Looks like Bush has won...

[torn asunder]

yes, it's been thoroughly enjoyable, a little enlightening, and not even a bit (to me) negative. thanks, everybody! :smiling:

[phee]

This just seemed appropriate

Headline from the Onion

Bush Does Victory Lap Around World Trade Center Site

[nodrew]

Persoanally, I'm getting extremely sick of all of the political talk. Mostly, because it seems like everyone ganging up on one or two people and those people getting extremely rabbid because of it.

[Bpage]

I don't like Bush, I didn't vote for him. I really didn't like Kerry either but he stood for more of my beliefs than Bush did.

I agree that we needed a stronger, better person to run against Bush. We needed someone we could believe in to vote for, not "anything but Bush".

Hopefully we'll get that in four years.

I'm more repulsed by the lack of support for gay marriage in this country.

Hopefully all of this anger people have will turn into some good, like going out and fighting for what you believe in, making your voice heard, not just bitching about it.

[Soulrev]

the biggest impact you can have is to show your daughter how to stand up for what you believe in, and not run away when things get difficult.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's exactly my point.. You can't just run away to Canada or some other country just because things might be rough for a little while.

To be honest I don't like some of the things Bush does either, but I definitely don't like Kerry. Kerry would raise taxes, Bush gave a tax cut. Yeah, the tax cut can be classified as a tax cut for "rich" people, however, it will affect me soon. I plan on starting a business, small businesses benefit from that tax cut. Kerry wanted to remove that tax cut, thus, I get to donate more money to the IRS. No thanks.

We've been over this before and, I am a firm believer in 2nd ammendment rights, which, Kerry would surely try to deny people the right to defend themselves.

However, Bush often tries to impose Christian beliefs into the law.. I am a Christian but I know there's a lot of people who aren't. And, I don't think that because two people are gay they shouldn't be allowed the same rights as straight people. I don't approve of marriage in the name of God, because according to the Bible, that's an abomination in God's eyes, however, I DO believe Gays deserve the rights such as tax breaks, etc. like everyone else.

I don't like how the economy has been with Bush in office.. It's getting better, verrry slowly, but it's getting better.. Though I think that's partially Clinton's fault because he let his era of strong economic history unfold towards the end of his term.

I just don't like Kerry because I can't believe anything he says.. What he campaigned about and what he would have actually done are most likely 2 different stories.

I will admit, neither of the candidates were good.. I just felt a bit more protected by voting for Bush..

Oh and there's some other things I want to add that I'm not happy with Bush about, but I have to go for now.. Will finish up later.

[gorfgirl]

OK, I've read all three pages of comments and now i'm going to add my two cents worth.

I voted for PRESIDENT Bush. I did not vote for SENETOR Kerry because I never did find out what his "bigger, better plan" was. I didn't like the fact that his wife told America that they were morons for not liking his health care reform plan or that Mrs. bush had never held a job. Even if she had never been a teacher or librarian, she IS a mother and I found it highly insulting to say that being a mother isn't a fulltime job. So, blame Mrs. Kerry for my vote.

While I don't believe in gay "marriage", I do beieve that -every- person in a commited long term relationship, call it civil union, if you will, should be allowed the same tax breaks and rights to insurence benifits that I, as a wife, get under my husband's plan. I have raised my children to believe that skin color, sexual orientation, religion, or lack thereof, should not matter when meeting new people. If the person is someone that they want to be friends with or be with, then all of that shouldn't matter. Just because i voted for PRESIDENT Bush, doesn't mean I don't believe in those things.

Fierce Critter's ignoring "certain members of this boards posts" shows the same intolerence that some people are saying republicans are showing. I think it's rude.

I'm tired of being verbally brow beaten for my choice in voting. Last I checked, this was America and I was free to vote for whomever I chose for whatever reason I chose as is every other American of voting age.

I'm tired of the comments about republicans, about Mrs. Bush and her family.

If you decided to not vote for President Bush beacuse you didn't believe in his policies, then that's one thing. Why make fun of someone for what he sounds like or looks like? That shows just as much intolerance as what some people are accusing me of.

Thankyou, that is all. END RANT.

