I Am Just Crawling Into A Hole And Hiding.

[sinmantyx]

Jacketed hollow points aren't "safer" than penetrating... considering they do more damage to whatever fleshy thing they hit. But they sure as hell wouldn't breach an airplane hull.

The point of a gun is not the safety of the person you are pointing it at...generally. If you are worried about their safety -- you certainly shouldn't be using a gun. Hear about the little girl who was shot by her brother with a BB gun -- and killed. A bullet from a .22 ricocheting in your chest cavity will fuck you up as well. Heck, even blanks are dangerous. A television star died from firing a blank near his head on set (when I was young) because he didn't realize that the pressure alone could kill him. He thought it would be a funny joke.

The development of effective non-lethal weapons is gaining some ground, however. Then we can start worrying about who we are pointing the weapon at. Otherwise, talking about the safety of the target is pretty moot.

[BrassFusion]

Why don't we have long-range stun weapons yet?

[Msterbeau]

Why don't we have long-range stun weapons yet?

Why do we need them at all? Ever.

That's a rhetorical question, BTW.

[bav]

Of course the World Trade Center bombings Virginia Tech massacre is a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. However, we must also consider if this is not also a lesson to us all; a lesson that my political views are correct. Although what is done can never be undone, the fact remains that if the world were organised according to my political views, this tragedy would never have happened.

Many people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my being. Those people who have different political views from me ought to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which ought to be advanced.

Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy, but also the status of my profession. Furthermore, it is only in the context of a national and international tragedy like this that we are reminded of the very special status of my hobby, and its particular claim to legislative protection. My religious and spiritual views also have much to teach us about the appropriate reaction to these truly terrible events.

Countries which I like seem to never suffer such tragedies, while countries which, for one reason or another, I dislike, suffer them all the time. The one common factor which seems to explain this has to do with my political views, and it suggests that my political views should be implemented as a matter of urgency, even though they are, as a matter of fact, not implemented in the countries which I like.

Of course the World Trade Center attacks Virginia Tech massacre is a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. But we must also not lose sight of the fact that I am right on every significant moral and political issue, and everybody ought to agree with me. Please, I ask you as fellow human beings, vote for the political party which I support, and ask your legislators to support policies endorsed by me, as a matter of urgency.

It would be a fitting memorial.

- slightly modified from Why the Bombings Mean That We Must Support My Politics

[BrassFusion]

bravo!

[sinmantyx]

- slightly modified from Why the Bombings Mean That We Must Support My Politics

That's brilliant. May I repost it elsewhere? If so, to whom should I give credit? jsm?

[bav]

That's brilliant. May I repost it elsewhere? If so, to whom should I give credit? jsm?

I originally found it through Boing Boing, so I personally have no issues with x-posting. I would say JSM and a link to it would work as credit =)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Just wanted to point out a fact.. so few have been presented...

There are armed marshals on planes everyday, have been since 9/11. There are armed police on planes everyday and always have been.

to answer a direct question... I am for limited gun control. Smart gun control. The system we have now is pretty good but flawed. Somethings are left out of the back ground checks that would have stopped this attack. Like.. if you check yourself into a mental institute (which this guy did two years ago) it wont show up. So, no matter how crazy the docs felt you were or how danguors they found you.. you still get a gun. That needs fixed. That would not be the same as a new control, just a tweaking of an exiting one.

and Brass.. if I were going on a killing spree, I would not use a gun. At best, a gun in two bodys per shot.. and thats damn rare. It also dones;t exaclty say anything other than "generic wacko". If I go postal, it will be a spectical. A person could kill thousands with a couple pounds of dynomite planted on the right natural gas pipeline or under one of the 20,000 gallon propane tanks at filling stations. Not that i am ever going to.. but if i did... I would do it with style.

but on topic. this man was nuts. There were shit loads of warning signs. Our system failed to see him for what he was and now we have to pay with blood and tears for our failure.

