in those shoes anyway.

But I'm pretty quiet about controversial subjects. I keep my mouth shut on a lot of things, cause I just don't share the same opinions. *shrugz*

[pharoh]

Good advice in here...

Two things you never discuss at work

Religion and Politics

Causes way more problems than what it's worth

[Homicidalheathen]

Or at family gatherings. Heh. It starts argumets at our family gatherings anyway. We have a very diverse family when it comes to both topics.

That doesn't leave much to talk about so I stay silent allot.....then people think I am being unsocial. You just can't win.

[HipsterDufus]

Good advice, pharoh and HH. =) Thanks for giving me a place to vent. It's odd how a little ranting and raving to some friends can make things better.

[Steven]

There isn't much you can do about it. Michigan is an "at will" state. That boils down to, you can leave if you don't like it. They can also fire you without having to give too much of a reason for it. You can go for hostile work enviroment... but you'll loose. You have no constitutional right to that job... they have a constitutional rights to practice their religion. There is no job requirment for the employee religions I assume... as that is aginst the law. Now, if your company was run by the government... then you would have a case.

I actually disagree with this.

if the organization you work for is not a "public" christian entity such as say....World Vision or soemthign like that, then you should not have to be subjected to religeous pressure. Therefore if your getting harrassed, you have a case. To me it doesent sound like your getting harrassed, but it DOES sound like a lot if insensitivity and poor judgement is going on. Still - since its a public environment, dont let your butt pucker when you have the opportunity to say no thanks.

[Steven]

Thanks for the links, Msterbeau. See, I think that I would not have a case. The reason being is that I haven't actually made it an issue with my coworkers. I've never told them about my beliefs and I've never told them that what they're doing offends me. If I did tell them, and they kept on doing it, then I believe that I would have a case for religious harassment. I really hope that I don't have to spend the rest of my working life at this company, but if I do, I think I could potentially make it into an issue.

thats the key.

why dont you tell them?

[Steven]

Unfortunately, I remember these sort of things happening at my last office-

Inevitably, as soon as the office had consummated their managerial imposed prayer, the "congregation" would stampede over one another towards steaming platters of factory farmed animal products prepared with gas station accommodations counter like precision. It was in this way that they observed the grace of their god. And they would suffocate each other for a dollop of macaroni salad if they had to, it was absolutely clear. -They were always curious as to why I never joined them--after all, who would pass up the opportunity to experience all the charm and flavor of an in-flight meal while on the convenience of solid ground? But I always declined.

It was the most harassing situation ever administered unto me. My only comfort came from the observation that my coworkers seemed to be as amateurish with religion as they were in their professions, and everything else.

your always such a pleasure to read, Paper....

[Hellion]

No one at my work discusses this crap at all,not even politics,the only things ever discussed are things about what parts to do and whats going on, the following weekend.

Yeah IMO religion should always be kept out of the work place,and any other public places

that are not a church,like George Carlin said,"Keep thy religion to thyself"

and keep it within the walls of the church,like it was meant to be.

[Der Nister]

It's typical that religeous wackos (insert religion here) think that a) everyone wants to join them and b) that somehow they are saving people (i.e. none believers) from ourselves and certain doom.

I say that forcing one's beliefs on others is a violation in of itself and is wrong.

Hell, get it over with and just wear some satanic like slogan on your shirt. They'll soon get the mesage to leave you alone.

[Nienna]

Where I work you literally have to RUN from the owner to avoid getting enmeshed in his religious fanaticism. If you leave or complain, you are fired. Period. I've seen it happen.

So in other words, I feel for you. Try to get out asap. I know how hard it is in GR, I moved from there myself last May because of the intense religous atmosphere of that area and the general lack of anything resembling a job. I still miss Mulligans and my little hole in "the hill" though!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The company is still private. It's not a government body. Congress shall make no law... Banning religion for the public cant happen. I forget though, the Constitution is invalid when it doesn't back up the Liberal cause.

I dont see harrasment. Noone is forcing or trying to force anything on you. They are asking you to part of something. You are declining. You are also not telling them why your declining so they keep trying to include you.

