What is your favorite Goth subgenre?

[JaneDead]

what is "future pop"? i have not heard that term before.

[sinmantyx]

As a joke, I once wrote a synthpop track. Then, I upped the BPM 15 points, and applied some distortion, and made myself an EBM track. Then I upped it 15 more BPM, and applied heavy distortion and made myself a power noise track. Then I applied a solid, heavy clipping distorition and made a noise track. I may release that sometime for shits and giggles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I MUST HEAR THIS!

[phee]

FLA and Front 242 are definitely EBM

I know that FLA calls themselves Industrial pretty strictly for whatever there opinion is worth, they refer to themselves as "Industrial" several times within there CD liner notes... but I suppose that you could be right and they could be wrong, then again, I kinda lean towards the "no one can catagorize" and "no one can own the term" philosophy myself so I don't think that they can own the phraze either.

what is "future pop"? i have not heard that term before

I don't know exactly what this catagory "means" but VNV I believe invented this phrase in reference to themselves

[sinmantyx]

The people that own the words are the people that write the books to tell future generations what the words mean.

It won't get all sorted out until musicologists give a shit; and college students in 2098 are writing "retrospectives" on it.

You have to give a certain amount of credence to the people who actually *COIN* the phases we are discussing though. However, like the old arrogant prick Wagner, sometime people just coin music catagories just to seem all important...and pretend like they are special.

Musicians and composers really haven't changed much. I track "industrial" way back to the early 1900's and the first "industrial" revolution. As it has been a practice in almost all cultures to mimic in their music the sounds within their environment (most noteably the "horse-people" in southern China/northeast Russia); "industrial" and "noise" were very closely related, as they both included the appreciation of the sounds of the "future" which are the sounds of the "machine" which were new and interesting to the people of the time. Several years later, Throbbing Gristle picked up the mast and called it "industrial" and Merzbow picked up the mast and called it "noise". All the while, people like Varessa, Frank Zappa, Trent Reznor and whomever began to realize (as Beethoven did with respect to the use of dissonance.....considered "noise" in his day) that the integration of "noise timbres" within traditional musical structures really kicked ass.........which is where you get almost all of your modern popular music; as everyone and their dog jumped on board and now every guitarists has a distortion pedal and every electronic musician has a sample of a choo-choo train convolved with a baby crying (oh shit...that would be sweeett).

I don't agree with Daniel that once "industrial" becomes "conventional" it is no longer "industrial"...is it just no longer "anti-art" or "dada" or "futurist" at it's conception....just like "pedal noise" is still noise, even though it has become quite conventional. Unless you meant to say, traditionally conventional music is not industrial....then I agree.

oh...and to the thread....

Iheartsynthpop

...because "I-I-I....waited here all this time"

(The people's ovation and fame forever to the first person who can name that one!....oops! Wrong thread!)

[Fierce Critter]

That is ringing SUCH a bell... but I think it's one of those songs I know, but don't know the artist.

Nevermind. I'm thinking of a totally different song, but now THAT one is bugging me. New thread a coming...

[Daniel]

I know that FLA calls themselves Industrial pretty strictly for whatever there opinion is worth, they refer to themselves as "Industrial" several times within there CD liner notes... but I suppose that you could be right and they could be wrong, then again, I kinda lean towards the "no one can catagorize" and "no one can own the term" philosophy myself so I don't think that they can own the phraze either.

Yeah, I'm not aloud to make jokes on this message board. So, I can't discuss FLA fairly. We will leave it at "FLA is not a credible source". =)

I don't know exactly what this catagory "means" but VNV I believe invented this phrase in reference to themselves

I was told VNV hates being called future pop. But then... what do I know? Actually, I have exchanged emails with Ronin initiating dialogue in an attempt to book them for the DEMF, (he is a nice, professional guy), and people involved with that negotiation told me this. But, again, what do I know?

I don't agree with Daniel that once "industrial" becomes "conventional" it is no longer "industrial"...is it just  no longer "anti-art" or "dada" or "futurist" at it's conception....just like "pedal noise" is still noise, even though it has become quite conventional.  Unless you meant to say, traditionally conventional music is not industrial....then I agree.

I don't really think there is a definite "industrial" sound. If the music you are talking about is conventional, it likely isn't industrial. Noise is a little different because it is clearly defined by sounds and styles.