[Scary Guy]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=55288

Everyone should own a gun, I call it the system of checks and balances.

[sinmantyx]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=55288

Everyone should own a gun, I call it the system of checks and balances.

You're right, I am SO part of the problem.

I'm not going to deny there is a certain "mutual assured destruction" element to prevalent ownership of guns. Like in Japan: no bar fights.

Seriously...when you aren't sure if the guy sitting next to you knows 8 ways to give you horrible pain and 2 good ways to kill you with his bare hands: no bar fights.

(I'm not working on stereotypes: this was told to me by someone who visited the country.)

I don't think "gun town" requires guns for certain individuals: they are still under federal gun control laws, as far as felons and what-not I'd assume. Interesting trick though. I wonder if the city provided gun training.

[Gauge]

this all just sucks. today our local cc was closed and on full lockdown till monday because of a bomb threat. thankfully no one was hurt but its still just rediculous.

[n0Mad]

Utah allows guns on campus.

[Homicidalheathen]

I was just reading a story in Cosmo (I can't help myself! Smack me!) where there was a lady staying at a hotel in Troy and she got shot in the face just for being there.

Well there goes my thinking working as a motel clerk would be safe.

Right now I help take care of someone so I am in a private residence......but going into public now, I look around me at all times.

I went to the park by my house once and some kid was showing his G/F a gun by his trunk. Thats the problem, here is this kid who has one? How did he get it?

And, if he has one.......it kinda makes you want one so that at least if he pulls one on you, you may have the faster hand.....but its doubtful. I mean, think about it. If someone already has a bead on you....your chances of getting to your gun on time and drawing it are slim.

The lady in the hotel had to play dead and by the luck of god, he ran out of bullets or it jammed. If you can, read the story....it was one of the better ones in Cosmo this month. Its not all makeup and hair lol.

[n0Mad]

I read that article. (I read Cosmo at work when I get bored. It amuses me. And I get bored a lot.) It is a scary article.

If someone already has a bead on you....your chances of getting to your gun on time and drawing it are slim.

It really all depends on the situation and your level of training. A buddy of mine, if you're 5 feet away from him and have a gun aimed at him and are concentrating intently, from a hands up surrunder position, he can draw, fire, and is reholstering before you even know what happened. He's that fast. He went through training at Thunder Ranch and even Clint Smith's jaw dropped at my buddy's draw time. Then again, that level of expertise is rare.

However, if you look at one of the most famous shootouts in history, the amount of shots fired vs. the amount of hits landed ratio is really low. Most people who commit crimes with firearms are not well trained, if trained at all. To get a CPL (Concealed Pistol Licence in MI, called CCW {carry concealed weapon} elsewhere) a person has to go through an eight hour extensive training course including law and liability, use of deadly force, home and child safety, safe storage, avoiding criminal attack, controlling a violent confrontation, handgun safety and handling, handgun operation, shooting fundamentals, ammunition knowledge, plus an hour or more of range time working towards multiple consistent shot placement. So, if you had a CPL, your chances against a random thug with a gun are actually pretty good.

For all those people saying that if everyone carried a gun the world would be more dangerous, look at all the training you have to go through to get a license to carry a gun. If everyone had that amount of training then I'd feel the world would be a safer place. Especially considering only those people who are responsible enough to carry a firearm would get the proper training to do so.

[BrassFusion]

For all those people saying that if everyone carried a gun the world would be more dangerous, look at all the training you have to go through to get a license to carry a gun. If everyone had that amount of training then I'd feel the world would be a safer place. Especially considering only those people who are responsible enough to carry a firearm would get the proper training to do so.

not everyone who carries a gun has that kind of training. they're the criminals who deal drugs and jack cars. they buy their guns illegally or steal them from people who got them legally. you think eddie mo money from the wesside applied for his ccw before capping some bloods with his gat?

fewer guns = fewer criminals with guns. that's just how it is.