[torn asunder]

Fierce Critter's ignoring "certain members of this boards posts" shows the same intolerence that some people are saying republicans are showing.

i must disagree about that showing intolerance... some people know themselves well enough to know that certain members have opinions that rub them the wrong way, and rather than taking a chance on over-reacting to a particular statement or member, they may choose to ignore said member. while i don't understand how one can follow a conversation adequately in this manner, i can understant the thinking behind it.

it's true, intolerance is everywhere, it seems, but i always make a strong effort to view things from as many possible angles as i can, before making any kind of judgement that speaks of negativity. i would urge everyone to tkae the time to do the same. remember, nothing is truly as it appears from the outside...

[Soulrev]

i must disagree about that showing intolerance... some people know themselves well enough to know that certain members have opinions that rub them the wrong way, and rather than taking a chance on over-reacting to a particular statement or member, they may choose to ignore said member. while i don't understand how one can follow a conversation adequately in this manner, i can understant the thinking behind it.

it's true, intolerance is everywhere, it seems, but i always make a strong effort to view things from as many possible angles as i can, before making any kind of judgement that speaks of negativity. i would urge everyone to tkae the time to do the same. remember, nothing is truly as it appears from the outside...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally couldn't block anyone because I always like to hear other people's opinions.. Without input from other people or sources you're basically closing yourself in your own little world where your opinions may be negative towards different groups of people and you wouldn't know it.. Being a "youngster" still, I am often times changing my opinions about things as I grow older, everybody does. Different experiences and events in life usually change a person over time. To all out block someone on this board, (DGN in general) is in fact quite rude, in my opinion.

Why? Because this board isn't based on politics and opinions, it's about communicating with eachother, we're all supposed to be friends, or at least accquaintances, and unless someone makes a personal attack against ME (not my political opinion) then you're not getting ignored.

I don't think Troy established this board with the idea of making people hate eachother for their opinions.. I also find it rather limiting to one's self if you ignore someone based on politics.. Take my grandmother for example.. Extremely conservative.. Her best friend is an extreme liberal.. Why people can't draw the line between opinions and the person themselves is beyond me.. It's almost as bad as racism or any prejudice in general.

[Soulrev]

Also would like to throw in that our group "gothic" is a major group that has to deal with intolerance every day.. So to do things as above mentioned makes you just as bad as the people who make fun of you or degrade you for how you look.

[Fierce Critter]

TA did a pretty good job of explaining my actions. But I'll elaborate, though I really didn't think it would be such a big deal.

For the most part, I stopped being involved in political discussions back on EZBDGN some time ago. Here's why.

I know what I believe in. But I listen to what others have to say about their beliefs, too. I got into political discussions on this board for the purpose of educating myself and getting a feel for what others think & believe. I can truly say that I have gone far to keeping an open mind, looking at issues and FACTS to compare with my own thoughts. Keeping alive the possibility that, by listening to what others have to say, I just might feel inclined to say, "you know, I hadn't thought of it like that. That's a good point." And further, to investigate as to whether those "good points" would influence my own thinking on a subject, while ALWAYS taking facts into consideration.

But I grew tired of the same people expressing the same thoughts and the same opinons day in and day out - people on BOTH sides of issues. Each with grossly non-objective "facts" to back up their statements. Each lobbing the others "facts" back at them without the barest hint of being able to see where the other side might be coming from - even the barest bit.

No, not everybody. But enough to make said discussions tiresome & non-informative.

Broken records. Old hats. Black kettles. I wasn't learning ANYTHING anymore - except how much each side hates the other, and how far each side will go to refute the others' statements.

Despite what some people have said here, I rarely EVER saw anyone say ANYTHING to the effect of, "you know, you're right - I concede that point". It DID happen, but not very often. Most I ever saw was a complete DROP in conversation if someone made a pretty irrefutable point with REAL facts to back it up.

I do NOT have a problem with EVERY republican/conservative/Christian. Matter of fact, I don't HAVE a specific problem with people who fall into those categories JUST because they DO.

I can respect someone steadfast in their beliefs. Including conservatives. What I can't deal with are narrow-minds and extremists - on BOTH sides of the issues.

I enjoy the exchange of opinion based on facts. I do NOT enjoy, nor will I stand being proselytized at. Nor will I subject myself to ugly, bigoted remarks from people who have presented themselves as immature, hypocritical or narrow-minded. I don't see why ANYONE would waste their time & good humor on such people.

I had actually asked staff, probably a year ago, if an ignore feature existed on EZBDGN. I am GLAD there's such a feature here.

