Is It Always Better To Tell The Truth?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

This one can get pretty esoteric but basically:

Should we always tell the truth? Is it ever ethical/moral to not tell the truth?

[EAF (1)]

This one can get pretty esoteric but basically:

Should we always tell the truth? Is it ever ethical/moral to not tell the truth?

I personally believe it is always better to be truthful. Then again I am a blunt person, but there is a such a thing as being tasetfull and polite of being respectfull as well as truthfull. I think people would get their opinions across easier and would understand eachother more if we didn't always try and spare what we thought was offensive and instead just told what we really thought, what our true opinions were. Many might dissagree with me, but I see no reason that the truth could not be told and it be done with respect, dignity, and understanding. You can tellthe truth and still be polite about it.

XD

[BrassFusion]

Gotta disagree. If the "truth" is based upon ignorance or hatred, it's no better than white lies. Like... "Well, I don't really trust you to housesit for me because you're black and black people commit more crimes than white people."

Not that I'm black, or I've ever offered to housesit for anyone, but I'd personally rather hear, "My aunt's already housesitting for me."

[EAF (1)]

My circumstance I guess was based off more of a perfect world senario...even though I know the world we live in is not one but here is what I was thinking...in a perfect world everyone would tell the truth, which because of perfectness would also mean no racism...but since there is racism and this world is far from perfect than people will also not always tell the truth...lol

But I dunno, in a way if I could get everyone to tell the truth and someone said something like that to me, i'd know that they are not worth my time...I guess it would make the world more black and white in a way, but I would rather know who my real friends are rather than all this crap with are they stabbing me in the back...

XD

(just felt like I had to expalin myself more I guess...lol)

[Troy Spiral (13)]

My circumstance I guess was based off more of a perfect world senario...

That's a good secondary qualifier, i often think that my viewpoint from just a general ideal philosophical viewpoint is very different from my "real world implementation" viewpoint.

[phee]

The truth is very subjective... but that has not a reason to not tell what you believe the truth to be... but truth and fact are very different things...

As far as my policy goes... I would lie to save anothers life, and a few other extreme circumstances... but that is about as far as I will go...

[Msterbeau]

I will do whatever it takes to get a Klondike Bar.

[Scary Guy]

Gotta disagree. If the "truth" is based upon ignorance or hatred, it's no better than white lies. Like... "Well, I don't really trust you to housesit for me because you're black and black people commit more crimes than white people."

Not that I'm black, or I've ever offered to housesit for anyone, but I'd personally rather hear, "My aunt's already housesitting for me."

Wrong, the truth is the truth no matter what form it takes or who is saying it. Simply saying "no because I don't trust you yet" is truthful and to the point. Someone who thinks like that probably wouldn't be talking to the black person in the first place anyway since he thinks he probably also thinks he might get robbed.

The truth is very subjective... but that has not a reason to not tell what you believe the truth to be... but truth and fact are very different things...

As far as my policy goes... I would lie to save anothers life, and a few other extreme circumstances... but that is about as far as I will go...

Wrong, the truth is the exact same thing as fact.

2 a (1): the state of being the case : fact (2): the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3)often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics> c: the body of true statements and propositions

5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality

— in fact

: in truth

With your scenario "I believe the truth to be" is the same thing as "I believe the facts to be", "the truth is" as "the fact(s) is/are", etc...

Personally I always tell the truth, which is obviously why I'm so popular

[Fierce Critter]

I try to be truthful at all times - but tactful. It's the "tactful" part that I find a lot of people I find obnoxious leave out.

For instance, in the previous incarnation of this thread when referring to music.. Frankly, and I've discussed this at length in a long-gone EZBDGN thread, I don't believe there's such thing as "bad" music. Music is totally and completeey subjective - I despise country. I hate it. I hate the instrumentation particular to it (steel guitar, etc), I hate the subject matter, I hate the voice quality. But I still wouldn't call it "bad music" because it isn't. It's just "bad" to my personal ear. So I might tell a person who asks, "I'm not a good judge because I'm not fond of Country music" rather than, "OH GOD!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!! AAAAAGHHH!!! STOP PLAYING THAT SHIT!!!! AAAAAAGGGHHH!!!"

