DGN Night Question

[Chris Rohn]

Just a question...

I know I'm a little biased in this regard, but have you ever considered having your Saturday DGN night at Luna? I'm missing all the action!

There are a few advantages to having a DGN night at Luna:

1. Luna is closer to home for a lot of people

2. Luna actually plays "goth" music every once in a while

3. Luna is a smaller venue and it would be a lot easier to find your fellow DGN members

There are a few disadvantages, mainly that Luna is 21+, but for most of us "older" folks that's actually a nice thing.

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere before on the board and if there is a thread I should be pointed to please provide a link... otherwise I think it would be good to discuss why DGN night is at the ol' LCC every week.

Take care!

[Marblez]

Basically because it is viewed as the staple location for the Detroit Gothic scene. It is always there because...well, it is always there. Other clubs tend to change their formats at any given time LCC has been steadfast. Of course it has evolved a bit over the years, as is necessary, but it can always be counted on.

If we were to move the standard Saturday meet-up to location to cater to the whims of the moment...well, there would be more confusion as to where it is this week.

[nodrew]

Right, but there is also the point that on most Saturday nights, the music at City Club absolutely blows. The tracks played are less the thrilling and the mixes are less then appealing. In fact, most of the time that I find myself going to City Club, I end up going because someone else wants to go, have fun for about an hour and spend the rest of my time waiting for my chance to leave.

While Luna mnot be the "staple" Detroit goth location, perhaps a bit of variaty is needed. Sure its great that DG.n had a night at the Necto on Monday a few weeks back, but for some of us, not only do we have to wake up at the butt-crack of dawn for a long drive to work, but the Necto is well over an hour away. If a DG.n night were planned for Luna on a Saturday, I don't see why it would be all that confusing.

Personally I find City Club to get fairly bland after a while. Changing things up occasionally is a good thing. Not something to be frowned upon.

Complacency is the first step to madness.

[Daniel]

I vote for Chris Rohn. I won't continue to get people fired up talking about my dislike of city club.

[Daniel]

I'm also a little confused as to why it is, well... confusing to move the night, at least once in a while. I mean, we aren't in the stone ages, right? This message board can, you know... post a schedule? And people can read it? We aren't working with cave drawings or anything like that. I assume everyone is about average IQ or above? Where is the problem?

[Marblez]

While Luna mnot be the "staple" Detroit goth location, perhaps a bit of variaty is needed. Sure its great that DG.n had a night at the Necto on Monday a few weeks back, but for some of us, not only do we have to wake up at the butt-crack of dawn for a long drive to work, but the Necto is well over an hour away. If a DG.n night were planned for Luna on a Saturday, I don't see why it would be all that confusing.

Personally I find City Club to get fairly bland after a while. Changing things up occasionally is a good thing. Not something to be frowned upon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Necto was more of a special event in addition to the regular meet up at CC. We can and probably will do it at Luna some night too. Unfortunately, it won't be on a Saturday as it would be in direct competition with the regular thing.

One good thing about the regular Saturday at City Club is you don't know who will be there on a given night, but it is basically guaranteed that there will be a few that you will recognize. We don't EXPECT everyone to go every week...The more additional locations that are added to the Saturday lineup...well, would be like adding more water to the broth.

[paradox]

not that this has any real bearing on this discussion, but IMO fridays are much better than saturdays at city. at least me n the old lady think so.

as for meeting places, well, i guess people will decide for themselves where they want to meet? ive been to luna a couple times, but i dont remember if it was a saturday. does saturday have a theme?

[Onyx]

hmmm...

Could we do both one night, once in awhile? Maybe Luna earlier and CC later? Is this practical - how far away is Luna from CC?

I tend to dislike arriving at CC before midnight anyway. I like to arrive about 12:30 or 1 a.m. when there are lots of people.

If there are objections to doing it "officially" maybe we could do it unofficially? I have wanted to check out Luna but it would be even better to see a few familiar faces.

[paradox]

how far away is Luna from CC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

about 15-20min, depending

[Marblez]

not that this has any real bearing  on this discussion, but IMO fridays are much better than saturdays at city.  at least me n the old lady think so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I like a larger crowd, so when I can, I go to CC on Saturday. But my opinion has nothing to do with it either.

For some reason, there IS a larger crowd on Saturday...perhaps because more people can or will get out Saturday night. This being a key reason, I believe, that Saturday night is it. If the larger number of people can and do go out Saturday - by default, more DGN'ers can and will go on Saturday.

