For The Music Snobs

[kellygrrrrrl]

You guys are funny.....freaking music snobs.

I stand at this.

If it sounds good, I like it, I might buy it, and listen to it again!

Regardless of genre or style.

I just don't care about the sterotypes.

I can't read music, I can play a little bass guitar, and I used to play the trombone....

I can't really sing.....

I couldn't tell you who sings what or what band did what song 1st, cause I just don't care.

If I care, I'll find it or ask.

The only thing I can think of that is a slight peeve is one that says,

I only listen to Rock and roll / or rap/ or goth.....

To me it seems small minded, and kind of sad cause there is so much great music out there and basically it gives me the impression that that person basically isolates oneself to that kind of music and that only.

I am so not a music snob.

[sinmantyx]

Actually, women -can- pee standing up, unaided... it's just not pleasent to be around them afterwards... well... not for some of us, anyways...

CixWicked

True.

[phee]

Oh and if you really want a laugh... listen to the song "Dig It" by Skinny Puppy and then listen to "Terrible Lie" by NIN.... keep in mind that "Dig It" came out years before "Terrible Lie"

[sinmantyx]

Oh and if you really want a laugh... listen to the song "Dig It" by Skinny Puppy and then listen to "Terrible Lie" by NIN.... keep in mind that "Dig It" came out years before "Terrible Lie"

Oh gosh: anyone in the know-knows that Trent rips off shit all the time. For chrissake he ripped off sounds from George Luca's college film THX1138.

I don't think he's ever denied this. He looks all over for "source material" and brings it together somehow. I can appreciate him for the work he does. But, like you, it's hard to swallow appreciating him for who most people think he is.

That's one difficult venture: separating the artists, the music and the fans.

[BrassFusion]

the mozart and salieri rivalry was dramaticized to make an ubersweet play. it's impossible to know the real dynamic, but there's evidence they were more like cordial colleagues than enemies

[phee]

the mozart and salieri rivalry was dramaticized to make an ubersweet play. it's impossible to know the real dynamic, but there's evidence they were more like cordial colleagues than enemies

Exactly... my point being that this may seem trivial to some... but it is still part of what makes music interesting

[BrassFusion]

i guess it's less interesting to me to hear trivia about music i've never heard

[sinmantyx]

there's a lot more and a lot less, actually. intonation is a big one, of course... but my favorite definition for "music" so far is "organized sound."

Oh no you didn't!

Did you just open the can-of-beans which is the "definition of music" within a music snob thread?!

You are a braver woman than I.

My personal definition: Music cannot be defined by identifying particular characteristics of the sound. It is defined by how the observer interacts with it. It need not be organized or created specifically to be music: instead the observer treats the sound "as music" transforming (in their perceptions) the sound into what can be defined as music.

Aren't the five qualities of sound: note on/note off, key number, velocity, patch and after-touch?

(I'm totally trying to make a joke and failing: I rarely used that stuff.)

How about: attack, steady-state, decay: or just do an FFT and be done with it.

Sampling rate and bit depth?

hehehehe

[phee]

i guess it's less interesting to me to hear trivia about music i've never heard

I will observe your right to express your disinterest...

[MarsDustDoug]

Umm... Music is my life...

::Covers his head with his arms::

No really... I listen and play music as often as I can. I'm pushing at my band as hard as I can, not to mention, there's -never- a time where there aren't several songs stuck in my head.

Music is quit literally my life.

But I agree with you whole heartedly.

CixWicked

oh i wasnt saying that its a problem when someone who actually works with it and/or knows what they are talking about says it. I have been working in the local detroit entertainment scene since I was 15. I may just be being snobbish but I feel I can consider music being a major portion of my life. Cix you are fully validated in saying so, as are many people on this list. We actually WORK with, in, and around music daily.

[BrassFusion]

My personal definition: Music cannot be defined by identifying particular characteristics of the sound. It is defined by how the observer interacts with it. It need not be organized or created specifically to be music: instead the observer treats the sound "as music" transforming (in their perceptions) the sound into what can be defined as music.

your definition is personal, and to paraphrase, if I may: "Music is whatever a listener feels should be defined as music." Vague, at best, meaningless at worst. my definition is textbook, and it's no more than it appears: "organized sound." if a dj wants to splash out some random white noise for an hour, it's still been organized and it's still music, if that's how he wants to define it.

I will observe your right to express your disinterest...

*yawn*

[Rayne]

Umm... Music is my life...

::Covers his head with his arms::

No really... I listen and play music as often as I can. I'm pushing at my band as hard as I can, not to mention, there's -never- a time where there aren't several songs stuck in my head.

Music is quit literally my life.

But I agree with you whole heartedly.

CixWicked

He is right. I never see Cix without him busting out into song AT LEAST 4 or 5 times ... sometimes more, depending on how long I see him. He's always doing shows or band practice ... music IS quite literally his life. It's much different than people who listen to maybe one or two genres and have nothing else to do with music and claim music is their life. I've seen Cix sing many different genres, I've seen him play instruments, I've seen him write lyrics and I've seen him write music with Phee.

Anyway, I can back him up.

