Bush Just Really Really Can't Admit He's Wrong

[BrassFusion]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/20/wit...eref=rss_latest

In his speech Monday, Bush alluded to polls that show weakening public support for the war.

"It can be tempting to look at the challenges in Iraq and conclude our best option is to pack up and go home," he said. "That may be satisfying in the short run, but I believe the consequences for American security would be devastating."

If U.S. forces were to leave Baghdad, he said, "a contagion of violence could spill out across the entire country ... [and] could engulf the region. ... We cannot allow this to happen."

Bush said victory remains possible in Iraq.

"Four years after this war began, the fight is difficult, but it can be won," he said.

So when he declared victory like... was it 3 or so years ago, about? Was it because we captured their flag or something? And now they got it back so game's back on till we recapture the flag and claim victory again?

I don't care if the asshole wants to keep throwing troops out there (well, I KINDA care)... What I want is justification. I want is a set of VICTORY CONDITIONS, cuz you can't have a fucking victory without them in ANY case.

Nah. Asking for victory conditions probably wouldn't work. It'd sound too much like a pullout strategy.

Does anyone know if there ARE any victory conditions in Iraq right now? Please share.

[Msterbeau]

So violence hasn't already spread across Iraq already? And... the initial justifications for going over there because of Al queda were a joke then and look downright ridiculous now. I think W and his cabinet should go live there a while and experience the disaster he caused first hand. He's had people bailing him out of his messes his whole life. When's it gonna stop?

[phee]

At this point... nothing about that man surprises me...

I was watching a clip of Donald Rumsfeld from 2003 saying that at most the war would last 6 more months and probably only weeks....

This administration is arrogent... let me expound on that EVERY administration is arrogent... this one is arrogent, unrepentant, greedy, etc... the list goes on and on...

[Marblez]

In his speech Monday, Bush alluded to polls that show weakening public support for the war.

"It can be tempting to look at the challenges in Iraq and conclude our best option is to pack up and go home," he said. "That may be satisfying in the short run, but I believe the consequences for American security would be devastating."

If U.S. forces were to leave Baghdad, he said, "a contagion of violence could spill out across the entire country ... [and] could engulf the region. ... We cannot allow this to happen."

Bush said victory remains possible in Iraq.

"Four years after this war began, the fight is difficult, but it can be won," he said.

I agree with his statements.

[BrassFusion]

How can you agree that it's possible to achieve a victory on no specific terms? Are they waiting for a rainbow of peace and love to spread over the region and everyone in the region to become born-again?

[Steven]

I agree with his statements.

[BrassFusion]

How can you agree that it's possible to achieve a victory on no specific terms? Are they waiting for a rainbow of peace and love to spread over the region and everyone in the region to become born-again?

[Head Wreck]

i'm a little concerned as us brits are pulling out of iraq (probably something about not liking being shot at by US airpower or twitchy troops not used to policing work (in some respects were lucky we've had northern ireland fueled with american money to deal with))

but i hear also the US are pulling out of afganistan, and were pilling more in.

[Steven]

How can you agree that it's possible to achieve a victory on no specific terms? Are they waiting for a rainbow of peace and love to spread over the region and everyone in the region to become born-again?

please Babe, use that impressive brain of yours. Dont make me call you a dumb ass again. It pains me so.....

[BrassFusion]

please Babe, use that impressive brain of yours. Dont make me call you a dumb ass again. It pains me so.....

No PLEASE PLEASE call me a dumbass again if you follow it with some projected victory condition in this fucking unwinnable war! SOMEONE has to have an idea what we're doing over there... right?

[torn asunder]

How can you agree that it's possible to achieve a victory on no specific terms?

a valid point - without defined/defineable goals you have nothing to acheive, and no way to reach them...

that's like saying, "i'm going to run a race tomorrow and i'm going for a personal record" and when someone asks you "what kind of race" you can't tell them because you don't know whether it's a 100yds, a mile, or a hundred miles... when is the race complete? how do you time a personal record if you don't know when you get to stop?

[Msterbeau]

I think W is hoping nobody will notice that whole specific terms thing... Sadly, a lot of people won't.