[nodrew]

Well, honestly, the idea that people are being "held" to a regular night and that there cannot be an official DG.n at Luna on Saturday night is honestly the most redicules thing I've ever heard of. I'm sorry, but this is not your decision to make. The members of DG.n can decide to do as they please. This board is meant to be a community and one of the very reasons I rarely come around any more (even though Troy insistes that I should) is that is barely seems to resemble that at times.

The fact that even the idea of Saturday somewhere other than LCC is such a preposterous idea is absolutely beyond my comprehension. Let people have some variety. City Club can be fun and all, but to make it the official club of DG.n is stupid.

Luna is in fact a great club to go to. The music is usually great, parking is free, drinks are cheaper, the music on Saturdays is usually by far superior and the people there are much less pretentious.

Personally, I'm voting for a Saturday at Luna OFFICIAL DG.n Event. I suggest that anyone else who wishes to spice up a Saturday night a little bit do the same. Or if you prefer City Club over Luna, the vote against it. But at least leave it up for discussion before outright denying the mere possibility just because it is not the usual.

[paradox]

beers anyone?

[nodrew]

The link to the DG.n at Luna Saturday night idea thread. :D >> http://www.detroitgothic.net/index.php?showtopic=1542

[Nienna]

The link to the  DG.n at Luna Saturday night thread. :D >> http://www.detroitgothic.net/index.php?showtopic=1542

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would still go to City Club no matter what because well... I like CC. Besides that it is WAY closer than Luna for us.

[Jarodaka]

I would still go to City Club no matter what because well... I like CC. Besides that it is WAY closer than Luna for us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're referring to your usual weekend launching point, Luna and LCC are actually about the same distance.

I am not entirely against the idea of changing the 'DGN Night' location. This increases the reading requirement for people on DGN, but, hey, once somebody misses the location change maybe people will start reading the board more carefullly... well, it was a pleasant thought, anyway. The 18+ vs. 21+ requirement is also a notable negative. There is a significant minority (buh dum, cssssh) of DGNers.

Then again, we can't ignore the entire region's ongoing love/hate relationship with City Club. Also can't ignore Chris Rohn's mad, experimental floor-filling skillz. I'd be receptive to a 'first Saturdays at Luna' or a one-off Saturday at Luna.

Please note, people are free to -- and I'd say encouraged to -- organize events and get togethers outside of any 'official' DGN channels.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The why / where has been debated page after page , and "in real life" over and over again, and could be debated for decades with no resolution and gone round and round with (and has been).

The "philosophy" of DGN Night is:

1. Its meant to be a basline "regular weekly hangout/gathering" night for DGNers that want to have a common place to hangout. Something that once you know where/when it is , you dont need to really check your email or check the board to "find out" where it is , you already know. A month from now, regardless if you've checked the board or not, you'll know were it is (barring a drastic change)

2. Its only for people that want to come. If you dont want to come, no hard feelings just dont come. DGN isnt centered around this one aspect of "DGN Night" you dont have to come to a club to be on DGN. We are just there to hang out and have a good time. If you have other plans, thats fine.

3. DGN Night is also meant as , sort of a side benifit, a promotional tool for DGN and seeks to be "newbie friendly" as well as include as many legal adults as possible (18+). A larger "tourist" crowd, with a clubber-base that tends to "shift" a bit more rapidly is more condusive to this. (wherever it may be) Its not meant to be some sort of elite hardcore type deal.

Im all for going out on other nights, to other clubs, and i'd be doing it all the time if i had the energy, but we need to pick for "DGN Night" one club, one night, and have it be consistant. LCC is the only club that has convinced me of its ablity to be open, regularly, consistantly , over the long haul as of yet. Saturday was chosen due to its generally more "touristy" crowd and a bit less "hardcore regulars" bent, that is, easier on newbies.

(these points can be debated, and i hesitate to even mention them due to the never-ending debate they can cause)

DGN Night is meant to be "in additon to" not, a replacement of any other thing(s) people might want to do.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

"DGN Events" : (DGN Night is not an "event" as such, its just a "gathering")

"Going to such and such tonight?" type posts are fine, also if you want to have a "DGN Event" at a specific place on a specific night, thats fine too, but a "DGN Event" does assume that "The DGN Staff" takes at least some responsiblity for what happens (as much as anything like that can be done) as such you cant have an "offical DGN event" without DGN staff involvement , obviously.

