Gothy Goth Goth Goth

[glc]

Does anyone else get sick of hearing that word? Or is it just me?

[Homicidalheathen]

I have twin teens who think 'goth' is the shit. What do you think? I thought about taking an ice pick to my ears....but.......well......I kinda need them.

[phee]

I think people who are sick of hearing that word are GOTH

[JaneDead]

i don't really ever hear the word "goth" and i don't seem to have exposure to "goth" anymore.

what i see [when i'm out, not who i hang out with] more now is ... whatever kids (21 crowd) are these days? what is that anyways? that style/music considered? it's not completely original but it's not like anything i've seen before now either. i really think i am just getting old. i'm noticing that generation gap between me and "young people".

[Saint Germain]

may you prefer "grufti"?

[Amerist]

Not German enough.

The only place that I hear Goth, ever these days, is on Mill -- mostly because it makes me something of a rare bird, nigroque cygno. For the most part, I've never been inundated by the word. Not even here when it's in the URL and the advertisements on the bottom of the screen.

Although, putting oneself into positions where hearing/seeing the word are highly likely and becoming sick of it is probably a symptom of an altogether different issue.

[Scary Guy]

I'd prefer people to just type out the whole word GOTHIC, but people are lazy.

I'll tell you one thing. I am sick of clubs saying they have a goth night, and then not playing the music.

[Sybil]

i don't really ever hear the word "goth" and i don't seem to have exposure to "goth" anymore.

what i see [when i'm out, not who i hang out with] more now is ... whatever kids (21 crowd) are these days? what is that anyways? that style/music considered? it's not completely original but it's not like anything i've seen before now either. i really think i am just getting old. i'm noticing that generation gap between me and "young people".

**slaps forehead**

**nods**

HEY.. I am okay with natural progression.. and 30 isnt old right?

[Sybil]

I live a "sheltered existance" right now.

I work with my boyfriend Paul and its just us running his business.

I dont ever hear the word "goth" anymore.

I know that it would sometimes bother me when people would say that I am "this or that"..

but it HAS been a LONG time.

**shrugs**

My sister said it best, in description of my teens.

"Sybil is angry and she is artsy and she shocks people. She gets off on it."

**shrugs again**

At some points THAT was the best description of me.

Myself and Yuppie Society never got along.

I go against the norm by accident alot of times.. I am who I am and dont change because all say it should be so.

I am glad that I am absent from all the nonsense that can fly around in day to day life..

(sometimes)

(and i sure dont miss entering a room and having everyone say.. "theres the goth girl.")

..did i drift from the original "?" again..

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I get kind of pissed off i don't hear it more from musicians. They make their bones off the goth scene yet are scared to death to use the term.

Really on the wrong board for that type of statement. Kind of like going to a website about cars and saying "god damn im sick of hearing about cars".

[Scary Guy]

I get kind of pissed off i don't hear it more from musicians. They make their bones off the goth scene yet are scared to death to use the term.

Yeah but you know that's mostly because they don't want to be typecast as that.

[glc]

I hear you Troy, it's just for me anyway, the word is thrown around without any thought, and it's become almost derogatory. Kind of like the word "retard". It used to be a perfectly legitimate word used to describe a person with an intellectual disability, and now it has lost all meaning and become offensive.

I guess I'm tired of the negative connotation, and the way ignorant people use the word to label something they don't understand.

I figured that this'd be a board where people would understand that notion - I'm not sick of goths, by any means

I'm sick of hearing the word out of people that don't understand...

[Fierce Critter]

I love the word. I love the connotations. I love the association.

But I'm horribly non-goth right now. I'm not going anywhere, I'm focused on home-based BS & work right now, not dressing up in any way, not putting on make-up, not listening to much music, not being creative.

I'm in a slump. All I'm feeling right now is tired suburban housewife.

[Scary Guy]

I'm sick of hearing the word out of people that don't understand...

