Is This A Detroit Thing? Or A Michigan Thing?

[pomba gira]

Good points, Nienna

Very often we think that the way things have been thus far in our own lifetime is the "normal" way for people to live. But if you think about it, the idea that young people should live "on their own" as soon as (or soon after) they reach adulthood, whether they are starting a family of their own or not, only dates to what- the '60s? And the idea probably only caught on then because there was the right combination of social & economic factors. In the same way we think of the nuclear family as the "normal" family structure, but actually it's a very new idea, almost unique to western society, and really doesn't work all that well. So... maybe all these ideas about being "independent" are based on a socioeconomic structure that's on the way out? Personally I believe we have a need for a more extended-family type norm... whether they are families created by blood or by choice & affinity. It will be interesting to see what evolves as the middle class continues to decline and high-paying unskilled jobs become a thing of the past. It's pretty clear to me that the 50s- based "American dream" nuclear family, individualist-driven standard is attainable for fewer people every year.

[BrassFusion]

Good points, Nienna

Very often we think that the way things have been thus far in our own lifetime is the "normal" way for people to live. But if you think about it, the idea that young people should live "on their own" as soon as (or soon after) they reach adulthood, whether they are starting a family of their own or not, only dates to what- the '60s? And the idea probably only caught on then because there was the right combination of social & economic factors. In the same way we think of the nuclear family as the "normal" family structure, but actually it's a very new idea, almost unique to western society, and really doesn't work all that well. So... maybe all these ideas about being "independent" are based on a socioeconomic structure that's on the way out? Personally I believe we have a need for a more extended-family type norm... whether they are families created by blood or by choice & affinity. It will be interesting to see what evolves as the middle class continues to decline and high-paying unskilled jobs become a thing of the past. It's pretty clear to me that the 50s- based "American dream" nuclear family, individualist-driven standard is attainable for fewer people every year.

THANK YOU.

I would love to live on a commune, myself... just one in which I don't have to nurture a climate of secrecy between myself and my parents.

I know they know I know they know I smoke dope occasionally and drink to excess and get into orgies with random strangers, and I'm sure they know I know that.

I just wish I could do all that groovy shit in my own happenin' pad.

[Fierce Critter]

Hm.

My oldest sister (18 years older than I) lived at home until she was almost 50.

My 2nd oldest sister lived at home until she was about 28 I think.

I lived at home until 30. Then bounced back to the parents WITH my husband a couple times. Went right from the parents to living with my husband, I have never lived on my own or with a non-related roomate.

My aunt lived with her parents until she was past 50.

It sort of runs in the family. With us, it's a lot of people afraid of venturing out on their own, methinks. Me, I was too immature to get my shit together and get the hell out, though I threatened to a few times, and came very close once in my mid-20's. I'm ashamed to admit it, but with me, it's very much what Steven described. One difference, however, with all of us is we all had good jobs, and contributed toward the household, including paying rent. As soon as I hit 18, I started paying, and the buying of things stopped for me - it was up to me to pay my own way.

My parents are on their own finally, and are constantly at each other's throats. I think they needed a referee or two around. They're 80 and 81, and I swear I've never seen two people more in need of a late-life divorce. My dad is vibrant and busy, and my mother is nearly comotose, she's so non-mobile. They sleep in separate bedrooms now. I hate it. I love my parents to death, it's one of the biggest reasons we HAD to move back to Michigan. But I have to grit my teeth to go over there now, I get so tired of their bickering. I literally come home worn out from it.

[Reaper]

I have been more apt to living in my car than asking to stay at anyone's house, including my parents. I was rather embarrassed to go back home to ask to stay because I failed to get it together. That is when I took a stand and went into a career that I really did not want to get into, and I haven't regretted it since. I often tell others that it sometimes takes a career turn that you do not want to make for things to get much better. But one thing led to another and I came into the position that I wanted to get to before I began trucking. Now I am a terminal manager, making great money, getting home nightly, and getting the respect I deserved for all my hard work and recognition. Too many people just suck it up and let people kick them down. I have been proving my peers wrong that a long haired goon can look professional and show the work to prove it

I'll never live at home again. I will live in my vehicle again before I do that.

[pomba gira]

I've also noticed the trend of "we want papers" from employers. I've got 15 years of computers and networking under my belt. Every year I add something to my "skill set" and it will never be enough. I'm a college drop-out that can't afford to go back. Real world experience will always account for more than classwork in my book. It sucks that these large companies that hold the "decent" wages don't read the same book.

