Is This A Detroit Thing? Or A Michigan Thing?

[Onyx]

I might offend someone with this, but I just have to ask ... Just know I'm not directing it at anybody in particular, or even necessarily anyone here.

I've noticed something strange. I've met so many people in the Detroit area and a few in this area over here on the west side of the state who are WAY WAY past 18 and still living at home with their parents, often abusive ones.

Why is that? Is it more accepted here or something?

For example, I know this fellow who just turned 31 and he is still living at home. He has a good job and a car but is way over his head with loans. WTF?

I just can't understand it. Maybe my parents were just more irritating? I could not WAIT to get a car and get myself out on my own. I suffered from lack of money, had to work hard, 2 and 3 crapola jobs at first, but I was so proud of myself and enjoyed being on my own. I know the job situation is hard, but it was hard when I started out too. I put out over 100 resumes and worked hard to find a job (put in 8 hour days just looking), still could not support myself on one full time job, so I took a full time and a part time job.

Where has the ambition and motivation to be on your own gone?

Why are there 20-somethings who don't even drive and don't have transportation and the thing that REALLY gets me is that they have no motivation to even try. I just don't get it. I can not imagine being in my 20s or 30s and having to depend on someone else for a ride all the time.

[RosyBlue]

I think for alot of people it's just easier to stay at home. Parents don't really want the kid to leave because then their house would be empty and lonely. For some parents I think it's comforting to have a kid still at home. And for the kids it's easy to get by when you're not having to pay rent or a mortgage. They just have no ambition to get out and make it on their own. For some kids it's nessisary to live at home though. If they're in financial trouble. I didn't really have a choice but to move out on my own. I've been taking care of my mom since I was little because she's disabled. Once I turned 18 she moved out of the apartment we had and got into low income housing. If I had moved in with her I would have been considered another source of income for her and her rent would have increased alot. So I had to find my own place.

[Rayne]

Why are there 20-somethings who don't even drive and don't have transportation and the thing that REALLY gets me is that they have no motivation to even try. I just don't get it. I can not imagine being in my 20s or 30s and having to depend on someone else for a ride all the time.

I have often (even publicly) asked the same question. I mean, I understand got in an accident and you know ... a few weeks out of a car until insurance settles or you save for a new one ... but I don't understand not having one at all. I bought my first car at 15 for $250. I put about $400 into it and drove it for 12 years. Even having another car with it.

My little brother bought a shit Escort and some Bondo for $150 ... car looked like crap, rusted and junk ... he brought it home, bondo'd it up and painted the whole car flat red with spray paint. It looked decent and stopped rusting through. He drove that for MANY, MANY years ... I want to say about 5 or so.

I used to work at a car parts store (a couple actually) I've seen cars go for $50, $100, $150 ... they may not look pretty, but they run.

Hell, Jeremy had an Omni up here on DGN for sale, REALLY NICE PRICE.

Especially when you have kids that bother me.

[saechalyn]

I have noticed this as well, and I don't get it. It's one thing to move back in with your folks after injury, or losing your job, or maybe a divorce or whatever, but lots of people never move out or even act interested in trying. It's bizarre to me.

[BrassFusion]

Speaking as one of the folks you're all speaking about

(heh)

While it may have been a shit job market when you were starting out, Onyx, was it as shitty as the job market today? There are a lot of people who simply can't. find. a. job.

I've put in applications everywhere. Some of you know I was working at Toys R Us... over Christmas. They don't need me anymore so I'm back to just teaching, but not as many parents can afford lessons so I only teach about three hours per week. When I was 20 I was teaching about eight hours a week, and I was in school on scholarship, so I didn't need some bullshit retail job anyway.

It's not just a case of, "the harder you look, the more you'll be able to find." There are people with CREDENTIALS and degrees who are out of work, and they're the ones who get hired over me for shit grillmonkey jobs.

And I'm one of thousands.