You do know this includes like 3/4ths of the goths too right?

[JaneDead]

You do know this includes like 3/4ths of the goths too right?

word

[Homicidalheathen]

Oh ditto this. Having a bunch of rednecks sitting around in plaid, with one sucker goth girl showing up.....in fishnets.....and playing maybe one nine inch nails song.......does not count at 'goth night'.

I'd prefer people to just type out the whole word GOTHIC, but people are lazy.

I'll tell you one thing. I am sick of clubs saying they have a goth night, and then not playing the music.

[DarkVampire]

Its a weird label like any other. One that I do not associate with in any way shape or form. Now excuse me, I have some dark make up to put on and I have to find my fangs.

[glc]

Yeah, it's wierd hey? I know heaps of REALLY goth people and they are like "I'm not goth"...

It's interesting to know where people stand on this one

[Destroit]

Yes, but only when it comes from non-goth people. I know, that's real bad, that's like how some black people can call each other "nigguh" and stuff, but I can't really blame them. I mean I'm sure other groups/cultures etc do this too, just used black people as an example. Especially the way people like my mother say it, it's all "gawwth" like she has some crazy fucking New England kinda accent all of a sudden. She's not the only person I know who says it like that either. She'll put strange emphasis on it in sentences too, such as: "So this one group you hang out with, are they GAWWWWTH too?" Something like that.

[Scary Guy]

Yes, but only when it comes from non-goth people. I know, that's real bad, that's like how some black people can call each other "nigguh" and stuff, but I can't really blame them. I mean I'm sure other groups/cultures etc do this too, just used black people as an example. Especially the way people like my mother say it, it's all "gawwth" like she has some crazy fucking New England kinda accent all of a sudden. She's not the only person I know who says it like that either. She'll put strange emphasis on it in sentences too, such as: "So this one group you hang out with, are they GAWWWWTH too?" Something like that.

When I finally move out and my parents never see me again, maybe they'll figure that part of it out.

[Scales]

The complexes of a lot of the people found in the gothic subculture would be the type to have been singled out in the past, and strive for understanding; especially since walking around looking theatrical seems like a social enigma if the person doing it isn't somewhat open-minded. So for the one's that don't necessary say they're a part of the subculture but seem so, they probably just want to avoid confrontation.

If you've been learning about what makes a goth from a media standpoint, you obviously want to keep some of that ideology in your head so you can continue enjoying and understanding the media. So you meet with some real people who associate with the label as a lifestyle aesthetic, and then you have conflicting sets of complexes; so for the sake of singularity, you switch back and forth from popular stereotypes and what actual people have told you depending on which you believe more, and the social situation, ect.

In musician's cases, I'm sure some of them probably associate heavily with the subculture in a personal sense; but they have decided that saying they are 'goth' to the public is decided against.

Since the gothic subculture is like any set of ideologies, you have people who are passionate about it. So some people will say they are a part of the subculture, some will say otherwise avoiding confrontation; this also applies in the case of musicians, I'm guessing the main reason is they don't feel they're passion for the 'goth' genre is worth fighting with other musicians about what it means, or putting it down as an element of their music for whatever reason. Some people display their love openly in any way possible including defending it, some people don't.

There are a lot of people who are passionate about things, and don't realize if you think anything through long enough, it travels in a circle of contradiction; so because of individual passion you have an endless fights going on over inanimate things, definitions, and ideas- especially on the internet. I can't say "fuck people, because my word is the best", because without other people I'd be dead; I can't say "I need other people's approval to take on labels or do anything with my life" because obedience quickly turns into slavery. So as I said before, if arguing with myself has proved everything contradicts endlessly like a circle, I have no purpose throwing negativity at strangers to justify a passion; I wouldn't want anyone doing it to me.