This trend... specifically, the No Child Left Behind travesty... is why I'm unemployed. To teach just about anything besides basic k-8 self contained these days, you need endorsements in addition to your teaching certificate. For me to get a Special Education endorsement I would have to get a second master's degree... the school I was at didn't offer any kind of tuition reimbursement and I'm already paying on $20k in student loans from getting my first masters, which I needed to get certified. And my situation is far from unique- teachers are leaving the field all over the country because of endorsement & continuing ed issues... older, 2nd career teachers (like me) are returning to their original careers where they can earn more $$ and not be expected to pay for expensive coursework all the time. So school principals are in this catch-22 situation- hire an experienced teacher with a great work history but w/out the needed endorsements, and risk losing state & federal funding for not having Highly Qualified staff... or hire someone fresh out of school who has endorsements but no experience or classroom management skills. I am having a real hard time understanding how this situation is improving anyone's education.

[BrassFusion]

This trend... specifically, the No Child Left Behind travesty... is why I'm unemployed. To teach just about anything besides basic k-8 self contained these days, you need endorsements in addition to your teaching certificate. For me to get a Special Education endorsement I would have to get a second master's degree... the school I was at didn't offer any kind of tuition reimbursement and I'm already paying on $20k in student loans from getting my first masters, which I needed to get certified. And my situation is far from unique- teachers are leaving the field all over the country because of endorsement & continuing ed issues... older, 2nd career teachers (like me) are returning to their original careers where they can earn more $$ and not be expected to pay for expensive coursework all the time. So school principals are in this catch-22 situation- hire an experienced teacher with a great work history but w/out the needed endorsements, and risk losing state & federal funding for not having Highly Qualified staff... or hire someone fresh out of school who has endorsements but no experience or classroom management skills. I am having a real hard time understanding how this situation is improving anyone's education.

Duly noted... I am so beyond lucky to have the job I do. That's why I could never leave Michigan without a really good music/teaching gig lined up right out of the gate.

[DarkVampire]

I could never move back home. I like my freedom and do what I want to whenever I feel like doing it. Plus theres a pride issue involved. I'm not going to ask for handouts and I am reluctent to ask for help.

[RosyBlue]

I just thought of something in defense of some of the kids that stay at home.

I've been lucky enough to be able to find someone to get a place with ever since I had to move out of my mom's. At times I have had to live with people I really didn't want to, but it was my only choice. Considering I have not gone to college (like that even matters anymore anyways) and do not have any specific skills besides customer service, I can't find a job that pays enough that I would be able to get an apartment on my own. Even when I was at my old job where I was making the most I've ever made ($9.10/hour), I still couldn't have afforded to live by myself. And not all of us are lucky enough to have friends or significant others to live with. So I guess I can see how some people would end up living at home. The amount alot of low paid workers get nowadays makes it impossible to live on your own.

[Homicidalheathen]

Personally I think it is the economy.

And that allot of our parents migrated from down south......where people still feel, if you spare the rod you spoil the child.....hence the abuse.

All over the country though kids stay home through college now......its the only way allot can even afford to go.

[Steven]

I have been more apt to living in my car than asking to stay at anyone's house, including my parents. I was rather embarrassed to go back home to ask to stay because I failed to get it together. That is when I took a stand and went into a career that I really did not want to get into, and I haven't regretted it since. I often tell others that it sometimes takes a career turn that you do not want to make for things to get much better. But one thing led to another and I came into the position that I wanted to get to before I began trucking. Now I am a terminal manager, making great money, getting home nightly, and getting the respect I deserved for all my hard work and recognition. Too many people just suck it up and let people kick them down. I have been proving my peers wrong that a long haired goon can look professional and show the work to prove it

I'll never live at home again. I will live in my vehicle again before I do that.

there is some value to this, as I too am in a niche industry where I manage operations.

I have no education outside of high school. I started out in construciton as a grunt doing electrical work, and found a certain niche in commerical lighting which led me to (with a little gumption mind you) cross train into signwork and now I run crews, own a home, blah blah blah, it's still tite however, and honestly as I get older I think of moving into other fields like therapy (tell me aboutyoru mother....) but I dont know that I'm willing to make the sacrifices to start over. If you've got the ability to plot a course and stay on it while your young....I still think that is best.