They also have freedom of Speech. They can talk about who they are going to vote for. They can try to convince you to vote that way.

Why don't you just grow some balls and talk to them? You are the only one that can do anything about your situation. As long as your respectful and nice about it... they will most likely stop bringing stuff to you and offering you gifts. Infact, they will most likely leave you alone unless they have to talk to you about work related stuff. Or you could take the asshole route and demand they stop it all together. Threten to sue if they dont stop. Throw a real big hissy fit. Force everyone to act in a way that makes you happy. Fuckem... they dont need to be happy. Thier only stupid Christians anyway.

[Steven]

The company is still private. It's not a government body. Congress shall make no law... Banning religion for the public cant happen. I forget though, the Constitution is invalid when it doesn't back up the Liberal cause.

I dont see harrasment. Noone is forcing or trying to force anything on you. They are asking you to part of something. You are declining. You are also not telling them why your declining so they keep trying to include you.

They also have freedom of Speech. They can talk about who they are going to vote for. They can try to convince you to vote that way.

Why don't you just grow some balls and talk to them? You are the only one that can do anything about your situation. As long as your respectful and nice about it... they will most likely stop bringing stuff to you and offering you gifts. Infact, they will most likely leave you alone unless they have to talk to you about work related stuff. Or you could take the asshole route and demand they stop it all together. Threten to sue if they dont stop. Throw a real big hissy fit. Force everyone to act in a way that makes you happy. Fuckem... they dont need to be happy. Thier only stupid Christians anyway.

good post. the last line was my favorite (jk). but good points nonetheless. I find this opression interesting, it must be a mid west thign, because in California this "opression" that you speak of (and yet there seems to be an opposing no thank you adrress) would result in a lawsuit toot sweet. the laws of the land actually favor those feeling oppressed if you look at the trends. I think what happens out here is that so many are troubled in this difficult economy that they feel pressured to just "take it" and keep quiet. But you dont have to. You do have rights, you do have a voice. I'm a Christian, y'all know that. But I dont beleive in forcing anythign on anyone.

[pomba gira]

You have the legal right not to feel pressured or harassed by ANYTHING at work, whether it's religious beliefs or buying girl scout cookies. Contact the ACLU and/or labor relations board and find out exactly what the legality of all this is. I would say you definitely have a case, but then I'm not an attorney.

Of course only you can decide if standing up for your rights is worth the possible repercussions. Never an easy decision. While you're deciding, start documenting every offensive incident that occurs. Date, time, employees present, and exactly what was said or done. Documentation is CRUCIAL in any discrimination or harassment case. If you decide it's worthwhile and contact the ACLU or whoever, the first thing they'll want you to do is gather documentation. If you already have some, that will speed things up considerably.

s the boss the actual owner of the company, or a relative of the owner? Or is she just an employee? How large a company is it? If it's a large outfit they may have an employee relations department that you can go to. You should talk to her first, though- that way she can't say she was unaware of the problem. This is an important point whatever course of action you decide to take. Document the conversation in as much detail as possible. That way you'll have some legal recourse if there are repercussions. Say something like: "Ms. SusieQ, I don't want to be difficult but I really feel there is pressure to accept a specific set of religious beliefs here. This makes me very uncomfortable, and from conversations I've overheard I'm not the only one. I'm just wondering what we can do to make this a workplace where everyone can feel their beliefs are respected."

If you have very strong communication skills, you can even say something like "I'm concerned that someone who is offended may not bother to come and talk to you but may start some big legal to-do. I've heard of that happening in other companies and it's just not good for anyone involved. So I would hate to see anything like that happen here". Only try this one if you're absolutely sure you can carry it off- you MUST sound genuinely concerned and it cannot sound like a veiled threat.

I

And this is not about being Christian or anti-Christian or whatever- it's about the right to work in an environment of respect. I know some very devout Christians who find this kind of aggressive proselytizing highly offensive, and have actually spoken out in situations like this one.

Good luck whatever you decide!