Cheer Up Conservatives

[phee]

I just did call it propaganda, and I'll do so again.

As to whether or not we've fucked up, well, I think it would take a special talent to do worse than we have the past six years. Frankly, I don't give two shits about what al-Qaeda, or Hezbollah, or Kim Jong-Il, or Mahmoud Ahmedinajad (sp?) think about which political party we elect into office, even if it did make a difference in how they view us. The day I let THEM dictate to ME which candidates I prefer is the day I've rolled over and truly let them win, and the day I don't really deserve to be called a son of liberty. If you want to think that way, it's certainly your prerogative, but I fear you more than I fear them, because you have the power to vote.

Basically we can't judge our countries well being by what Hezbollah thinks of us...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

But i only have one tiny Vote... they have whole armys and arsenals. Worse, the have the will to use them. Do you have the will to defend yourself? Or vote for people that will defend you?

[phee]

But i only have one tiny Vote... they have whole armys and arsenals. Worse, the have the will to use them. Do you have the will to defend yourself? Or vote for people that will defend you?

I voted for the people that will defend us... because the last few years have shown that those in power for the last 8 years have done the opposite of defending us... (remember 9/11?) and sent more of us to die pointlessly (remember Iraq?))

Again we cannot let them dictate our policy

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Basically we can't judge our countries well being by what Hezbollah thinks of us...

Really? What about the UN? or France? Or Germany?

You want I should go through the board and show you all the places that you have said otherwise? Where you say we are doing wrong because other countrys are unhappy with what we do?

by you, I mean the left leaning of the board.

make up your mind.

[phee]

Really? What about the UN? or France? Or Germany?

You want I should go through the board and show you all the places that you have said otherwise? Where you say we are doing wrong because other countrys are unhappy with what we do?

by you, I mean the left leaning of the board.

make up your mind.

I was unaware that the UN, France and Germany were terrorist organizations. And Hezbollah is a country now???

Yes Bush destroyed any goodstanding with our foriegn policy... that matters, but Hezbollah hates us no matter what...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Never said they were... but what differenace does it make... what business do they have dictating our elections or actions?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Hezbolla is a legitimate government now btw... remember...

[phee]

Hezbolla is a legitimate government now btw... remember...

Are they a country? no...

We may have aknowledged Germany as a country but disagreed with the Nazis....

There was never a Naziland

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Republicans only had full control for 9 months. Remember... those 8 years with Bill at the wheel? The laws and policys put forth by Democrats that kept the various agencys of the government from talking to each other? The 40 years of Democratic control of congress before that.. when all this shit really start hitting the fan...

Look, I'm not laying blame here. I really don't care at this point who started what. Both partys have thier share of fuck ups... think about it.. name one republican I have actually defended.

I want our goverment to do what is right to keep us safe. Thats thier primary job... everything else is secondary. What the Democratic base has been calling for is stupid. If we spend the next 2 years doing nothing but investigations and impeachemnt hearings... what are we going to get done? Look, I'm all for over sight... but if thats all we do.. focus on revenge like I see the Democratic base calling for... how do we proceed at making things better?

[phee]

Republicans only had full control for 9 months. Remember... those 8 years with Bill at the wheel? The laws and policys put forth by Democrats that kept the various agencys of the government from talking to each other? The 40 years of Democratic control of congress before that.. when all this shit really start hitting the fan...

Look, I'm not laying blame here. I really don't care at this point who started what. Both partys have thier share of fuck ups... think about it.. name one republican I have actually defended.

I want our goverment to do what is right to keep us safe. Thats thier primary job... everything else is secondary. What the Democratic base has been calling for is stupid. If we spend the next 2 years doing nothing but investigations and impeachemnt hearings... what are we going to get done? Look, I'm all for over sight... but if thats all we do.. focus on revenge like I see the Democratic base calling for... how do we proceed at making things better?