[Steven]

No PLEASE PLEASE call me a dumbass again if you follow it with some projected victory condition in this fucking unwinnable war! SOMEONE has to have an idea what we're doing over there... right?

stop.

you know why I said that.

[Head Wreck]

its a victory dammit, anyone who disagrees isnt american and is allied with the terriers (of the yorkshire veriety)

[Hellion]

Just wait until the rest of our corporations are sold to China,if I can find the story on Yahoo,it is about the war being used as a diversion,to take people minds off the sale of most of America.it was a few weeks ago on Yahoo,news,it seemed to make alot of sense.but who knows.

[Msterbeau]

stop.

you know why I said that.

You and Tina are losing me here. What's to respect about spewing bullshit to the American people? I would wager that if we had the ability to eavesdrop on the White House, we would find out that his motivations have exactly zero to do with all the noble notions he blabs about on the TV. Are you thinking that there's something to win here? Are you thinking that it's the honorable thing to do to clean up the mess you make? In this situation, there is NOTHING to win but more bodies coming home dead. There is NOTHING honorable about continuing to perpetuate a situation we can't fix. The longer we occupy their country, the more they resent us, and the more the insurgents find ways to kill our soldiers and their own countrymen. George Bush and his administration should be tossed in jail for starting this false war and causing the deaths of thousands of people. Meanwhile, we haven't done shit to find Bin Laden... the real perpetrator of 9/11.

[GOREgeouslyDecorated]

In the words of Lewis Black:

"... Our President is retarded. Most people don't think that the word 'retard' is politically correct. But when the President opens his mouth and BULLSHIT comes out, I think that qualifies..."

[Msterbeau]

Nor does he like to be accountable:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...ft=1&f=1001

[odims_sphere]

I'm not saying Bush is right, or wrong but you have to realize that he has more information on the subject than any of us do, and as a matter of national security he can't tell us. Hell there's things I can't tell you, and I'm not the president. Just because he's a bad public speaker doesn't mean he's wrong. Sometimes we have to trust that he's making the right choices based on the fact that he's got absolutely the most information available to make the decision. I know I don't.

[BrassFusion]

I'm not saying Bush is right, or wrong but you have to realize that he has more information on the subject than any of us do, and as a matter of national security he can't tell us. Hell there's things I can't tell you, and I'm not the president. Just because he's a bad public speaker doesn't mean he's wrong. Sometimes we have to trust that he's making the right choices based on the fact that he's got absolutely the most information available to make the decision. I know I don't.

I agree that we don't have the same intelligence, but it's past the point we should trust him with command of our forces, in my opinion. His justification for going to war in the first place was completely manufactured and that's been publicly acknowledged for at least two years now, right?

He's a horrible public speaker, yes... but it's what he's NOT saying that I'm concerned about. If the war has a justification, fine. It's our business to know because WE elect those who perpetuate it.

[odims_sphere]

Or the justification in and of it's self is a matter of OPSEC. If I can't tell people how many soldiers are in my unit, I can only imagine what he can't tell us. Don't get me wrong I'd rather hear "I can't tell you" than some made up bullshit. I don't like being lied to.

[BrassFusion]

Or the justification in and of it's self is a matter of OPSEC. If I can't tell people how many soldiers are in my unit, I can only imagine what he can't tell us. Don't get me wrong I'd rather hear "I can't tell you" than some made up bullshit. I don't like being lied to.

Well, that's what he did. So where does that leave us? We have to trust that putting more troops in Iraq is in our nation's best interest? He's already proven he can't be trusted.

[odims_sphere]

Well, that's what he did. So where does that leave us? We have to trust that putting more troops in Iraq is in our nation's best interest? He's already proven he can't be trusted.

I Agree, But condem him for being a liar, we don't have enough information to determin if he is acting in the best intrests of the united states people or not. In my opnion there is no politician that can be trusted.

[BrassFusion]

True, but we can't let them just do whatever the hell they want all the time. 95% of the time, their motivation is greed. W is no Jack Bauer.

[odims_sphere]

I hear that. Please understand I'm not defending him, I just don't believe I have enough information to judge him. To me he's no different than any other politician. However it is our jobs as citizens to question our leadership to keep them as honest as possible, as difficult as that task may be.