I Am Just Crawling Into A Hole And Hiding.

[phee]

You guys don't let kids drive untill they are what? 18? and you want everyone at school to carry a gun? How responsible do you think children are? The less guns that are out there, the less of this will happen. Period.

Indeed... more guns = more shooting = more death...

[glc]

Of course it take a certain type of maniac to do what these people do, nobody will ever disagree with that, but the sheer fact that you guys have got so many of these "tools", and that they are so common, makes it much easier for the maniacs to get hold of them, regardless of the rest of the populations safe handling.

regarding the laws over here, I'm not sure exaclty how it works. but there are a huge amount of restrictions. you can't carry them on your person. they have to be locked in a safe. you have to be a member of a gun club, and shoot a certain amount of times per year. lots and lots of restricions.

We barely have anything to do with them, and as such, have a much lower rate of incidents involving them.

[Homicidalheathen]

Our laws very GREATLY from state to state. The west is still the wild west at least it was when I was there....open gun laws. As long as it was on your dash or seat next to you in the car it was ok even.

You can carry one like a cop though...as long as it can be seen.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/#?st=AZ

[sinmantyx]

Does this really need to be so politicized?

This is what we call a "sample space of one"...a freak event that should be given meaning in-and-of itself...NOT used as a spring-board for any particular agenda (even those we may agree with).

For chrissake, some of my husband's coworkers are making this into an immigration issue.

How fucking sad.

The only way to prevent ANY such tragedies from ever happening EVER by ANY means is to (as the topic says) "crawl into a hole and hide". I'm not going to do that, so I just make peace with the fact that some troubled soul might take me and the people I love out with him or her one day. I'm much more likely to die horribly in a car accident or drop dead because I sat down too long and got a blood clot in my brain.

We'll never live in a completely safe world without sacrificing life itself. If we can learn from this, great. However, this is not the time to hammer out emotionally charged reactionary policies. This is the time to do what we can for those who have been directly impacted by a horrible event...prayers, thoughts, money, whatever.

[glc]

Sorry If I'm pissing people off here, it's just something I feel strongly about. I know how you guys seem to love your guns, and you've got the whole gun culture thing going on, but I just don't get the fascination. If you want a hobby, play an instrument, or make some art or something. Something constructive.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Gun Control... yes.. take away all the guns from law abiding cistizens... Forget what the 2 Admendment was really about. Then, when the peole cant defend themselves from the oppresive government.. then the real control can start... start up the internment camps... fir up those ovens... Complete Gun control was Hitlers first step... but lets forget that.. history is best left forgetten in dusty tombs rather than learned from... Forget that the places with the least amount of Gun related deaths have the loosest gun control laws. I mean really.. noone ever killed anyone else before guns were invented. No, don't contridict that.. history is all lies.. Guns are bad and getting rid of all of them will solve all of our problems. It's worked so well in D.C. A private citizen isn't allowed to own a hand gun there and look how the number of gun related deaths there has dropped... oh wait... they went way up... nevermind... Well,florida supports the Gun control lobby.. They have really loose control laws in that state and the number of deaths by gun went... oh wait.. they went down...

Guns dont kill. people do. Take away a maniacs gun and he/she will find another way to kill. There are lots of them. Hell, we invent more ways to kill each other all the time... Hell, 9/11 was pulled off with 2.5inch razor blades. One gun on the plane copuld hav stopped it... One armed professors could have stopeed this tragidy.

[sinmantyx]

Sorry If I'm pissing people off here, it's just something I feel strongly about. I know how you guys seem to love your guns, and you've got the whole gun culture thing going on, but I just don't get the fascination. If you want a hobby, play an instrument, or make some art or something. Something constructive.

In general principle: I'm totally with you. Gun regulation such as requiring safety training, licencing, waiting periods, background checks...done in a reasonable way...I'm all for it. I'm not a big gun-buff, but I lived in the country where having a gun was practically manditory (a needed tool). It doesn't take anything away from the lawful sane gun-buff to have to do some paperwork.

There are plenty of good arguments for those policies. Something this anamolous and emotionally charged probably isn't a good case study...simply because it's so uncommon, as well as so fresh in everyone's mind. There are other more common incidents and studies/statistics that can be used to make a good case for certain gun control policies.

[Homicidalheathen]

All I know is.....the criminals have them here so I want one too. Cops are never there when you need them. To busy at Detroit Donuts.

[sinmantyx]

Gun Control... yes.. take away all the guns from law abiding cistizens... Forget what the 2 Admendment was really about. Then, when the peole cant defend themselves from the oppresive government.. then the real control can start... start up the internment camps... fir up those ovens... Complete Gun control was Hitlers first step... but lets forget that.. history is best left forgetten in dusty tombs rather than learned from... Forget that the places with the least amount of Gun related deaths have the loosest gun control laws. I mean really.. noone ever killed anyone else before guns were invented. No, don't contridict that.. history is all lies.. Guns are bad and getting rid of all of them will solve all of our problems. It's worked so well in D.C. A private citizen isn't allowed to own a hand gun there and look how the number of gun related deaths there has dropped... oh wait... they went way up... nevermind... Well,florida supports the Gun control lobby.. They have really loose control laws in that state and the number of deaths by gun went... oh wait.. they went down...

Guns dont kill. people do. Take away a maniacs gun and he/she will find another way to kill. There are lots of them. Hell, we invent more ways to kill each other all the time... Hell, 9/11 was pulled off with 2.5inch razor blades. One gun on the plane copuld hav stopped it... One armed professors could have stopeed this tragidy.