[Steven]

we spend money we dont have

to buy shit we dont need

to reach some apparent level of success we have not really achieved

to stimulate some false receptor within us that is a substitute for contentment which we have never learned

and we end up living at Mom's.

thats why.

[Gauge]

i moved out 2 weeks before i graduate high school and already had a car (i was lucky enough that my dad bought it for me) and havnt moved back in since. my ex on the other hand is going to be 26 this year. he still lives with his family, still has no car, never took a drivers exam so not only cant he take his parents car out for a spin, he cant even drive with mommy next to him. he just enrolled in college which is 3 hours away and has to have his parents drive him back and forth. durring the week he sneaks into various dorm rooms to "live" beceause his old dorm was taken away when he got caught drinking in it. he eats out constantly because he has no idea how to cook (i tried to teach him once. . .he cant even boil water), and the extent of his job is 3 hours a week at a local cafe (this is not because he cant find a job either, he had a full time job when we started going together but decided it cut into "us" time, and didnt like the fact that he couldnt play video games all day so he quit, and never looked for another one). i think the problem here is that his mother has raised him on excuses and told him he never had to be anything. she expects that hes going to run off and marry some girl whos gonna do his laundry for him (which he cant do either), cook all his meals, and basically serve him hand and foot. i think the "ambition and motivation to be on your own" has been kicked out of the picture by the "need" to do nothing and still get through life. . . :erm

(im not including the accident, injury, divorce, whatever stuff in here)

[Onyx]

Speaking as one of the folks you're all speaking about

(heh)

While it may have been a shit job market when you were starting out, Onyx, was it as shitty as the job market today? There are a lot of people who simply can't. find. a. job.

I've put in applications everywhere. Some of you know I was working at Toys R Us... over Christmas. They don't need me anymore so I'm back to just teaching, but not as many parents can afford lessons so I only teach about three hours per week. When I was 20 I was teaching about eight hours a week, and I was in school on scholarship, so I didn't need some bullshit retail job anyway.

It's not just a case of, "the harder you look, the more you'll be able to find." There are people with CREDENTIALS and degrees who are out of work, and they're the ones who get hired over me for shit grillmonkey jobs.

And I'm one of thousands.

OK, I looked up a few figures -

I'm giving my old age away a bit here, but it was the early 1980s and unemployment was 5.8% according to a few sites I checked.

I'm trying to find some solid figures for 2006, but most of them are well below 5.8 - am I reading them correctly?

Inflation was runaway too in the early 80s, and there were no jobs in my home town. I had to move to get a job at the time, and the job I got didn't support me so as I said I had to really hustle to get another to go with it.

I'm thinking that Detroit is probably worse off than the rest of the country though, but I guess my question was mostly about those who don't even seem to *want* to leave (or learn to drive or have any sign of motivation to get out on their own). It just puzzled me.

I really do feel for those who are looking and just *can't* find anything. I suppose I was lucky in that I was able to have an opportunity to move at the time to where the work was. I was broke as hell though and had a P.O.S. car. I'm not sure I'd be quite as adventurous now that I'm older if faced with that same thing.

I hope the economy changes for the better soon.

[Msterbeau]

I just like my mom that much. :-)

[Onyx]

I just like my mom that much. :-)

It's time for you to get a Learner's Permit, Mister!

[DarkVampire]

I'm a west sider that is on their own.

[LuluVox]

I don't know about it being a Michigan thing; my brother lives with my parents in Nevada and he's 36. He has moved out in the past, but for the last 5 or so years he's lived back home, and I'd be shocked if he ever moved out at this point. It's pretty disgusting, that whole situation.

I moved out around 19 and have moved back here and there, but it was only long enough to "recoup" from what-not and then move on with life. I don't see living with parents as being a viable option for me. Perhaps it's pride?

Same here. I moved out at 18, shortly before graduating high school. I did have to move back in with my parents for a few months when I was 23 (the reason I'm in Michigan in the first place -- they were living here), but when they moved in '04 I took my own path. It was scary how much living at home at 23 was like living at home when I was 13 (my sister was living w/ my parents, too, during the Michigan-time). Though I was thankful to have their help when I needed it, it was too much of a mindfuck to be a good situation, and I got out of it as soon as I could.