And it so happens the ignore feature allows you to click on and read a particular post by an ignored member if you so choose. I have done so several times already when it looked like, based on others' responses, there wouldn't be anything particularly upsetting in the post. (As for "confusion", it's not like I have 50% of the members here blocked. It's actually VERY easy to follow threads based on what others have to say in response, if anything.)

Such a feature allows me to have, for myself, an enjoyable experience while on this board. I would consider it rude to HAVE to subject myself to the rantings of someone whose opinions, in general, upset me and don't, in any beneficial way, enrich MY life.

I am not ignorant to the views of people here. On the contrary, I've heard PLENTY of views from all sorts. There are just some who have made their views known well enough to me that I don't need any more input from them. It's that simple.

It's pretty much as TA said. Rather than get all pissy and ranty about what someone else has to say, I choose just not to subject myself to B.S. that makes me feel that way. It's SO not a matter of intolerance or choosing to remain ignorant. Au contrare - I've done more than many would to see where others are coming from. I just don't need to hear any more ugliness from people who won't go even half as far.

[phee]

Seemed to be on the subject:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reuters

Americans Flock to Canada's Immigration Web Site

Fri Nov 5, 2:22 PM ET

 Oddly Enough - Reuters

By David Ljunggren

OTTAWA (Reuters) - The number of U.S. citizens visiting Canada's main immigration Web site has shot up six-fold as Americans flirt with the idea of abandoning their homeland after President Bush (news - web sites)'s election win this week.

 

"When we looked at the first day after the election, Nov. 3, our Web site hit a new high, almost double the previous record high," immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi said on Friday.

On an average day some 20,000 people in the United States log onto the Web site, www.cic.gc.ca -- a figure which rocketed to 115,016 on Wednesday. The number of U.S. visits settled down to 65,803 on Thursday, still well above the norm.

Bush's victory sparked speculation that disconsolate Democrats and others might decide to start a new life in Canada, a land that tilts more to the left than the United States.

Would-be immigrants to Canada can apply to become permanent resident, a process that often takes a year. The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which requires a work permit.

But please spare the sob stories.

Asked whether an applicant would be looked upon more sympathetically if they claimed to be a sad Democrat seeking to escape four more years of Bush, Iadinardi replied: "There would be no weight given to statements of feelings."

Canada is one of the few major nations with an large-scale immigration policy. Ottawa is seeking to attract between 220,000 and 240,000 newcomers next year.

"Let's face it, we have a population of a little over 32 million and we definitely need permanent residents to come to Canada," said Iadinardi. "If we could meet (the 2005) target and go above it, the more the merrier."

But right now it is too early to say whether the increased interest will result in more applications.

"There is no unusual activity occurring at our visa missions (in the United States). Having someone who intends to come to Canada is not the same as someone actually putting in an application," said Iadinardi.

"We'll only find out whether there has been an increase in applications in six months."

The waiting time to become a citizen is shorter for people married to Canadians, which prompted the birth of a satirical Web site called www.marryanamerican.ca.

The idea of increased immigration by unhappy Americans is triggering some amusement in Canada. Commentator Thane Burnett of the Ottawa Sun newspaper wrote a tongue-in-cheek guide to would-be new citizens on Friday.

"As Canadians, you'll have to learn to embrace and use all the products and culture of Americans, while bad-mouthing their way of life," he said.

[JaneDead]

i was one of the people that looked into moving to canada i have thought about it before though. and not sure i would actually do it but i would have no problem with living there.

[Fierce Critter]

My husband and I were very seriously looking into moving to Canada a few years ago. Yes, the conservative direction the country seemed to be going in, even back then, was a major factor.

But moreso, we were looking at having access to Michigan, particularly the Detroit area where family & fun exists in abundance, yet being able to live in a relatively woodsy area. We've come to love the isolation of rural life, but don't like being THIS far away from family & nightlife.

We thought a move to the wooded areas north of Windsor might solve all of the above.

We've found tips & tricks and ins/outs that would probably make it easier for us to pass immigration. But a (probably foolhardy) love for America, in particular, it's land, is what keeps us from making an actual across-border move.

Never know though. I used to say, "it's not the people I have a problem with in the U.S., it's the government." But this past election has me 2nd thinking that distinction.

[Jacques Treatment]

Well, I decided to check out this board, now that things allow me to. The sad thing is, I met someone at ConClave, just before the election, and now the option of emigrating is somewhat difficult to consider in the short term. I'm giving it until the midterm elections, to see if the Republican Taliban manage to gain more power. If they ever gain 2/3 in both houses, the tyranny of the majority has their properly-elected oligarchy.