I've been policing my true feelings/thoughts/opinions on things very tightly - until recently. I've always tried to be true to myself, but tactful. I still try to be tactful, especially when dealing with tactful, reasonable people. But when I'm dealing with obnoxious, self-absorbed, disrespectful blowhards who throw their opinions around like they're the aribiter of EVERY SINGLE THING ON THE FUCKINNG PLANET, well, my tendency toward tact can slip these days.

IN a relationship, to me, there's no room for lies. If I can't be honest with my partner and he with me, there is a problem. I'll definitely ramp tact up to the max with my partner, but I'll still be truthful. In the "do these pants make my ass look fat" situation, I'll say something like, "they're definitely not as flattering as the other pair." But I won't say, "No hunny! NOTHING makes YOUR perky butt look big!!!"

After a particularly intense relationship went south back in the mid 90's, I found a ring at Hudson's, a simple silver band with the word "truth" engraved in old English letters. I bought that ring, and wore it every day until I sent it to Jon when he was still in Florida in 1998. He gave that ring back to me as my engagement ring. Somehow, it went missing in the last place we lived in NC, and I'm still grieving it's loss and in search for a replacement. But I live by that word, and can't imagine a life not doing so.

Life is too short for bullshit. Give me truth with tact and respect to sweeten its delivery, please. Thank you.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Fierce Critter

[EAF (1)]

And as far as truth and fact being the same that is not entirly true, take for instance physics, in physics it is a fact that scientists cannot prove time space continum or the fact that black holes and quazars would make time/distance travel in space possible...however it is true that scientists storngly believe it is possible. But yes from one's point of view they could be the same....

and yeah I do do that a lot I guess too Troy...lol

Wouldn't it be nice if the world were perfect though?

Yet if the world were perfect then there would be no need for anything to be perfect, therefore if the world was perfect it would then not need to be.

XD

[Scary Guy]

And as far as truth and fact being the same that is not entirely true, take for instance physics, in physics it is true that scientists cannot prove time space continuum or that it is true that black holes and quasars would make time/distance travel in space possible...however it is a fact that scientists strongly believe it is possible. But yes from one's point of view they could be the same....

Spelling error corrected and every instance of truth/fact transposed to prove my point even further. Thank you.

[torn asunder]

Wrong, the truth is the truth no matter what form it takes or who is saying it.

i disagree - the truth is entirely based on one's perception, and will inherently vary a bit by person. there can be no "absolutel truth", in my opinion, because we're not omnipotent - we don't/can't know everything. now, we can agree on the fact that currently, in the universe as we know it, [such&such] generally happens, and we accept it as truth... that in no way means it is, just that we all agree to say it is.

did that make any sense!?

Edited June 8, 2007 by torn asunder

[phee]

i disagree - the truth is entirely based on one's perception, and will inherently vary a bit by person. there can be no "absolutel truth", in my opinion, because we're not omnipotent - we don't/can't know everything. now, we can agree on the fact that currently, in the universe as we know it, [such&such] generally happens, and we accept it as truth... that in no way means it is, just that we all agree to say it is.

did that make any sense!?

I agree

[Homicidalheathen]

A few years ago my sister said she had seen something about us on a web site. I denied it. Reasons rather obvious.....but also, she can't be trusted with secrets.

Also, I thought...its none of her buisness....and if she was looking at it, .....she must beinterested in it....so she can keep that judgemental advice to herself.

So yah, I lie sometimes.

Or at least fib. Trying at the moment to make me oma not worry about something by NOT telling her when she asks about a situation....which is sorta a lie....but....she worries uneedlessly.

She has been through enough, everything will work out.....

Also.....everyone does not have the same needs, goals and hopes or situations as others. So, maybe they can't handle the truth......it does not make you a bad person for being mysterious and vague if what you do doesn't harm anyone.

Your not weak or unworthy because you don't live by someone else' rules.