[phee]

My step dad kicked me out of the house when I was 18... so no problems there

[Rayne]

I moved out at 18 when I got married.

Mind you, my parents hadn't actually lived at their house for a few years by then.

Spent three months with him and left (due to abuse) ... stayed with a friend for a bit until I found out I was going to have my oldest daughter. My parents let me move back in their house rent free until I recouped from having the baby. I had a rough pregnancy and was unable to work. They understood.

I moved out of their house when my daughter was 3 months old.

I've moved back here and there a few times but since I moved out when Emi was 3 months, I've paid rent and bills at the house when I lived there.

Currently my little brother (25) is living in the house with his wife and her son and their daughter. They don't pay a dime. My parents pay it ALL. They've lived there since I moved in with Phee a year ago. But that's another rant for another time.

[LuluVox]

My step dad kicked me out of the house when I was 18... so no problems there

Hm, I can understand...my moving out wasn't as voluntary as it could have been. :D More like my response to a very stupid fight. Ideally I would have waited until after I was out of high school. Actually I think I already had plans to move out upon graduation, to Asheville, NC. But that didn't happen, so I stuck around Georgia for a few more years. Those were good years, looking back. Strangely, I think living in a teeny Southern town I didn't like for 10 years played quite a big part in shaping me into the fine young lady I am today.

[phee]

Hm, I can understand...my moving out wasn't as voluntary as it could have been. :D More like my response to a very stupid fight. Ideally I would have waited until after I was out of high school. Actually I think I already had plans to move out upon graduation, to Asheville, NC. But that didn't happen, so I stuck around Georgia for a few more years. Those were good years, looking back. Strangely, I think living in a teeny Southern town I didn't like for 10 years played quite a big part in shaping me into the fine young lady I am today.

Heh... very true...

My (now Ex) step dad threatened to destroy everything I own if I didn't leave... and after I left he moved his own son in...

Yeah... um.... ok

[BrassFusion]

I guess my "sitch" is more tolerable than yours were. There were a few moments at 18 when I was almost out the door of my own volition or of someone else's, but I honestly didn't have anywhere to go. Was I going to move in with my boyfriend, live at his alcoholic dad's house, and summarily get kicked out of there a few months later? Suuure.

But back to the topic.

Yes, some people stay at home because they're lazy and/or scared. Not that I've ever had enough money to get out on my own, but if I did, I'd DEFINITELY be scared about it. My income kinda fluctuates like that.

[pomba gira]

I think for alot of people it's just easier to stay at home. Parents don't really want the kid to leave because then their house would be empty and lonely. For some parents I think it's comforting to have a kid still at home.

imy ex on the other hand is going to be 26 this year. he still lives with his family, still has no car, never took a drivers exam so not only cant he take his parents car out for a spin, he cant even drive with mommy next to him. he just enrolled in college which is 3 hours away and has to have his parents drive him back and forth. durring the week he sneaks into various dorm rooms to "live" beceause his old dorm was taken away when he got caught drinking in it. he eats out constantly because he has no idea how to cook (i tried to teach him once. . .he cant even boil water), and the extent of his job is 3 hours a week at a local cafe (this is not because he cant find a job either, he had a full time job when we started going together but decided it cut into "us" time, and didnt like the fact that he couldnt play video games all day so he quit, and never looked for another one). i think the problem here is that his mother has raised him on excuses and told him he never had to be anything. she expects that hes going to run off and marry some girl whos gonna do his laundry for him (which he cant do either), cook all his meals, and basically serve him hand and foot. i think the "ambition and motivation to be on your own" has been kicked out of the picture by the "need" to do nothing and still get through life. . . :erm

Currently my little brother (25) is living in the house with his wife and her son and their daughter. They don't pay a dime. My parents pay it ALL. They've lived there since I moved in with Phee a year ago. But that's another rant for another time.