Having said all that DGN is meant to be a friendly board, its not a bastion of the 1st amendment right to be rude. Please try to keep the conversation civil. I've worked long hours to get DGN were it is along with lots of help from many others, if your not particularly intrested in being civil, or helpful , please , there are plenty of other venues for you.

[Chris Rohn]

Whoa didn't mean to open a big ol' can of worms! :whistling:

Anyway, I'm glad some of you are receptive to checking out Luna on a Saturday - as it is quite a bit different from City Club. If you've never been there I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

I saw the 'roll call' thread for Luna on 4/16 and I hope many of you can make it! If you're curious as to what we do play at Luna on Saturday, there is a playlist posted here: http://www.detroitgothic.net/index.php?showtopic=1535

Thanks for keeping an open mind!

[TomCat]

Just so ya all know...I've been known to hit Luna from 10-12ish on a Saturday, then make the 20 minute trip to City Club after...I know, I'm so silly. It's just what I do...sometimes. :

[Marblez]

Just so ya all know...I've been known to hit Luna from 10-12ish on a Saturday, then make the 20 minute trip to City Club after...I know, I'm so silly.  It's just what I do...sometimes.  :

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't encourage bar hopping unless you have a trustworthy designated driver.

[Jarodaka]

I don't encourage bar hopping unless you have a trustworthy designated driver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why, just hop on the Detroit Metro Rail and... ahahahahaahaha!!!111

[Onyx]

I don't encourage bar hopping unless you have a trustworthy designated driver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Things like that don't occur to me since I rarely drink alcohol. Very good point.

[Fierce Critter]

1) Luna is closer - for how many? A good deal of DGN'ers live west and south of Detroit. Including a heaping helping of downriver rats, Ann Arborites & in between. Detroit is THE place most central to the majority of us. For instance, a Mapquest done on my parents home in Taylor to both Luna and CC came up with the following travel times & distances: Taylor to Luna: Total Est. Time: 31 minutes Total Est. Distance: 25.44 miles. Taylor to CC: Total Est. Time: 18 minutes Total Est. Distance: 14.48 miles. Luna may be closer for SOME, but hardly for MOST. And DEFINITELY a LOT further away for many.

2) CC doesn't play "goth"/the music on Saturday night blows - I've said it before, and I'll say it again - CC has NEVER been proclaimed a "goth" club. I really don't think most people, if they're honest, would say that's really what they want to hear played there. I really think the attraction to CC is the big dancefloor and danceable music. Why else would people flock to a club that otherwise is known for overpriced drinks, filth, etc? Why else would the dancefloor empty by at least half when actual "goth" music is played?

I checked out the Luna playlist linked in another thread. Fact is, I can stay home and hear a majority of that music either from my own CD collection or on my Sirius satellite radio subscription. I personally don't go to clubs to hear music I can hear every day through either of those methods played. If it was being performed live, that would be different. But to hear a DJ spin basically my CD collection on a loudspeaker system - that's not a club date for me. For me, going to a club means dancing - and I don't necessarily want to dance to what I'd listen to. Luna may be a great place to go and hear music you LIKE. But from what I hear, the dancefloor is small, and the playlists, while pleasing to the ear and "different and broad-ranging", don't seem all that danceable to me. There are plenty of people who can dance to ANYTHING. But there are a LOT more people who are interested in going to a club where they know they can dance to almost EVERYTHING. And CC caters to dancers - that's pretty obvious.

And I know a lot of people out there would like to hear something different played at CC. But you know something, CC is very busy every weekend. So SOMEBODY likes what they play. Maybe not as many people dislike the playlists as you might think.

But I haven't polled anyone, and I'm definitely guessing on all this. So forgive me if I'm talking out my ass. : It's all just coming from what I've observed.

3) Luna is smaller - well, again, if you're interested in going to a place to hear music and talk to people, that's definitely better than CC. Trying to have a conversation at CC is an exercise in spit-in-my-ear futility. And I could see where that might actually be better for a "group night" situation. But if I get Troy's aim correctly, the focus of a "DGN night" is a regular sort of "networking" situation where DGN'ers can meet and greet and have a good time within the walls of a place that's pretty central to the goth theme. And if people prefer dancing & mingling with people outside of DGN, CC is the place most people are gonna be - "officially" goth or not.

