Why Is It That Other Countries Can Manage To Provide Health Care

[Onyx]

but the US can not?

I went to a convention once in Halifax. It's a loooong drive from the airport, and my cab driver struck up a conversation about how he was just getting back to work after months in the hospital and then several at home, and how he didn't have to worry about the bills.

I know there are problems with national health care, but it's better than nothing, right?

I've always had really good insurance until this year. The cutbacks have finally got to me too.

Starting in 2007 my company has cut our coverage back so far I may just have to do without my yearly labs and I'm really wondering what will happen if I do get sick enough to have to be hospitalized. They say they cover preventive care at 100%, but most of the things I have done yearly aren't included.

It covers the first 500 dollars (a few months prescriptions will take that) and then the deductible is $3500 before they start to pay anything, then they pay 70% AFTER they excluded this and that as "over the resonable charge for your area". I've dealt with that particular company they are switching to before and every single thing you submit is sent back at least 35% or more "over reasonable charge", so that much is excluded and instead of 70% it's more like 40 or 50%.

They tried to sell us on the plan by saying it rewards employees for staying healthy. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry! What is insurance for if it doesn't cover you when you are in the hospital?

I can't help feeling it's at least partially corporate greed because upper management still kept their low deductible and 90% coverage. The reason they gave was that they don't utilize the insurance as much so costs are lower.

Right.

[phee]

One of many reasons is that most Americans have a phobia of taxes for such things

[BrassFusion]

One of many reasons is that most Americans have a phobia of taxes for such things

I fear taxes that are spent on teaching kids intelligent design and that abstinence is the only method of birth control worth using.

Among many, many many other things.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

There is the Huge tax hit that people are adverse to and the fact that none of the now running National Health Systems work all that well.

[HipsterDufus]

What alternatives are there to National Health Care though? I know the whole campaign about lawsuits against doctors, and I have no problem with that, but I do not believe for one minute that that is the major cause of the increase in deductibles/premiums for us. If anything, it's the fact that American corporations no longer "need" their employees, since they can ship almost any job to India or China. Knowing this, they jack up out of pocket costs and premiums for you and me. So, either you fix outsourcing, or you have national healthcare. Those seem like the two options that would help the most.

[Head Wreck]

my last paycheque.

Gross pay: £2134.90 (it was a bonus month)

deductions:

National Health Contribution (mand) £160.30

Tax £340.17

Pension Scheme £66.55

Student Loan Repayment £79.00

charity give £4

with all that deductions we have a stugling health service thats barely coping even with all the tax money used to prop it up (even of the 17.5% value added tax) and hospitals are going bankrupt around the UK

and i still pay for private dental and health as i really dont want to wait 18-24 months if i need a life saving op.

healthcare works if it isnt abused like ours is

[HipsterDufus]

Just curious; what do you see being the solution for England, HW?

[Head Wreck]

change in managment strategies.

the NHS suffers from a few chronic problems.

managment heavy: so may consultants, managers etc, way more ratio than its sensible to do. but its nurses and poerters who take paycuts in the neck, and nurses and doctors who are overstretched.

lack of managment continuity: each dept is to itself. hardly anyone knows what goes on outside thier own team let alone thier ward.

lefthand - righthand: recently my local trust has employed contractors to install premium rate phones in each room so family can contact thier own as and when (albiet at premium rate), whilst at the same time another contractor was taken on to install IP telephony in each room.

this is a perfect example of double expendagure due to nobody communicating.

we also have a lot of trouble with social security. when unemployed your contribution is picked up by the state, but the issue is here you can make it more profitable to be unemployed than it is to work 12 hr days. and these people dont pay any rates towards. also the imigration crisis is a real strain as we have healthcare tourism here in which others come into this country to get free healthcare.

the govt seems to be doing SFA about this

[HipsterDufus]

Hmmmmm, seems definitely like something that could happen in the US (inefficiency in general). I wonder what would happen if you went a different route with it and nationalized health care, but contracted different regions out to different insurers to ensure competition and efficiency. Privitization does tend to ensure a cost-effective system, but then at least everyone would be covered. I dunno. Just brainstorming right now.

[Homicidalheathen]

We pay enough in taxes already to cover it if ya ask me.....I don't know that we need so many damn missles....I guess they go bad after awhile and they replace them? Why can't less money go into defense and more into saving lives?

There is so much money in the medical profession and pharmacuticles I wonder if our economy would fall apart if we changed things or if Doctors would just take less vacations....

You go to the hospital and they are short staffed on nurses.....and supplies. It doesn't make any sense.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Defense is saving lives. I soppose we could cut 50% of the defense spending... half of the FBI and CIA spending... and half from border control....

That would fund national health care really well... and we would need it... because then we would have half of mexico living here instead of a quater of it... and most of our major citys would be smoking ruins... but hey... who needs to defend themselves....