Estranged Hubby Rick falls into this category- at age 40 he's lived joblessly with his mom for the past 3 years or so & made very few serious attempts to change the situation. She's got him into a couple training programs (she works doing oversight for apprenticeship programs) but nothing ever seems to come of it. He is a sweet person with the best of intentions- but has no ambition & very low self-confidence... so as long as she's willing to support him I don't see things changing. Part of it is his depression- he was on meds for a while and showed signs of actually getting his shit together- but he d/c'd the meds ("it made me too energetic all the time") and immediately it was non-business as usual.

IMO enabling parents are a big part of it. Gauge's story is a perfect example of parents who have trained their kid to be a professional fuckup wastrel. The kind of parents that are called "helicopters" at college registrations due to hovering over their adult children and attempting to solve every problem for them. A lot of boomer-aged parents have the resources to easily support grown children and don't hesitate to do so. Maybe for some it makes them feel they're still young if they have kids at home? Who knows... people are so complicated. I don't think it's a Michigan or even Midwest thing, either... the "helicopter parent" thing is a growing problem all over the country... I know that's not specifically what we're talking about but but IMO it's caused by the same attitudes as the stay-at home syndrome.

AFA not driving- I didn't have a car from age 20 to 32, mainly 'cos I didn't want the expense... but not having a car in San Francisco and Lansing is a very different thing from not having one in the Detroit area.

For my part, feeling like an independent, self-sufficient adult is vital to my sense of self & well-being. I moved back in w/my mom & stepfather at age 32 after losing/quitting my job & then being unable to get a new one due to being hit by a vehicle. It was very difficult, partly because I'm so territorial. I have a wonderful relationship with my MaMa, but I am an adult, into adult things, many of which are hard for her to accept, and I very much need my own space. My cousin lives next door to her mother & I can't even imagine doing that, much less in the same house. I stayed at my mother's for about 4 months; as soon as Estranged Hubby Rick got it together enough to get us a place I was outta there. Only other time I've lived w/family as an adult was when I moved back up here & started teaching. I tried commuting for 2 weeks & just couldn't handle it so I moved in with my great aunt/surrogate grandmother. Again, I only stayed for about 5 months, until I had enough saved to get my own place.

[TygerLili]

I lived at school when I was in college(the first time), but other than that I lived at home until I was 25, though I wasn't actually home much the last year, I was always staying with friends. I really don't regret living at home that long at all. I could only find part-time work where we lived, and I couldn't afford a place without a full time salary. Other than minimum friction between my mom and I shortly after I moved back in, we got along well and didn't crowd each other. I don't have a ton of stupid debts now like a lot of the people I know who moved out in their late teens and very early 20s(not a stab at them, just glad I don't have to deal with that particular problem).

I moved down here for kind of a stupid reason, but it got me down here and out on my own anyway. I'm happy to be on my own now, but I never especially minded living at home.

People who still live with their parents and don't get along with them, on the other hand, I don't understand. Had I been in that situation I'm sure I'd have moved out as soon and I could have, too.

[bav]

I just like my mom that much. :-)

I like your mom that much too.

[phee]

I like your mom that much too.

Heh

[Morbid Side]

Life at home was a living hell for me. Not once have I ever thought about turning back. I've been on my own for a year now and I plan to keep it that way.

[Guest Megalicious]

I've lived without the parental units since 14.

[Head Wreck]

seen the house prices here lately?

[Nienna]

I *WISH* I could move home. I make almost enough to live uncomfortably as long as the gov doesn't decide to make me pay my student loans anytime soon. The extra help would be great.

The problem is, alot of people are out of work. People like me and other younger people sometimes just can't get work. The job market does suck, but what makes it worse is that for every new college grad with a million dollars of education debt and nothing else, there are 3 middle aged people with 10 years of experience trying to get the same jobs. So we don't get hired, and work for low pay at a job we aren't challenged at.

What really scares me is that there is no end in sight for alot of us. Blah.