4) Luna is 21+ - while I don't like mingling with a particularly young crowd myself, I can definitely see where that would be a MAJOR disadvantage to the entity central to this question - DGN. It's eliminating a percentage of DGN's members, and frankly, that just sucks.

5) CC on Saturday sucks - you know, I've read this and heard the debate so many times. And you know what just struck me? How about using the #'s of DGN people going to create a united front and work on IMPROVING what sucks about CC on Saturday?

Say you think the clientele sucks. Well, if you get a lot of DGN'ers going, and DGN'ers don't suck, HOW many people do you need to NOT suck to be around you? Can't you put the cretins who are cliquey, snooty or in some way distasteful on ignore and not allow them to crap up YOUR evening?

So the music sucks - they never play new stuff? How about DGN'ers put your heads together each night. Pick three songs three members want to hear, and ALL of you go to the request sheet and request those three songs. Give a different three people said privilege each Saturday. Betcha you start hearing those new, different songs more often.

Power in numbers, you know?

Are the owners complete monsters, or might they be open to a symbiotic relationship of sorts? Put your heads together and see if there might be a way to form a mutually beneficial relationship. Maybe propose a way to get drink prices lowered for DGN members. Wanna show the owners how much $$ DGN'ers spend on drinks every Saturday? Propose a test. Print "A DGN member just bought a drink" chits up and every time a DGN'er buys a drink, one of those is handed to the bartender who collects them in a bucket. Once the owner sees, over a couple weekends or so, how much $$ DGN members spend on drinks, they might be willing to work WITH you more on some kind of benefit. Maybe a reduced drink price for DGN members. Maybe reduced door prices. Maybe just allowing DGN'ers to pick a setlist one Saturday out of a month. The possibilities are myriad. But it takes a non-defeatest, non-"nah, they'll never go for it, there's no use" attitude to put this kind of thing into action.

Look, my cousin is a club owner in Detroit. He and his boyfriend know the owners of CC - I've run into them there before on rare occasions. I'm not sure of the depth of their relationship with the owners, but I've wondered if it's close enough for me to throw some of these grievences their way and see if they're willing to talk to the CC owners and say, "you know, these are the things that are keeping people away from your club, just thought you might like to know". But thusfar, I haven't been willing to impose on them. I mean, we're not even THAT close. But that card IS in my hand, and I'm willing to play it - IF I see DGN'ers willing to put some effort in THEMSELVES. Thusfar, I haven't seen much of anything past the whining stage.

I'm afraid that, overall, I just agree that spreading "DGN Night" around is counterproductive to the aim. Which is networking of DGN members. At least, that's the impression I get.

[bav]

Personally, I wouldn't mind the idea of a night out at Luna. Yea, there are a lot of valid points for and against having the "official" night at CC, but just to have A night at Luna on a Saturday would be a lot of fun. A good chance to meet/see new people, hear a different playset, and experience a different venue.

And to those people who say "Bav, but I never see you at CC anymore!" I say "Just because I'm not at City doesn't mean I'm anywhere else either."

Variety is the spice of life and having a single night somewhere else is not a bad thing by definition.

Hell, I should probably head out to Luna on a Saturday sometime anyways. A night that has a range of music from Megadeth to Ladytron is definately worth checking out.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

There's also a difference between what we (meaning DGN staff, or other concerned persons) personally would like, and what we think may or may not be "best for DGN long term". (thus adding an additional layer of debate that many don't consider, to an already very debatable subject)

I'd personally be at various places Saturday nights , rather than CC every week, including doing nothing at all other than just sitting around some nights. Health permitting I'd be at every possible place i could hit, maybe even in one night at times. But, its got a job-like component for me , so if >I

Very few DGNers actually show up at CC for DGN night 'every week" the vast majority only show up now and again, having "real life" commitments or other things they are doing besides clubbing. This is not as simple a point as it might seem, but rather than write 5 pages on it ill just leave it at that.

So the "same place every week" feeling is not there for I'd say 90% of the overall DGNer at DGN night headcount, as they are not "clubbing" every Saturday. Then there's the people that DO like the "regular hangout" concept, added to that all my above points, in an overall, best-for-DGN-long-term perspective, including..... omg i need to stop, i told myself the last time this conversation got started i should back away from it lest i write novella after novella.

Corporate summary: no matter how we might like to, not possible to please everyone. And , i personally, should have spent the last years building a rock band or advancing my "real life career" or some such, instead of spending years, working on / promoting / running a message board, oh such a glory job.