If someone asks me if I'm a goth in person, I'll say yes or no depending on the social situation; if the person offers no formal respect, I'll probably say whatever avoids me confrontation. In the case of when I posted an intro in this forum, I play the odds of saying "I'm not a goth" because there's less chance of confrontation with people who are stuck on standards they've developed, which happens often with many people who lose sight of being a little humanitarian for the sake of growth. Growth requires empathy, justifying one's own opinions all the time makes them like a mental statue. Just personally without other people's perceptions, I don't see any power in titles, I've been through that phase.

But anyways as for my music, I don't put that under the goth sub-genre since it has no similar rock elements (some metal, but no rock), no funk, no deep or kind of 'desperate' vocals found in the 80's groups and in newer groups like Type O Negative and London After Midnight; even though I do strive to go for a darker sound, and put down gothic as an influence.

It is very strange that it is more accepted to be fighting over what subcultures mean, then just accepting that it's going to be another individually-defined thing in the end. I like to dress gothic, I like gothic things and dark music, I have a passion for the subculture; but I'd rather be called a poser or any other insult by an endless number of people then get into run-around arguments with them about what makes me what I am, it's a matter of strength in self-awareness.

That's where I stand. Sorry for the long rambling, but boredom and caffeine struck me.

[glc]

Wow, thanks! Huge post man!

It got me thinking about the other day actually, when I realised something...

I was lucky to see a talk by his holiness the 14th Dalai Lama on Saturday, and noticed that the crowd was mainly made up of hippies. Ok, that makes sence. But hippies always seem to be onto the idea of free will, be your own person etc etc... Ironically, they all seem to be following the same ideas and thinking and acting as a whole, like any other subculture.

I like to think for myself, act how I want to act, be who I want to be without conforming to a subculture, or group of people that influence me to think any other way.

Maybe I don't have an issue with the word "goth", maybe the issue is that I resent being typcast as something just by the way I look.

Hmmm, ponders...

[Scary Guy]

Welcome to 6th grade science class (ok my school was stupid, should have learned this way before 6th grade) with classification systems and how we classify things (learned it also myself way before with LEGO's). Scientists use different traits and characteristics to classify different types of life forms. You have the main ones (plants, mammals, amphibians, fungi, and I forgot what the fifth one was). Well shit you can learn all you want about it right here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_classification .

We classify the things we like to better understand them. I like most dark music, so if someone else says "hey you should hear this new track, it's pretty dark" chances are I might like it. If they say "hey you should hear this new HIM track" chances are good I'm going to like it.

Same method works for people:

I like dark music - everyone here pretty much likes dark music

I wear black clothes - some people here wear black (or at least dark) clothes

I wear long black coats - Reaper and the others in that one thread wear black coats too

I wear a unique hat - me, just me, and only me.

So I fit into the culture, but I also fit into multiple cultures as well (goth-a-billy = gothic and rockabilly styles thrown together).

Yeah I'm not making much sense but it's almost 6 AM and I need sleep. My point is, is that you're going to fit into a category no matter how hard you try not to. Ever hear the expression "you're unique, just like everyone else"? Same concept applies if you try hard not to fit into a category with everyone else who tries not to fit into a category. I say just accept and embrace it because you have no choice. It's stupid to fight against who and what you are.

[Scales]

Maybe I don't have an issue with the word "goth", maybe the issue is that I resent being typcast as something just by the way I look.

Hmmm, ponders...

I think I feel somewhat that way, but it's inevitability nonetheless like SG said.

[Shade Everdark]

Yeah I'm not making much sense but it's almost 6 AM and I need sleep. My point is, is that you're going to fit into a category no matter how hard you try not to. Ever hear the expression "you're unique, just like everyone else"? Same concept applies if you try hard not to fit into a category with everyone else who tries not to fit into a category. I say just accept and embrace it because you have no choice. It's stupid to fight against who and what you are.

I couldn't help but think of Life of Brian when I read this.

Brian: "You're all individuals!"

Crowd: "We're all individuals!"

Lone Man: "Um, I'm not."