Revenge? I don't see that (except Michael Moore lol)

And you have defended Bush a lot.... or the Republicans in general...

And yeah 9 months... (only?)

[Shade Everdark]

Republicans only had full control for 9 months. Remember... those 8 years with Bill at the wheel? The laws and policys put forth by Democrats that kept the various agencys of the government from talking to each other? The 40 years of Democratic control of congress before that.. when all this shit really start hitting the fan...

Look, I'm not laying blame here. I really don't care at this point who started what. Both partys have thier share of fuck ups... think about it.. name one republican I have actually defended.

I want our goverment to do what is right to keep us safe. Thats thier primary job... everything else is secondary. What the Democratic base has been calling for is stupid. If we spend the next 2 years doing nothing but investigations and impeachemnt hearings... what are we going to get done? Look, I'm all for over sight... but if thats all we do.. focus on revenge like I see the Democratic base calling for... how do we proceed at making things better?

Nancy Pelosi, the presumed-Speaker, has said, point-blank, that she isn't going to begin impeachment hearings.

And I must disagree on a matter of interpretation. Those in office have a primary responsibility to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States. Even if we agree that it's their first duty to keep us safe--those in power for the past six years have been pretty selective as to from whom they are keeping us safe. And, to preemptively reference the argument that we've not had an attack since 11 September 2001, it's a correlation, not causation. There is no direct link between the Republicans being in power, and the US not suffering another serious blow by terrorists.

[the eternal]

Ok, I like Michael Moore. I don't agree with him 100% of the time, but then again, if you agree with anything 100% of the time, I find it makes it hard to think for yourself

I'm kind of amazed all of you hate him that much (almost as much as I am to find out that head wreck calls himself a "liberal socialist" I assume you were sarcastic

HW, based on your posts, if you were in America, you'd be a moderate Republican)

But you got to face it, what MM's saying rings true.

The Democrats AREN'T going to be blaming hypocrites the way the GOP leadership has been.

(NOTE: I didnt say Republican, I said GOP leadership--there's a HUGE difference)

Mainly because the election, although a clear mandate to change the status quo, WAS NOT a call for liberalism or even a call for democrats.

It was a call to change the corruption that evolved out of the K Street project ( a concerted effort by many of those in power such as Delay that only allowed lobbyists to pander to conservatives and gave way to one scandal after another most notably aroud uber-lobbyist Jack Abramoff --shout out to Jack one of my Jewish brethren--he had a lot to atone for this year)

AND

It was a call to change things in Iraq

Not pull out tomorrow.

Not do a complete 180.

Change things.

I saw Sen Carl Levin MI, new head of the armed services committee talk on tv. He was phenomenal.

HE WANTS TO GET INPUT!!

INPUT!!!

as to what should be done

BY A NON PARTISAN COMMISSION AND MILITARY ADVISORS.

See, as much as I love the Dems and progressives, the republicans, moderates especially, are NOT the problem.

THE PROBLEM is the arrogance of the Bush Administration and the conservatives directing the party who stood WITH Rumsfeld and insisted on staying the course after screwing up Iraq for over 3 years and creating more terrorists than thought possible.

The terrorists leaders like Osama and Zarqawi LOVE Bush in power.

HES A FABULOUS RECRUITING TOOL.

Forget the middle east-The entire world is probably cheering that we voted for a change.

EXCEPT Bin Laden.

They, like party hacks in this country, don't like nuance, they don't like compromise.

They CERTAINLY don't like this new breed of republicrats like Webb who changed parties after being disgusted by the base

This change had to happen.

But look who got in.

By and large, moderate and conservative democrats who want sensible foreign and economic policy.

The new democrats

don't care about passing gay marriage

Hell, some of them aren't even pro-choice.