Oh and sometimes we don't tell our kids about the whole scope of our financial situation as it is none of their buisness......as long as things are taken care of and paid for.

I do have a baaad tendancy to lie about my health until I am so sick I can't move. It pisses people off. But, there is nothing anyone can do about and I hate whinning so I am not going to complain about it all the damn time. They want daily updates on the state of my ability to poo and it is personal. And gross. I get sick of them asking. I eat well there is nothing else I can do.

Oh and also, the women on my moms side tend to be a bit psychic. I have predicted 2 deaths. They both happened within 6 months of the person dying. My mum too. We don't tell anyone what we know. I don't think its right.

Also I have had to lie about religeous and political practices to keep jobs.

When I was young, and single and free and successful on my own with no boss....and didn't have any kids and was not speaking to my family members.......it was easy to hold onto the practice and belief that one should never lie.

It just doesn't work that way.

Well maybe people shouldn't HAVE to but sometimes you just do.

Its nice to stand for what you believe in but its even nicer to have a paycheck ect.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Homicidalheathen

[Scary Guy]

i disagree - the truth is entirely based on one's perception, and will inherently vary a bit by person. there can be no "absolute truth", in my opinion, because we're not omnipotent - we don't/can't know everything. now, we can agree on the fact that currently, in the universe as we know it, [such&such] generally happens, and we accept it as truth... that in no way means it is, just that we all agree to say it is.

did that make any sense!?

Not a bit, because then that's not exactly the truth. Saying either "I believe the truth to be" or "I believe the facts to be" doesn't make anything more factual that comes after that statement any more true than using the other.

For example it's a known fact that 3+9=5, which is of course wrong. But your assuming all the facts are always going to be accurate as well.

[torn asunder]

Not a bit, because then that's not exactly the truth. Saying either "I believe the truth to be" or "I believe the facts to be" doesn't make anything more factual that comes after that statement any more true than using the other.

For example it's a known fact that 3+9=5, which is of course wrong. But your assuming all the facts are always going to be accurate as well.

in standard math, you're correct, but maybe there's a set of physics/dimensions in which that wouldn't necessarily be the case. (a cube has 6-sides, but if you try to prove it/show it on a piece of paper, you can't... 2-d can't show 3-d detail.) hell, even light "particles" aren't necessarily particles - light can be a wave, depending on how you test it. *it's entirely dependant upon the person viewing the light, how they see it!* or how about this - try to tell me the exact mass *and* location-direction of any particle. you can't, because the simple act of viewing it, *changes the particle*, so it's no longer what it was when you set out to define *the truth* about it...

on a simpler note, let's say you run over a squirrel with your car. you say it was an accident, the guy in his yard says it was intentional, and the squirrel's family claims it was suicide! (yeah, i'm goofin, but trying to make a point.) how about this - you own a green car. is it green? maybe you think so, but i see it as more of a blue, and maybe someone else can't even tell( red-green color blind) now, is your car green to the color-blind person? might be, might be red - your truth is therefore not his truth. you can tell him all you want that it's green, but he can't see that. does that make any more sense?

[torn asunder]

Not a bit, because then that's not exactly the truth. Saying either "I believe the truth to be" or "I believe the facts to be" doesn't make anything more factual that comes after that statement any more true than using the other.

For example it's a known fact that 3+9=5, which is of course wrong. But your assuming all the facts are always going to be accurate as well.

better yeet, are you familiar with the "blind men and the elephant" story/parable?

[Scary Guy]

I totally replied to this, but it didn't take.

People have a different view on what the facts are, people see their own version of the truth. I'll just leave it at that.

[JaneDead]

This one can get pretty esoteric but basically:

Should we always tell the truth? Is it ever ethical/moral to not tell the truth?

i'm a truthful person but when i really think about it, based on this right here:

i disagree - the truth is entirely based on one's perception, and will inherently vary a bit by person.

it depends on who you ask

there are cases when i don't say something and someone who knows about it will say that is "dishonest" or a "lie" but then i think why? i didn't LIE about something. i just did not TELL something or let it be known to world. it is not like i was asked about it and outright denied it. i just never opened my mouth in the first place.

now, is that a lie?