[odims_sphere]

not everyone who carries a gun has that kind of training. they're the criminals who deal drugs and jack cars. they buy their guns illegally or steal them from people who got them legally. you think eddie mo money from the wesside applied for his ccw before capping some bloods with his gat?

fewer guns = fewer criminals with guns. that's just how it is.

Your own argument disproves your theroy.

Do you think eddie mo money from the wesside cares how many guns there are? He's gonna get one somewhere.

Fewer guns = Less accessability to guns for law abiding citizens, not criminals.

[glc]

Dudes, is it just me, or is this debate just going round and round in circles? Seems no camp is willing to change their views. Oh well, continue I guess, if there's any point...

[know_buddy_kares]

me personally, I don't want to see any more gun control laws be put in effect, I like the idea of having a gun incase someone tries shooting me with one, then i can at least get a good headshot and nullify the threat

[sinmantyx]

Dudes, is it just me, or is this debate just going round and round in circles? Seems no camp is willing to change their views. Oh well, continue I guess, if there's any point...

What's really strange is I bet people who are arguing actually agree on most real points.

Arguing about if "gun control" is good or bad is like arguing if "Affirmative Action" is good or bad; or "free speech" or "democracy" or "plastic" or "eggs".

Unless you get into legalistic specifics: you really aren't having a discussion. Instead, you are simply batting talking-points at one another.

How about this: Should you be able to own a gun if you are a felon? Should you be able to own a gun if you have a history of mental illness? ...etc so forth. Is a waiting period for buying a weapon appropriate?

If you said: Don't take guns away from law abiding citizens! (or) Gun control is necessary to ensure a safer environment!

You really aren't actually SAYING anything at all...because very few people are advocating either extreme. Very few would want to ban guns. Very few would want to have no gun control what-so-ever.

Just sayin'.

[Scary Guy]

Yeah, but define mentally ill? Also as for criminals, are we talking all felonies or just the major ones? I think we can all agree that the system isn't perfect, or anywhere close to being perfect.

If anyone wants a gun all they need are some milling tools and the basic elements for gunpowder. Sure it's a pain in the ass but I can see someone setting up shop like that.

[BrassFusion]

Yeah, but define mentally ill? Also as for criminals, are we talking all felonies or just the major ones? I think we can all agree that the system isn't perfect, or anywhere close to being perfect.

If anyone wants a gun all they need are some milling tools and the basic elements for gunpowder. Sure it's a pain in the ass but I can see someone setting up shop like that.

call me crazy, but i wouldn't really be afraid of maniacs with muzzle loaders if the police still carry lugers

[Steven]

call me crazy, but i wouldn't really be afraid of maniacs with muzzle loaders if the police still carry lugers

good one.

[Steven]

not everyone who carries a gun has that kind of training. they're the criminals who deal drugs and jack cars. they buy their guns illegally or steal them from people who got them legally. you think eddie mo money from the wesside applied for his ccw before capping some bloods with his gat?

fewer guns = fewer criminals with guns. that's just how it is.

thats bad math.

because you allready have saturation, and you'd have to be a Nazi to round them all up and outlaw them.

this is yet another reason why I advocate capitol punishment for career criminals.

fewer predators = fewer criminals with guns.

ok now I started it......

[BrassFusion]

honestly, that's the reason i'm a fence rider on the gun control issue. implementation would be nigh impossible.

and the capital punishment thingie? if career criminals were in jail for life we'd be just as safe from them as if they're dead. and don't TELL me we don't have enough room in our prisons- decriminalizing marijuana would free up a lot of cots.

but that's like two or three other threads there, lol

[Steven]

honestly, that's the reason i'm a fence rider on the gun control issue. implementation would be nigh impossible.

and the capital punishment thingie? if career criminals were in jail for life we'd be just as safe from them as if they're dead. and don't TELL me we don't have enough room in our prisons- decriminalizing marijuana would free up a lot of cots.

but that's like two or three other threads there, lol

KEEL ZEM.

KEEL ZEM ALL.....