They want there to be a good minimum wage, so we don't all starve to death

They want there to be more focus on real issues than scandals

And they want us to stop arrogantly spending a billion dollars a day in Iraq toward a foreign policy that is actually helping the region devolve into complete chaos

(which BTW, was not happening when we got there. )

Saddam, FYI is being hanged for crimes against humanity done in 1982, less than a year BEFORE the infamous picture of him and Rumsfeld shaking hands.

He was our ally back then if you didnt know.

The present administration has spent more of our money than any other administration in history

IT PISSES THE CRAP OUT OF REAL CONSERVATIVES

It's not fiscally responsible.

ITS CUT AND SPEND

Cut taxes and then spend money you don't have.

It makes no sense.

How do we do that?

Well how do any of us spend money when we can't afford it

Put it on our credit card!!!!!!!!

Communist China Express Ka ching!

That's right.

We owe more money to evil, human rights abusing China than any other country in the world

THANKS TO BUSH!!!

Clinton was a fiscal conservative.

He shrank the size of govt.

He gave us a surplus. WHILE expanding student loan programs

REMEMBER THAT?

I didnt think so

NOW

There won't be a million witch hunts.

The dems won't be sore winners.

IF FOR NO OTHER REASON BECAUSE THATS NOT WHAT WE VOTED FOR!

We voted for a change in Iraq and a change in corruption

We voted for a change in the Secy of Defense and a change in the oval office (or at least the arrogant way its been behaving)

AND we felt that although MANY in the moderate wing of the GOP were fed up with his arrogance--esp in terms of Iraq, and MANY in the conservative wing of the GOP were fed up wiht his hair brained cut and spend recklessly policy,

that only the opposite party, ie the dems, would have the balls to enact this change

Democrats with balls

There's a new concept.

So, now the 911 commissioon recommendations may actually be enforced instead of ignored.

Now we may actually look at why Iraq is failing and what can be done to change.

Now we may actually reach out to other countries and consider their viewpoints instead of dismissing them out of hand

Maybe we may actually try to pay our bills instead of rolling our balance another month (I know plentyabout this last one)

BUT

Liberalism is not going to sweep the land OR the halls of Congress.

Anyone who cries END IS NEAR sloganeering to the like obviously didn't pay attention to to the election results closely. Or is such a hack he doesn't care

Happy days may not be here again YET

BUT at least it's the START of something better.

ONE MORE THING

Gaf, you are just a hack. It literally makes me sad that I could turn on Bill OReilly and know exactly what you're going to say. Please try to do more than make a straw argument with little basis but the Limbaugh letter the next time you post

Go pray for me, though. I like feeling special.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I have only defended Bush when people say he is stupid, even though his grades at ivy league universatys say otherwise. Or people going on about his speach impedament. Like it's ok to insult someone with a stutter/stammer while defending someone elses rights... that makes lots of sense(sarcasm)

I support the war. I have always stated I have other reasons for supporting it than the reasons that Bush gave.

as for Revenge...

http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/88

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

eternal... I didn;t like you insulting me under my old name and I dont like it now.

go back and hide in your hole.

[phee]

Very good post Eternal, and well thought out.. and I agree with most of it...BUT DO NOT DO NAME CALLING PLEASE...

[phee]

I have only defended Bush when people say he is stupid, even though his grades at ivy league universatys say otherwise. Or people going on about his speach impedament. Like it's ok to insult someone with a stutter/stammer while defending someone elses rights... that makes lots of sense(sarcasm)

I support the war. I have always stated I have other reasons for supporting it than the reasons that Bush gave.

as for Revenge...

http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/88

Bush is not stupid... he is apathetic... big difference in my mind...

And the link your provided shows that Dems "Could" take revenge... but as was stated... it won't happen

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

unless the far left Democratics push hard enough. Nancy is smart, extremly liberal, but smart. She wont cave right away. She knows she has to appeal to the people in the middle ground like me or the Democrats will loose power. She also knows that she has to keep her far left people happy too. So, the investigations and minor revenges will take place... if the people scream loud enough.. the impeachment starts.

