Lets All Be Happy And Hug

[Lilith]

This year, the drug MDMA, otherwise known as ecstasy, could take a step toward medical respectability. Researchers in South Carolina have begun experimenting with MDMA for patients with post-traumatic stress disorder.

Enthusiasts say the drug makes them feel relaxed, energetic, and mentally clear. One likened it to a six-hour orgasm.

But research has not proved that moderate or low doses of ecstasy are particularly dangerous. And avant-garde psychiatrists have long argued that in a controlled clinical setting, low amounts can play a role by reducing fear, without sedation, and so encourage openness and emotional insight. "There is nothing else like this in psychiatry—a fast-acting anti-anxiety medication that makes people alert and talkative," says Julie Holland, a psychiatrist at NYU Medical Center. If available to treat patients, "It would be incredibly useful."

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I neither endorse or condem this Drug, i just find it funny that soemthing that started out as a martial aid became illegal and now they want to make it legal in some way. I will alos be interested in seeing how they control this legally and how many people they dish it out to, how the Club scene will fair with it legalized and all those who just cant stop now.

[Rayne]

That is scary ... my 7 1/2 year old has been diagnosed PTSD.

[Homicidalheathen]

If you only do it once in awhile it wont hurt you I dont think.....I just wish it was legal so that peeps wouldn't be buying it on the street cause then you don't know what the hell your getting and they will do it anyway...

[Homicidalheathen]

Oh and I have PTSD

I dont see how feeling good for a couple hours once in awhile chemically is going to help it.

so far it hasn't helped my PTSD.

I still have a hard time sleeping or falling asleep and concentrating under certain conditions.

Still shake, hit, twitch... or yell as I fall asleep once in awhile. sometimes during sleep, as part of my PTSD

[pomba gira]

If you only do it once in awhile it wont hurt you I dont think.....I just wish it was legal so that peeps wouldn't be buying it on the street cause then you don't know what the hell your getting and they will do it anyway...

Actually they only stopped experimenting with "legitimate" uses for MDMA because of its "high abuse potential" (i.e. it makes people feel good which is taboo in our puritanical society), not because it was dangerous in any physiological way. Like most "street" drugs, the danger comes in largely because of the fact that it's illegal so there's no quality control or product labeling.

And... the goal with this kind of drug therapy is not just to make you feel good for a couple hours- it's to re-train your brain how to feel good on its own (to vastly oversimplify).

[Homicidalheathen]

Seems like it would make things worse, since it depletes your saratonin.

[Nienna]

I had read this article a few days ago. I can think of a couple people I know well that could greatly benefit from this type of therapy. I doubt it'll ever come to fruition though. There's too much potential for abuse.

[pomba gira]

Seems like it would make things worse, since it depletes your saratonin.

Hence the benefit of using MDMA as an aid to training the brain to re-map itself, rather than relying on temporary chemical mood enhancement with its associated disruption of neurochemical balances. Which is prolly the main reason this won't catch on- Big Pharma has a HUGE interest in keeping people reliant on temporary chemical solutions, rather than coming up with ways to teach people to alter their own brain chemistry & neurological mapping. Look at that neurobiofeedback therapy for ADHD- it WORKS... but there's a lot more money to be made by keeping kids dependent on stimulant drugs.

[BrassFusion]

Actually they only stopped experimenting with "legitimate" uses for MDMA because of its "high abuse potential" (i.e. it makes people feel good which is taboo in our puritanical society), not because it was dangerous in any physiological way. Like most "street" drugs, the danger comes in largely because of the fact that it's illegal so there's no quality control or product labeling.

And... the goal with this kind of drug therapy is not just to make you feel good for a couple hours- it's to re-train your brain how to feel good on its own (to vastly oversimplify).

You seem to know a lot about this. What's the addiction factor we're looking at here?

I mean, I guess I had kind of a wake-up recently what with the prescribed vicodin. I can't believe that crap is legal (if controlled, whatev) and pot isn't. It sort of pisses me off. just a little.

[Steven]

And... the goal with this kind of drug therapy is not just to make you feel good for a couple hours- it's to re-train your brain how to feel good on its own (to vastly oversimplify).

but then that is the catch no?

its so much easier to simply get high (or "stabel, or relieved, or stress free or or or), than to do the mental ditch diggin to start re-connecting the dots.

After all, this is America. we want it all, we want it NOW. Pick up the phone, call your dealer, and you got it.

Works the same way with Dr. Prescribed mood elevators/stabilizers.

do we really lean toward the goal of weaing ourselves OFF a particular chemical, or do we instead simply switch to something else. ?

[torn asunder]

but then that is the catch no?

its so much easier to simply get high (or "stabel, or relieved, or stress free or or or), than to do the mental ditch diggin to start re-connecting the dots.

After all, this is America. we want it all, we want it NOW. Pick up the phone, call your dealer, and you got it.

Works the same way with Dr. Prescribed mood elevators/stabilizers.

do we really lean toward the goal of weaing ourselves OFF a particular chemical, or do we instead simply switch to something else. ?

from what i understood, they were going to administer the drug during therapy sessions, in order to allow the patient to be more open to "mental ditch digging". once a person can open up to harsh events, it's easier to deal with...