[sinmantyx]

your definition is personal, and to paraphrase, if I may: "Music is whatever a listener feels should be defined as music." Vague, at best, meaningless at worst. my definition is textbook, and it's no more than it appears: "organized sound." if a dj wants to splash out some random white noise for an hour, it's still been organized and it's still music, if that's how he wants to define it.

yeah yeah yeah

I know it's "text book" --- very recently. (At first glance, I though Cage coined it: but a little refresher and I found that it's attributed to Varese.)

"Organized" implies a creator that has control over aspects of the sound. It's a way of defining music operationally. I don't dig that.

If you think white-noise is "organized" than the word "organized" is vague at best, and meaningless at worst.

Music is sound that is experienced for qualities beyond denotative content: but for aesthetic content. If that is less vague for you: there you go. Sound effects and regular speech are NOT music if/because the brain is primarily translating their denotative content. Those sounds only become music if they are being primarily appreciated for their aesthetic content.

[BrassFusion]

music doesn't have to be appreciated to be music. as for the white noise example, you can't organize every aspect of the timbre on an acoustic instrument. there's a chance element. even playing my horn, i get surprised at how shit comes out some times. or let's say i'm composing a piece and part of it involves poking a pig in the tummy to make it squeal for a sound effect. I don't control every harmonic and duration of the noise itself like i could on a sequencer, but i DID organize it to happen that way.

[sinmantyx]

music doesn't have to be appreciated to be music. as for the white noise example, you can't organize every aspect of the timbre on an acoustic instrument. there's a chance element. even playing my horn, i get surprised at how shit comes out some times. or let's say i'm composing a piece and part of it involves poking a pig in the tummy to make it squeal for a sound effect. I don't control every harmonic and duration of the noise itself like i could on a sequencer, but i DID organize it to happen that way.

You traditional music people....

*sigh*

Music is in the appreciation: just like art. You can certainly try to impose your "objective" definition on the rest of the world: but it doesn't always work.

I like to put pure "found" music in the category as well - which usually has very little organizational elements.

Also, your definition (by definition) includes ALL speech...speech is organized sound. So, unless you are willing to admit that every time Bush opens his mouth to talk it is "music to your ears" - your definition is insufficient.

[phee]

---nice debate, please keep it up amidst my rants---

[sinmantyx]

---nice debate, please keep it up amidst my rants---

I've been involved with noise: Do you know how many times I've had this conversation?

[phee]

I've been involved with noise: Do you know how many times I've had this conversation?

I am in a "noise" like band these days as well...

And I would have to say that even when it comes to music.... beauty is in the eye of the beholder... merzbow anyone?

[sinmantyx]

I am in a "noise" like band these days as well...

And I would have to say that even when it comes to music.... beauty is in the eye of the beholder... merzbow anyone?

Someone ALWAYS has to mention Merzbow! What a pile of trash!

(Please tell me you got that joke.)

[BrassFusion]

sound doesn't have to be music to be beautiful and not all music has to be beautiful. why bother trying to give the word more meaning than it needs? it sounds like you're trying to define music by whether it's pleasant to people, which is a lot narrower than labeling all organized sound "music."

[the eternal]

Ahh, organized sound. now here's when I start to become a music geek.

I love sound, and noise. I can listen to a machine, or some other seemingly mundane sound creating "non-musical" machine for hours. I love drones. I listened to a song for about 20 mins on the radio before I realised that I was stuck between 2 stations - so I was hearing 2 stations together, plus the static!! I loved it! then realised that I'd spent too much time at university!!

You weren't between two stations You were listening to this

I am in a "noise" like band these days as well...

And I would have to say that even when it comes to music.... beauty is in the eye of the beholder... merzbow anyone?

ME please

Although, I have to be in the right mood for it.

I prefer his "mellower" stuff. Venerology is a little too nails on the chalkboard for me.

[phee]

Someone ALWAYS has to mention Merzbow! What a pile of trash!

(Please tell me you got that joke.)

Indeed

[phee]

Another thing that PISSES ME OFF!!!

Music seems to start to SUCK when the musicians start to believe there own hype... and this happens at all levels...

I have seen bands all of a sudden become popular with people praising and blowing them for their "originality" and a perfectly decent band (say like Apop) just shuts the hell down... they start feeling that there music is "the shit" that they are "important" now because they can get laid in any city (OK I guess I would feel important too). And I am not talking about the persona that they have... but you can hear the music going into atrophy, the effort is gone... it almost seems like (on for example the new Covenant album "Skyshaper" ) hey we are an awesome band now.... we could just use this arpegiator and sing monotone and it will be brilliant no matter what we do!!!

And on the local level... OMG we have opened for a band from Europe... we are no longer local we can pick and choose now!!! Where is my hot girlfriend? I think I will start giving advice to other lower bands now about how awesome we are!!!

*pant pant*

[sinmantyx]

sound doesn't have to be music to be beautiful and not all music has to be beautiful. why bother trying to give the word more meaning than it needs? it sounds like you're trying to define music by whether it's pleasant to people, which is a lot narrower than labeling all organized sound "music."

oh good god no...

Aesthetics in the general sense.

[Steven]

sound doesn't have to be music to be beautiful and not all music has to be beautiful. why bother trying to give the word more meaning than it needs? it sounds like you're trying to define music by whether it's pleasant to people, which is a lot narrower than labeling all organized sound "music."