As for where to go? The top candidate for me, right now, is New Zealand. Better weather than Michigan, stronger currency, greater energy-sufficiency, and really fairly good with respect to civil rights. I can do my current job from anywhere on the globe, although I'd probably start doing something else, as well, to help make ends meet with the continually-weakening dollar.

The biggest reason I couldn't support Bush is the way he and his people were trampling all over our civil rights, and it has taken until just the past few months to get some of it addressed. After that, there's the question of how many errors were made, and yet nobody was actually FIRED. Instead, they were lauded and left where they were. When someone is doing a bad job, you FIRE them.

The other thing is that if a leader has a second term, they have less accountability, in that they don't have to worry about another election, and with growing control of both houses, it becomes *very* difficult to stop him from passing through things that the Republican Extremists want that would be unpopular amongst the people.... including things like Patriot Act II, which at last draft still had language that would allow our leaders to deport even native-born citizens. He won't be impeached by his Republican cronies, and there's no threat regarding his re-election because he can no longer serve. Better to fire an incumbent and deal with four years of someone else. ANYONE else.

The big problem with waiting until midterm elections is that with our debt nudging the ceiling upward, the dollar continues to be worth less and less, and my savings are likely to be chewed up... but if I move now, I'll likely lose someone I'm beginning to really care about.

On the more interesting side--not that anything official has come from it yet--there are reports of precints that had electronic voting LOSING BALLOTS. So much for every vote counting... This link leads to a petition regarding electronic voting.

--J,

looking to JHWH for a burning bush

[phee]

The Onion with a bit of venom...funny though.

NATION'S POOR WIN ELECTION FOR NATION'S RICH

WASHINGTON, DC—The economically disadvantaged segment of the U.S. population provided the decisive factor in another presidential election last Tuesday, handing control of the government to the rich and powerful once again.

Above: Bush and Cheney accept victory.

"The Republican party—the party of industrial mega-capitalists, corporate financiers, power brokers, and the moneyed elite—would like to thank the undereducated rural poor, the struggling blue-collar workers in Middle America, and the God-fearing underpriviledged minorities who voted George W. Bush back into office," Karl Rove, senior advisor to Bush, told reporters at a press conference Monday. "You have selflessly sacrificed your well-being and voted against your own economic interest. For this, we humbly thank you."

Added Rove: "You have acted beyond the call of duty—or, for that matter, good sense."

According to Rove, the Republicans found strong support in non-urban areas populated by the people who would have benefited most from the lower-income tax cuts and social-service programs championed by Kerry. Regardless of their own interests, these citizens turned out in record numbers to elect conservatives into office at all levels of the government.

"My family's been suffering ever since I lost my job at the screen-door factory, and I haven't seen a doctor for well on four years now," said father of four Buddy Kaldrin of Eerie, CO. "Shit, I don't even remember what a dentist's chair looks like... Basically, I'd give up if it weren't for God's grace. So it's good to know we have a president who cares about religion, too."

Kaldrin added: "That's why I always vote straight-ticket Republican, just like my daddy did, before he lost the farm and shot himself in the head, and just like his daddy did, before he died of black-lung disease in the company coal mines."

Kaldrin was one of many who listed moral issues among their primary reasons for voting Republican.

Above: Bush supporters vote in Kendall, FL.

"Our society is falling apart—our treasured values are under attack by terrorists," said Ellen Blaine of Givens, OH, a tiny rural farming community as likely to be attacked by terrorists as it is to be hit by a meteor. "We need someone with old-time morals in the White House. I may not have much of anything in this world, but at least I have my family."

"John Kerry is a flip-flopper," she continued. "I saw it on TV. Who knows what terrible things might've happened to my sons overseas if he'd been put in charge?"

Kerry supporters also turned out in large numbers this year, but they were outnumbered by those citizens who voted for Bush.

"The alliance between the tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid and the teeming masses of mouth-breathers at its enormous base has never been stronger," a triumphant Bush said. "We have an understanding, them and us. They help us stay rich, and in return, we help them stay poor. See? No matter what naysayers may think, the system works."

Added Bush: "God bless America's backwards hicks, lunchpail-toting blockheads, doddering elderly, and bumpity-car-driving Spanish-speakers."