As a side note, noise conventions will always likely be relative to noise music. I don't think noise music will ever be a real convention outside of itself, heh. To people familiar with noise, there are cliches and redundancies. To people not familiar with it, it generally is "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU LISTENING TO?!?" I have a guy I work with who is all into noise, and all the hip-hop/rap dudes are always blowing him shit, trying to get him to tune it to a real station.

[sinmantyx]

hahahahah

yeah, my friends are planning a (I have no idea if they are actually going to do this...but I have learned not to call my friend Ryan's bluf)

"concert to piss off marian"

...in which they will get several lawnmowers together and various other impliments to make "noise" for me. They make fun of me all the time.

I guess I have weird definitions of "conventional" and "traditional". Back when I was an undergrad, I made my audio recording teacher's day when I said I wanted to mic a "traditional" set-up of a drum kit, guitars, and vocals. In a school where the "traditional" orchestral music people were at the throats of the music industry people....it was quite a treat to be called "traditional" rock musicians apparently.

Iheartalternative

...cause Robert Smith says "It feels good!"

[Black Sunday]

I'm the only person you've met who thinks future pop and synthpop don't sound the same?

I don't think they sound entirely different, but I know tons of synthpop purist who think it's completely different.

But as a purely shallow observation, Yazoo doesn't sound anything like VNV Nation. Generally I'd say stuff like Apop, VNV and Covenant are a bit more aggressive and trance influenced than say, Cosmicity or Joy Electric.

But I'm not gonna really argue the differences because I don't care too much about labels. The debate can rage on for 300 pages with no conclusion.

[Daniel]

I'm the only person you've met who thinks future pop and synthpop don't sound the same? 

I don't think they sound entirely different, but I know tons of synthpop purist who think it's completely different.

But as a purely shallow observation, Yazoo doesn't sound anything like VNV Nation.  Generally I'd say stuff like Apop, VNV and Covenant are a bit more aggressive and trance influenced than say, Cosmicity or Joy Electric.   

But I'm not gonna really argue the differences because I don't care too much about labels.  The debate can rage on for 300 pages with no conclusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not really in any position to debate Future pop vs Synthpop. I ask because I really do not know, and I really don't know anyone who knows the difference. Honestly, the people I know who are really into that stuff have adamantly told me they are two terms for the same thing, but again, I'm in no position to debate this point. I would just like to hear what seperates the two stylistically.

Personally, I thought Apop, Covenant, VNV were EBM until one day, some people interjected and told me "not so!", hell, I don't know. I can sooner analyze the differences between the specific bands than I can those particular genres. I've only listened to that stuff on a cursory level, via promos and for performance consideration. I've never listened to it because I really wanted to.

[Helix Heterodox]

Influenced by Phee's thread in the movies forum.....

......ok no debate here on what is and isn't goth.....just tell me what is the style of music you're most into that is related to the 'goth' scene?

"Classic Goth" like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Clan of Xymox, Lycia

"Industrial" like Skinny Puppy, KMFDM, Ministry

"EBM or Future Pop" like Apoptygma Bezerk, VNV Nation, Covenant

"Synthpop" like Depeche Mode, De/Vision, Wolfsheim

"other" please explain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Examples

Goth-Rock : Bahaus, Fields of the Nephilim

Industrial: Skinny Puppy, Frontline Assembly

- EBM : Front 242, CCCP, Clock DVA

- New Beat : Poesie Noire, Newscene

Industrial gets used as a blanket term for EBM, and Newbeat...far to often

Thats like calling everything in the 80s "RETRO"

Synth-pop: Erasure, Depeche Mode, Peter Schilling

My fav is EBM & Synth-pop .........old skool!!

[bav]

My real gripe with EBM/synthpop/et al is the ridiculous over saturation of it. I used to be able to handle that shit in moderate doses (in 1996). Now that it has become so ubiquitous with "the scene", it makes me sick to my stomach. There are other beats you can dance to besides four-to-the-floor crap. I wonder if it's just some weird uncoordinated-white-people-in-a-dark-cave-of-a-club thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You speak of Caucasian Rhythm Disorder.

[LuluVox]

You speak of Caucasian Rhythm Disorder.

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That sounds like it should have been the name of a band in 1994.

[JaneDead]

hehe

[Rozzlyn]

Whatever The Fall, Shadow Project and Danielle Dax are.

[sinmantyx]

Interested in Industrial? Here is the conversation on the noiseboard:

Is Industrial Noise?

and to the thread...

Iheartemo

...oh wait...I really don't...and it's so depressed about it...

so sad.