[Steven]

from what i understood, they were going to administer the drug during therapy sessions, in order to allow the patient to be more open to "mental ditch digging". once a person can open up to harsh events, it's easier to deal with...

Come now Michael, we dont really want our good citizens to be self sufficient now do we?

[bav]

You seem to know a lot about this. What's the addiction factor we're looking at here?

I mean, I guess I had kind of a wake-up recently what with the prescribed vicodin. I can't believe that crap is legal (if controlled, whatev) and pot isn't. It sort of pisses me off. just a little.

MDMA is physically non-addictive, unlike narcotics/opiates such as Vicodin.

Psychological addiction, YMMV. I've known a few E-tards.

[bav]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I neither endorse or condem this Drug, i just find it funny that soemthing that started out as a martial aid became illegal and now they want to make it legal in some way. I will alos be interested in seeing how they control this legally and how many people they dish it out to, how the Club scene will fair with it legalized and all those who just cant stop now.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear about it starting as a marital aid? I'm curious about that.

Anyways, right now there is no talk of legalizing or decriminalizing MDMA. The studies are going on to see if it has any valid medical use (which I find sort of funny as before it was placed on the Schedule I list, it was already being used in therapy sessions and progress was being made in PTSD treatment. Thanks, Uncle Sasha & co.!), which would then presumably mean the FDA possibly moving it down the schedule, probably to Schedule II or III (politics aside). This would put it on the same level as codeine or anabolic steroids.

If it moving down the Schedule does occur (which I'm not really expecting to happen, for reasons that the esteemed Pomba Gira talked about earlier if nothing else) then the primary impact on the club scene I would see happening is a possible increase in the pills being sold as MDMA actually being MDMA (or higher levels of MDMA contained in them) but not that huge. More likely, there will be even more pills purported to be MDMA sold when it will be a derivative or possibly even something completely different.

Hopefully, this will not mean more PMA outbreaks.

[Lilith]

Out of curiosity, where did you hear about it starting as a marital aid? I'm curious about that.

An old friend was arrested once for selling E, he had Rehab among other leagal repucutions, he said one of the things he learned in rehab was this was used by marirage counselers to help couples get over things like Cheating, abuse, to be able to love again or feel that close intimate feeling one shares with a spouse. I would assume if that is true it may have been used the same way this New study suggests and may have had the similar results to what they expect to get.

I guess it goes some thing like this :

A wife discovers her husband cheated, she is upset and it is a very traumatic event for her, she loves her husband yet feels betrayed cant trust etc.... but does not want divorce but wants things back to "normal", her sense of intamcy with her husband had been ruined, take a little of this the Dr says and You'll feel the love.......

[pomba gira]

You seem to know a lot about this. What's the addiction factor we're looking at here?

I mean, I guess I had kind of a wake-up recently what with the prescribed vicodin. I can't believe that crap is legal (if controlled, whatev) and pot isn't. It sort of pisses me off. just a little.

Not physically addictive (like opiates or nicotine) at all... psych addiction potential is supposed to be low because the effect decreases as use increases, and doing more doesn't help. At least that's how I remember it... I am going by info from way back in the '80s, from a friend who was involved in psych research at the time.

but then that is the catch no?

its so much easier to simply get high (or "stabel, or relieved, or stress free or or or), than to do the mental ditch diggin to start re-connecting the dots.

After all, this is America. we want it all, we want it NOW. Pick up the phone, call your dealer, and you got it.

Works the same way with Dr. Prescribed mood elevators/stabilizers.

do we really lean toward the goal of weaing ourselves OFF a particular chemical, or do we instead simply switch to something else. ?

not to mention, re-trained brains don't make much profit for Big Pharma. The ADHD treatment I mentioned WORKS... but as long as there's so much loot to be made on Ritalin, Concerta, Adderal, no one's ever gonna hear about it.

[Onyx]

not to mention, re-trained brains don't make much profit for Big Pharma. The ADHD treatment I mentioned WORKS... but as long as there's so much loot to be made on Ritalin, Concerta, Adderal, no one's ever gonna hear about it.

I really need to look into neurobiofeedback. My youngest child's teacher is insisting she needs Ritalin and I am not happy about doing it if there are alternatives that will work.

Any links to share on that?

[Rayne]

I really need to look into neurobiofeedback. My youngest child's teacher is insisting she needs Ritalin and I am not happy about doing it if there are alternatives that will work.

Any links to share on that?

We tried Psychologists and Psychiatrists for 3 years, behavioural modification and other sorts of stuff (ie. omitting certain things from her diet, increasing vitamins ... medical tests) before the decision was made to put my oldest daughter on medication.

I wouldn't take a teacher's recommendation personally. However, I would seek professional help because only doctors would be able to guide you in what is right for your children.

Also I'd like to note, with ADHD (and other issues) severe enough for medication, sometimes it takes several different medication changes to find the RIGHT one. Ritalin is not ALWAYS the answer.