[Scary Guy]

it depends on who you ask

there are cases when i don't say something and someone who knows about it will say that is "dishonest" or a "lie" but then i think why? i didn't LIE about something. i just did not TELL something or let it be known to world. it is not like i was asked about it and outright denied it. i just never opened my mouth in the first place.

now, is that a lie?

No, it's withholding information. Now if you told a half truth like "I didn't kill him with that knife (I used a mallet)" that wouldn't necessarily be a lie either. You just didn't complete the sentence and if you only said you didn't kill him then that would be a lie but the addition of "with that knife" makes it alright. I love manipulating the language to my advantage.

... actually I love manipulating everything to my advantage.

[JaneDead]

No, it's withholding information...

-that's what i say. i am not lying i am just holding back something i know. others have outright said i was 'lying' for that. i completely disagree.

I love manipulating the language to my advantage.

-i do too. sometimes, i have a way with words.

[Hellion]

I just say I don't trust anyone,thats about it.in most cases.

[Sybil]

I have surely paid dearly for lies that I have told in my time.

So I WORK at honesty.

My conscience hated that I lied so lying is bad.

I guess what I am saying is I learned thru hindsight.

Made a mistake, hated the way I felt...

And now there is a pink post it note inside my brain that says..

"No lies."

Now, there are times when girls put on a terrible outfit and come out of the bathroom or a dressing room and they are so into what they have on, and they look me in the eyes..

and they ask that question that i LOATHE..

"does this look okay?"

My brain says.. "say yes. avoid the doom that will surely fill the room if you tell her what you REALLY think.."

and i smile.

and i tell her that picking something else might work better.. or something kind like that.

My brain speaks to me in comedy and i have to filter it unless the situation REALLY calls for comedy.

[JaneDead]

Now, there are times when girls put on a terrible outfit and come out of the bathroom or a dressing room and they are so into what they have on, and they look me in the eyes..

and they ask that question that i LOATHE..

"does this look okay?"

in situations of: girl has on bad outfit, what do i say? i never lie. i don't say "you look bad. you look fat" or anything HORRIBLE like that. but if she says "how does this look" or "what do you think" i will say "i don't like it/that outfit" and leave it at that.

that way it is about my opinion of not liking the outfit and nothing to do with her/her body/how SHE looks. they know that i just don't like the clothes. and they are right- on them, i don't like those clothes maybe i won't even like those clothes on anyone. and it's not personal. the clothes might just be damn ugly. i can't lie about that.

it happened to me recently actually. a friend was going out and we were all hanging out- she comes out of her room and says "what about this" and i could tell no one wanted to admit it didn't look right. but i just said "i don't like it" she wanted to know what i didn't like about it so i told her. she changed a few things about it, eventually changed the whole outfit and i ended up liking what she picked out much better. so did everyone else. as soon as she came out everyone even said "oooh that is much better. yeah that looks good." i don't think if i had said "i don't like it" that anyone would have said a word. they probably would have lied and told her it looked "fine" when in fact, it did NOT look fine.

but on the other hand i had a friend who would try something on that looked terrible on her. i would tell her "honestly that outfit does not look good on YOU" and she would not care/believe me and wear it anyways. it was always a disaster. but at least she asked, i told her, and she did it anyways! she was a girl who used to be "thinner" had a baby and tried to wear her "thinner" clothes when she clearly needed something bigger. i believe she was in denial. those people just can't be helped. but i still don't lie to them.

[Sybil]

When people ask, I have to answer.

I find the same to be true..

A room full of people are asked for an opinion..

ya can hear a pin drop...... no one answers.

So I speak up and answer said question.

..problem?..

My brain goes straight to sarcasm.. wit.. not all situations call for these type answers..

Filtering the LEVEL of honesty is my problem now.

And of course with loved ones who are sensitive I am careful.

With strangers I am careful...

And with stubborn friends that just dont listen I just put the foot down..