[phee]

Makes you wonder about all that tax money that is being poored into Iraq... and all of the good it could have done here

[Homicidalheathen]

My friend lived in Miami and she said the law is there, in that city....not all of Florida but that city.....that if you live there a month you are legal to work here and stuff. Thats why there are so many Haitians...all these people come from Haiti and take the good construction jobs.....our laws are to leanient on illegals for sure.

[BrassFusion]

Defense is saving lives. I soppose we could cut 50% of the defense spending... half of the FBI and CIA spending... and half from border control....

That would fund national health care really well... and we would need it... because then we would have half of mexico living here instead of a quater of it... and most of our major citys would be smoking ruins... but hey... who needs to defend themselves....

I wonder if it would be cheaper to build a big cellophane bubbledome and insulate ourselves from the rest of the world's poverty.

Oh wait...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Brass... our Immigration laws are one of the most lax in the world. Canada is the only country that it's easyer to move to. Also, the US government is the largest contributor to international aid. Private donations from US citizen are the second largest... between the two.. the USA accounts for around 55% of all aid to poor nations... so stuff that crap in a box.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

BTW.. incase people missed it... Tax revenues are UP, the Deficit dropped by half this year alone and the top 3% of the country paid a lion's share of the taxes while the bottom 20% paid none.

Please excuse the use of top and bottom... I am on a few pain killers and could not think of a better way to say it.

[phee]

BTW.. incase people missed it... Tax revenues are UP, the Deficit dropped by half this year alone and the top 3% of the country paid a lion's share of the taxes while the bottom 20% paid none.

Please excuse the use of top and bottom... I am on a few pain killers and could not think of a better way to say it.

Feel better mate

[creatureofthenyte]

my last paycheque.

Gross pay: £2134.90 (it was a bonus month)

deductions:

National Health Contribution (mand) £160.30

Tax £340.17

Pension Scheme £66.55

Student Loan Repayment £79.00

charity give £4

with all that deductions we have a stugling health service thats barely coping even with all the tax money used to prop it up (even of the 17.5% value added tax) and hospitals are going bankrupt around the UK

and i still pay for private dental and health as i really dont want to wait 18-24 months if i need a life saving op.

healthcare works if it isnt abused like ours is

Just curious HW,

what do those monetary figures equate to in US Dollars ?

[creatureofthenyte]

BTW.. incase people missed it... Tax revenues are UP, the Deficit dropped by half this year alone and the top 3% of the country paid a lion's share of the taxes while the bottom 20% paid none.

Please excuse the use of top and bottom... I am on a few pain killers and could not think of a better way to say it.

In my opinion; we have rich people in this country, not just because they successfully made alot of money, but also because they don't pay their fair share of taxes. I think if more of the tax burden was placed on those people making 70k/year and more, then that would generate alot more revenue. But that will most likely never happen because those are the same people that are making exhorbitant contributions to politicians' campaigns. I also think that a financial campaign contribution is just a legal way of saying bribery, but thats probably something for another thread.

[Head Wreck]

my last paycheque.

Gross pay: £2134.90 $4,046.96(it was a bonus month)

deductions:

National Health Contribution (mand) £160.30 $303.84

Tax £340.17 $644.78

Pension Scheme £66.55 $126.16

Student Loan Repayment £79.00 $149.76

charity give £4 $7.58

with all that deductions we have a stugling health service thats barely coping even with all the tax money used to prop it up (even of the 17.5% value added tax) and hospitals are going bankrupt around the UK

and i still pay for private dental and health as i really dont want to wait 18-24 months if i need a life saving op.

healthcare works if it isnt abused like ours is

like i said bonus month. my bonus was only 560 pounds though and completly swallowed up by that

[Dubh Aingeal]

My insurance actually got better and cheaper after I was outsourced than what I was getting.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You know... we had rich people before we had Federal Taxes.

Before you say rich people don't pay their fair share... Do you know how much they pay?

Cheney had gross income of $8.82 Million dollars. He donated $6.87 million to places like the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army’s funds for hurricane relief in the United States and Pakistan and few other charitable orginizations. That left about $1.9 million that could be counted as income. He paid $529,636 in Federal Taxes.

So, he gave 77% of his money to the poor and needy. After that, he paid 27% of what was left to the government...

That means... for every dollar he earned... he kept 19 cents. i could be off by a few cents...

Can you imagine only getting 19 cents for every dollar you earn? Fair share? Give me a break.

[BrassFusion]

BTW.. incase people missed it... Tax revenues are UP, the Deficit dropped by half this year alone and the top 3% of the country paid a lion's share of the taxes while the bottom 20% paid none.

Please excuse the use of top and bottom... I am on a few pain killers and could not think of a better way to say it.

I hope you feel better as well, but you're still wrong about the bottom bracket not paying any taxes. I can personally attest to that.

[creatureofthenyte]

I think the CT Republican Alan Schlessinger said it best: "You think healthcare is expensive now ? Just wait until its free! "