BTW.. Nancy is a Politition. Her lips were moving. Remember? That means she was lieing.

[phee]

unless the far left Democratics push hard enough. Nancy is smart, extremly liberal, but smart. She wont cave right away. She knows she has to appeal to the people in the middle ground like me or the Democrats will loose power. She also knows that she has to keep her far left people happy too. So, the investigations and minor revenges will take place... if the people scream loud enough.. the impeachment starts.

BTW.. Nancy is a Politition. Her lips were moving. Remember? That means she was lieing.

Now this I agree with... and I do hope I am not wrong about the revenge thing... that would be a waste

[the eternal]

Well, good to see The Dark is back. I didn't know it was him OR that we can IM now.

Middle ground. I'll take your word for it.

Anyway, you linked to the "aggressive progressive" wing of the dems.

We voted in the moderate middle dems and Pelosi knows it.

No one's going to scream loud enough for impeachment becuase no one voted for it.

Once again, by and large, the voters didn't vote for the "aggressive progressive" dems.

They voted for change in Iraq and change in corruption.

Here's what WON'T happen (that Michael Moore and John Conyers would like to)

Another 9/11 investigation

Impeachment Hearings

Here's what WILL happen

Iraq investigation (not to impeach but to find out what went wrong and how to change it)

Investigation of warrantless wiretapping (to find out if its necessary and/or constitutional)

Dems want to hold onto their seats and pick up a few more in 08 to cushion the lead.

THEY CAN ONLY DO THIS BY STAYING POSITIVE.

What can be done differently in Iraq?

What can be done differently for homeland security?

What can we do for the economy to not only help those making over $200,000 but middle class folks too?

How can we stop hemorraging money?

If they answer these questions, and we redploy to the perimeter of Iraq by November 2008, we may see a complete change in power, INCLUDING the presidency.

And Nancy Pelosi KNOWS IT.

At least we can agree on that much.

[BrassFusion]

unless the far left Democratics push hard enough. Nancy is smart, extremly liberal, but smart. She wont cave right away. She knows she has to appeal to the people in the middle ground like me or the Democrats will loose power. She also knows that she has to keep her far left people happy too. So, the investigations and minor revenges will take place... if the people scream loud enough.. the impeachment starts.

BTW.. Nancy is a Politition. Her lips were moving. Remember? That means she was lieing.

Mark, you're not in the middle ground at ALL. Believe me on this one.

And you keep talking about electing the party that will defend us. It's vastly more likely that any given person will suffer or actually die from a lack of health insurance than from a terrorist attack, even if we WEREN'T pouring billions upon billions of dollars into homeland security and a war that has nothing to do with those who last attacked us.

[Soulrev]

You know what I think about when I listen to political discussion in general? Lies. That's all it is. Look at you people, arguing and getting pissed off at eachother over lies.

It's not about left, or right, or up or down or who sucked who's dick in the oval office.

It's about lies. All politicians are liars. Every last fuckin' one of them. So instead of sucking the dick and defending whatever politician you are in love with, how about this. Figure out which ones lie less, vote for them, and hope the country does ok.

Instead of this stupid assed arguing over shit you can't REALLY control anyways. A vote is a vote. Is it control? No. In the end the politicians control us. The government controls us.

So instead of insulting eachother because you disagree, why not get a tall glass of shut the fuck up? There are so many other GOOD reasons to insult someone than insulting them because of their beliefs.

God damn I hate politics. I really need to stay out of this forum.

[kellygrrrrrl]

All I see is the story of the Dream of King Nebechadnezzar about to come true......

lame? maybe....but I see a trend...

[BrassFusion]

You know what I think about when I listen to political discussion in general? Lies. That's all it is. Look at you people, arguing and getting pissed off at eachother over lies.

It's not about left, or right, or up or down or who sucked who's dick in the oval office.

