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Bush Just Really Really Can't Admit He's Wrong

BrassFusion

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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You and Tina are losing me here. What's to respect about spewing bullshit to the American people? I would wager that if we had the ability to eavesdrop on the White House, we would find out that his motivations have exactly zero to do with all the noble notions he blabs about on the TV. Are you thinking that there's something to win here? Are you thinking that it's the honorable thing to do to clean up the mess you make? In this situation, there is NOTHING to win but more bodies coming home dead. There is NOTHING honorable about continuing to perpetuate a situation we can't fix. The longer we occupy their country, the more they resent us, and the more the insurgents find ways to kill our soldiers and their own countrymen. George Bush and his administration should be tossed in jail for starting this false war and causing the deaths of thousands of people. Meanwhile, we haven't done shit to find Bin Laden... the real perpetrator of 9/11.

My nod of respect toward Tina (hence my only reply to her post being that of "respect") was exactly that - respect for placing her point of view in the center of a much more hostile peer group.

Moving onward to the rest....

I have previously stated that I have mixed emotions about the whole Iraq situation, and that originally I was in support of it but now I am dissapointed overall in how this entire endevour was managed, or mismanaged.

Bear in mind also that I am in favor of a strong military presence and that I think that is an important element to any adminsitration. And add to it also, that I used to be a soldier. Add to it also that I used to work in homeland security as a civilian with a K9 Bomb Dog, my last gig being at the IRS Building in Detroit.

My resistance to Erin's flippancy (with a dash of humor) was that its not as simple as it seems on the surface.

has there been bullshit? Im sure there has. But I also know that there is a great deal that the american public never knows. And I DO wish this war would end, because were ill equipped to maintain western order in this region that has known nothign but disorder. But I also dont beleive we can pack it all in by Tuesday without repercussion.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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Are they waiting for a rainbow of peace and love to spread over the region and everyone in the region to become born-again?

this - was what I was referring to in my Dumb Ass comment to Erin, Marc. Of course eh's no dummy. but this one had the sarcastic ring of dumb ass attatched to it. Erin, I love you.

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BrassFusion Newbie

BrassFusion

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this - was what I was referring to in my Dumb Ass comment to Erin, Marc. Of course eh's no dummy. but this one had the sarcastic ring of dumb ass attatched to it. Erin, I love you.

I don't see what was dumbass about that statement. IF a rainbow of peace and love spread out across the desert sky and everyone miraculously converted to Christianity, you can bet the war would be over.

But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. So what ARE we, the American people, holding our breath for?

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odims_sphere Newbie

odims_sphere

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I don't see what was dumbass about that statement. IF a rainbow of peace and love spread out across the desert sky and everyone miraculously converted to Christianity, you can bet the war would be over.

But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. So what ARE we, the American people, holding our breath for?

Kittens! :peanutbutterjellytime :happydance

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Msterbeau Collaborator

Msterbeau

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Steven... I can understand your reaction to Erin's comment. But what cha gunna do? it's Erin... *shrugs*

The whole strong military thing is a paradox to me. On the one hand, I doubt we could have gotten through the cold war intact without it. The deterrent effect worked. The trickle down from the technological development that goes along with maintaining superior weapons has also benefited this country. But that era is long over, and we no longer require that amount of firepower.. Which is not to say we don't need a military... just that our needs have changed and why put a zillion dollars into it when there are greater needs for the funds? And please don't cite the manpower shortages of this current war as justifying a larger force. This war should never have happened. Period. Deterring Iran and North Korea doesn't take that many weapons/nukes in our arsenal either. Much of what we need for our security needs now lies within police-type work not military.

Back to Bush. This whole Gonzalez thing is yet another reminder that Bush's administration never seems to learn a thing. They want to make all the rules, to their advantage. They don't want to tell anybody anything unless you drag them kicking and screaming. Truth and transparency have no meaning to them. They keep telling us to trust them but that trust was gone before they ever hit the White House.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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Steven... I can understand your reaction to Erin's comment. But what cha gunna do? it's Erin... *shrugs*

The whole strong military thing is a paradox to me. On the one hand, I doubt we could have gotten through the cold war intact without it. The deterrent effect worked. The trickle down from the technological development that goes along with maintaining superior weapons has also benefited this country. But that era is long over, and we no longer require that amount of firepower.. Which is not to say we don't need a military... just that our needs have changed and why put a zillion dollars into it when there are greater needs for the funds? And please don't cite the manpower shortages of this current war as justifying a larger force. This war should never have happened. Period. Deterring Iran and North Korea doesn't take that many weapons/nukes in our arsenal either. Much of what we need for our security needs now lies within police-type work not military.

Back to Bush. This whole Gonzalez thing is yet another reminder that Bush's administration never seems to learn a thing. They want to make all the rules, to their advantage. They don't want to tell anybody anything unless you drag them kicking and screaming. Truth and transparency have no meaning to them. They keep telling us to trust them but that trust was gone before they ever hit the White House.

you make good points about the Paradox. I dont have an answer for you here....

and I also acknowledge more than a hint of corruption on the part of this adminsitration

but Erin has me stumped.

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JaneDead Newbie

JaneDead

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How can you agree that it's possible to achieve a victory on no specific terms? Are they waiting for a rainbow of peace and love to spread over the region and everyone in the region to become born-again?

i don't think they are waiting for that. i am sure he is waiting to get each and every one of the last "evil-doers" in world. and then he'd like to give the world a coke and teach them how to sing.

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the eternal Newbie

the eternal

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I love the arc of these threads:

1. Liberal or conservative makes point

2. Liberals and conservatives make arguments at a ratio of 10 to 1 (10 liberals to 1 conservative)

When no conservatives are available, the part of the conservative gets played by Steven,

the dignified right- leaning moderate.

3. Everyone gets exhausted and starts joking to deflate the tension.

4. Sexual mayhem ensues

(OK maybe not 4.)

I was about to go on a masturbatory rant

about how Marc and I are right and Marblez and Steven and Odims are wrong,

and Erin was a little too flip and simplistic in her assessment

ESP. considering Iraq was not a hotbed of terrorist activity before we arrived,

and THUS bore Bean to death since she hates politics, but is addicted to my rambling

(That's where all her pictures of looking down and bored come from, if you were wondering)

but she just called to remind me that I'm going to lose my job if I keep coming on here spewing verbal vomit to people that will remain with their same views intact even after being subjected to my projectile typing :wave

Thanks anyway, though. :wink

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