[Steven]

Not physically addictive (like opiates or nicotine) at all... psych addiction potential is supposed to be low because the effect decreases as use increases, and doing more doesn't help. At least that's how I remember it... I am going by info from way back in the '80s, from a friend who was involved in psych research at the time.

not to mention, re-trained brains don't make much profit for Big Pharma. The ADHD treatment I mentioned WORKS... but as long as there's so much loot to be made on Ritalin, Concerta, Adderal, no one's ever gonna hear about it.

now your hearing me.

we live inside the machine.

the machine is designed to create/suggest/expose certain flaws within us, and then attatch them to our identities, so that we pass them on to our children, who in turn hand them down to theirs, etc etc etc. We receive our marching orders like good citizens.

I am not making a judgement with this statement - I am citing what I beleive is intentional and true.

And I am no doctor or behaviourist, but I tend to beleive the goal is accomplished by a combination of things, such as environmental poisening, stripping our processed diets down from early childhood of fiberless and crude units of filler that are devoid of true nutrional value and full of chemicals and hormones,

increasing the chemical intake of the parental units pre and post pregnancy, and the constant spinning of the media. We are being conditioned socially, and physically, psychologically, to break down generationally.

(I hear the sound of sheep......bah, bah, bah, bah.....)

And if any "cures" are "discoverd" or introduced, these are just short term propoganda devices to further perpetuate the "evidence" that we need help and are flawed.

[Steven]

My youngest child's teacher is insisting she needs Ritalin .....

Agents of fortune, that's what they are becoming sometimes.

Teachers at one time used to care about molding citizens of worth, knowledge had a purpose in giving back.

But they too are caught up in the machine. If they are going to survive, they too better do as they are told.

[bav]

An old friend was arrested once for selling E, he had Rehab among other leagal repucutions, he said one of the things he learned in rehab was this was used by marirage counselers to help couples get over things like Cheating, abuse, to be able to love again or feel that close intimate feeling one shares with a spouse. I would assume if that is true it may have been used the same way this New study suggests and may have had the similar results to what they expect to get.

I guess it goes some thing like this :

A wife discovers her husband cheated, she is upset and it is a very traumatic event for her, she loves her husband yet feels betrayed cant trust etc.... but does not want divorce but wants things back to "normal", her sense of intamcy with her husband had been ruined, take a little of this the Dr says and You'll feel the love.......

Ahhh....ok. Marital aid as in helping keep a marriage together tied into counciling, not as in a 'marital aid' like Viagra or vibrators.

[BrassFusion]

Agents of fortune, that's what they are becoming sometimes.

Teachers at one time used to care about molding citizens of worth, knowledge had a purpose in giving back.

But they too are caught up in the machine. If they are going to survive, they too better do as they are told.

hey dude... are YOU a teacher?

some kids do a whole lot better when they're on their "calm-down" drugs, and when they aren't, they make it impossible to teach the entire class.

i've never suggested medication in any case, that's just what i've noticed on my own.

[torn asunder]

hey dude... are YOU a teacher?

some kids do a whole lot better when they're on their "calm-down" drugs, and when they aren't, they make it impossible to teach the entire class.

i've never suggested medication in any case, that's just what i've noticed on my own.

just because they do "better" on drugs, doesn't mean it's right... hell, i'd be mellow as fuck on valium, i bet, but i wouldn't be worth a shit, either. i still think the behavior is learned, although i'm sure some have more of a propensity for disctractability than others...

[HipsterDufus]

now your hearing me.

we live inside the machine.

the machine is designed to create/suggest/expose certain flaws within us, and then attatch them to our identities, so that we pass them on to our children, who in turn hand them down to theirs, etc etc etc. We receive our marching orders like good citizens.

I am not making a judgement with this statement - I am citing what I beleive is intentional and true.

And I am no doctor or behaviourist, but I tend to beleive the goal is accomplished by a combination of things, such as environmental poisening, stripping our processed diets down from early childhood of fiberless and crude units of filler that are devoid of true nutrional value and full of chemicals and hormones,

increasing the chemical intake of the parental units pre and post pregnancy, and the constant spinning of the media. We are being conditioned socially, and physically, psychologically, to break down generationally.

(I hear the sound of sheep......bah, bah, bah, bah.....)

And if any "cures" are "discoverd" or introduced, these are just short term propoganda devices to further perpetuate the "evidence" that we need help and are flawed.

Generally speaking, real personal freedom is the antithesis of what the government and large corporations want for humanity. Those that think for themselves are hard to market to, hard to profit from, and hard to control. So, it's in their best interest to make us fat and drugged, making us docile, tame, and easily led.

[BrassFusion]

just because they do "better" on drugs, doesn't mean it's right... hell, i'd be mellow as fuck on valium, i bet, but i wouldn't be worth a shit, either. i still think the behavior is learned, although i'm sure some have more of a propensity for disctractability than others...

it's not just black and white. i have kids who love me AND my class and like their fellow students, they just have a ridiculously hard time focusing. i am very sure that they've been coddled and spoiled by their parents and that's why they act the way they do, but knowing the source of the problem doesn't solve it.

these are kids who are young teenagers, most of the time. kids who should've learned when it's important to pay attention by their age. i don't think drugs are the best solution to their problems, but i wouldn't rule them out when they work as well as they do.