Godwin's law: you lose. You are also straw-maning the living shit out of other people's views. It's annoying. Also, if people insist on making this a "gun control" thread you can start citing sources at any moment.

PS: I'm a prof. I'm NOT carrying a gun...try and make me. We have armed security on campus: I'm totally cool with that.

[phee]

Of course it take a certain type of maniac to do what these people do, nobody will ever disagree with that, but the sheer fact that you guys have got so many of these "tools", and that they are so common, makes it much easier for the maniacs to get hold of them, regardless of the rest of the populations safe handling.

regarding the laws over here, I'm not sure exaclty how it works. but there are a huge amount of restrictions. you can't carry them on your person. they have to be locked in a safe. you have to be a member of a gun club, and shoot a certain amount of times per year. lots and lots of restricions.

We barely have anything to do with them, and as such, have a much lower rate of incidents involving them.

I am in agreement sir.... we are like minded in this I can tell

[glc]

Exactly. The criminals have them, so I want one too. to protect myself. That's what has perpetuated this whole thing. that, and "it's my right to own a gun and protect myself".

There are always going to be fucked up people, who are going to kill people, by any means possible. be that with a gun, or with some other impliment. btw, I dobut that these mass killings would have been so mass, if they had a knife, or a baseball bat, or a razorblade.

It's difficult to take guns away from such a proud culture. How do you even begin to combat this.

you can either 1. take guns away, or 2. buy more guns. buy bigger guns. which one is easier? duh?

It's like trying to take our bbq's or beaches away! it's not gonna happen. there needs to be a MASS change in attitude to make this sort of tragedy less common. and I don't see it happening. How many people have to die?

[glc]

I am in agreement sir.... we are like minded in this I can tell

I'm getting pretty worked up man! can you tell!!!

[n0Mad]

Taken from my LiveJournal:

Is The Answer More Guns?

As I read the articles covering the terrible tragedy that happened in Virginia, every reporter seemed to have the same idea: more and stricter gun control laws. They say that it's too easy to get a gun in America and with all these guns it's no surprise that all these shootings happen. They surmise that with less guns, then less gun crimes will occur. I disagree.

In the articles covering the recent shooting in Troy, LaCalamita tried to purchase a handgun but was denied. So, he bought a shotgun instead. Had that been denied, he probably would've bought a knife or just used one from his kitchen. Failing that, a baseball bat, lead pipe, candlestick, rope, more Clue weapons, or even his bare hands. This attack was premeditated and LaCalamita would've went through with it no matter what roadblocks were put in his way.

I feel the same thing would've happened with the Virginia shootings. He chained the doors shut to prevent students from escaping and police from entering. This shows a plan. He thought this out. If he didn't have access to guns, my guess is he would've used an axe. More laws to restrict firearms? Well, there's already several laws that state a person cannot possess or carry a firearm on school property. Those laws didn't stop the shooter so why would any others? Those laws did stop one thing though and I'll get to that in a moment.

What if every student on campus was carrying a concealed handgun? Fuckhead enters the classroom, pulls out his guns, and shoots the teacher. What happens next? That's right, the other students draw their weapons and the shooting stops before it can become a spree. But, as utopian as this idea is, it would never work because of those pesky laws stating that people cannot possess and carry firearms on school property. A responsible and trained citizen with a legal and valid CCW license and firearm would feel helpless to stop what he or she knows he could've stopped because the student is a law abider and properly left the firearm at home where the law says is belongs.

So, will more gun control laws and restrictions stop the violence? No, it will continue to go on. But it will stop the people who are able to stop the violence from doing so.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Godwin can kiss my ass. Truth is Truth.. deal with it. BTW.. not all profs are anti gun.. infact there are Profs on the boob tube right now asking for the right to carry a gun on campus.

BTW, you dont like my posts... ignore me. if you find me annoying, ignore me... I'll post what I feel like posting. It's on topic, don't like the topic.. deal with it. I refuse to edit my posts to fit your narrow view of how things should be.

[phee]

Cool... but I must agree... Myself mainly threadjacked this pretty hard... and I do apologize

[n0Mad]

Phee jacked what hard?

[glc]

try killing 33 people with an axe. I'm sure some one will stop you after one or two. fuck, you can kill someone with a fishing rod, but guns just do a particularly good job at it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Fine... I could kill even more with one blow of an axe. i only need to hit the propane tank hard enough to cause a spark and break the valve. Or maybe i could just buy a gallon of bleach for $1 and a gallon of Amonia for a coupe more... I'm pretty sure I could find a mop bucket to pour them into near a air conditioer....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

My point is... Guns are not the easyest/cheapest way to kill a lot of people. If someone want to kill a large numbe rof people... a gun is really a bad choice. Real thought will show you that there are many ways to kill and some are damn easy to get your hands on.

[glc]

easier just to pop a few rounds off though 'ey? although the propane tank would be spectacular

[n0Mad]

never mind

[glc]

ok!

[BrassFusion]

gaf, you're really out of your league here. you know that there are long term continuous experiments in stricter gun control laws (hint: they're other english speaking nations, many of them) that are working compared to OUR system.

and if you wanted to go on a killing spree, you'd use a 30.06 or an assault rifle, if you could get one. don't play dumb.

[Homicidalheathen]

No, THIS would be spectacular.... :fear :erm

I love flame throwers

[Homicidalheathen]

O0oh

I just want to play with it. Maybe scorch a dead tree or a abandoned house thats empty