It's about lies. All politicians are liars. Every last fuckin' one of them. So instead of sucking the dick and defending whatever politician you are in love with, how about this. Figure out which ones lie less, vote for them, and hope the country does ok.

Instead of this stupid assed arguing over shit you can't REALLY control anyways. A vote is a vote. Is it control? No. In the end the politicians control us. The government controls us.

So instead of insulting eachother because you disagree, why not get a tall glass of shut the fuck up? There are so many other GOOD reasons to insult someone than insulting them because of their beliefs.

God damn I hate politics. I really need to stay out of this forum.

C'mon dude, you just argued AND insulted us! Follow your own advice!

[Paper Hearts]

This resembles a weak Vaudeville routine too often.

One needs not adopt the message of any film as dogma in order to find enjoyment, some beauty in that movie and Michael Moore is at least a good example of this premise. Michael Moore is a good filmmaker if one is able to ignore the subjects of his films often. I don't assign so much merit to his work as many others have--making purely political documentaries is sort of artless, it's like writing instruction manuals as opposed to writing novels; his work is technically sound but it is not very enduring. Still, Moore's work is well wrought and is riveting to so many: somehow, Michael Moore is not as surly as he appears to be--he has escaped himself.

Granting that we all have impressions about the world, things we can evidence yet seldom prove (if ever), I'm willing to allow politicians their various platforms without immediately declaring that the entire lot are any more futile to my purposes than any other peoples. Thus, at heart, I do not care what podium Michael Moore ascends and absolutely never, I'm not willing to listen to him with great intent, nor anyone else, just as what I'm writing now is (no doubt) particularly useless.

Conservatives like liberals do not disguise their views in exchange for greater appeal; those that will are called politicians. People who would disregard or remain impartial to injustice for reputation are politicians. I suppose we are all willing to agree they are degenerates, the ones modeling the red neckties and the ones modeling the blue. Yet our government is swarming with these types, no matter who arrives to reform one party or the other and coincidentally we proudly demand that we are responsible for all this--we vote. Yes, defy every last one of us, you'll not take away our inalienable right to sully ourselves during elections.

I attempt to pass through existence disturbing as little as possible. And I feel that there are those who make that an impossibility for me. It is strange how when one is born there are already so many regulations, often dull regulations, that we must adhere to, which are described to us so very matter-of-fact that I'd like to vomit and choke. If we dislike our lives, we can only make more regulations for our children and I mention children because inevitably so many of us really adore fucking, no worry our circumstances. What we receive in return for our misspent lives [signing new laws, squeezing triggers or casting ballots] is a loose bit of protection from (essentially) ourselves, and protection from people we call "foreigners" [if we forget that borders are someone else's drawings--those lines on the ground are the work of others: foreigners]. At finish, I perceive that we should fuck each other as best and often as possible.

I have mentioned Vaudevillian satire: the greatest irony of society and alike aspect of a politician is that without empty people to administer life to us, we have only dire differences--we require people who are so empty, people who seem to extract all the nutrients they need via licking the external sexual determinants of their philosophical opponents in order for privilege: we learn decorum through their example. Sometimes, often enough, a politician fails, they make a war, but there we are with rifles returning them to glory, restoring their cheapness, and this is also ironic, but it stands to reason that the best attribute for a politician is an inherent and intense deficiency in the area of principal: inadequate ideologues are what keep us from making irreversible wounds of different throats.

Thus the mock fulcrum of republicans and democrats, labor and tory, are somewhat a necessity. Albeit, what business an artist, specifically a filmmaker has in their company I cannot speculate. Michael Moore evidently matches their worthlessness and significance and I allot him a regard indistinguishable from theirs.

[Soulrev]

C'mon dude, you just argued AND insulted us! Follow your own advice!

I'll be honest my statement was slightly hypocritical (slightly) but seriously is it worth getting all pissed off at eachother over stupid bullshit you can't REALLY change anyways? This person hates that person and etc? It's like children who hate eachother for no good reason.