To Immunize Or Not To Immunize

[Marblez]

As parents to 2 newborn babies, we are attempting to determine whether we should immunize them against all the standards: measles, mumps, rubella, hep b... (the list goes on). I know that most people don't consider it an option. Neither did I. Why in the world wouldn't any parent immunize their children against any disease they could?? Isn't it required by law? Don't they need all their shot before going to school?

I ask you to check out the video on this page (link below) and let me know what you think. Warning: it is 90 minutes long, but quite worth the time in my opinion.

http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/15/shockin...es-for-good.htm

[Scary Guy]

Darwin is my homeboy.

Did I mention I'm Autistic?

I wanted in on that lawsuit.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...deadly_immunity

[CatsEyeOfTheWiccan]

I would reserch all your opption and hear, see and than take action see if this best opption for your two children.

-CatsEye

PS- Tina, can give me your address I want send you something for the new edtion your family.

[BrassFusion]

I kinda wondered about the whole "Why no 20-year-old autistics?" thing myself. Very interesting.

[Marblez]

Darwin is my homeboy.

Did I mention I'm Autistic?

I wanted in on that lawsuit.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...deadly_immunity

Yep, I knew that. Autism is one of our main concerns. There are also some who think that the rise in ADD/ADHD are possibly related as well.

I just really don't see much in the way of reason to vaccinnate them.

[Marblez]

I would reserch all your opption and hear, see and than take action see if this best opption for your two children.

-CatsEye

PS- Tina, can give me your address I want send you something for the new edtion your family.

See PM, sir.

And whether you send anything or not, I truly appreciate the thought.

[Marblez]

I kinda wondered about the whole "Why no 20-year-old autistics?" thing myself. Very interesting.

They are out there - as SG stated. As a child I knew a boy with severe autism that would today be about 36-38 years old.

In the past 20 years the numbers have increased in striking numbers.

Although once considered rare, during the last two decades the chance of a child being diagnosed with autism has skyrocketed from one in 10,000 to one in 150.

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vaccin...m_epidemic.html

[pomba gira]

From a health point of view, as long as you stay in North America you can probably get away with not vaccinating your children, mainly because of something called "herd immunity" (Tokagemaru can explain this much better than I, being the son of a noted epidemiologist). Although there is a rise in some diseases like polio in non-vaccinating communities... but these are relatively isolated communities like Amish who don't benefit from herd immunity. However if you plan to send your children to public school, they will have to be vaccinated.

And... there are a lot more 20-year-old autistics than you think... autism just wasn't recognized until fairly recently. When it was, it was the profound cases... kids on the more functional end of the spectrum were labeled as cognitive impaired, emotionally impaired, or whatever. I'm not saying there is nothing to the vaccination/autism theory... but it bugs me when people are so quick to attach significance to a "huge increase" in a health problem, when a fair amount of the increase can be attributed to better diagnostic methods, more public awareness, and the "syndrome of the year" effect.

[Rayne]

I, myself, can't imagine not taking the risk of vaccinating. Nothing has been linked definately to immunizations ... and we'll probably never know. I have four children. One of whom, is Autistic. Another one has ADHD/ODD. I doubt immunizations had anything to do with it ... my other two do not have any similar problems. I would much rather deal with my son's Autism (which is high functioning) rather than have him possibly die from something that could have been prevented.

It's just my opinion though, I definately don't look down on anyone who chooses not to vaccinate. It is every parents right to choose what is best for their own children.

[Rayne]

Although once considered rare, during the last two decades the chance of a child being diagnosed with autism has skyrocketed from one in 10,000 to one in 150.

Partly this is due to the fact that it is a rather recent diagnosis. When I was a kid ... and I'm only 28 ... Autism was very rare. Now they have an ENTIRE SPECTRUM that if you fall on, your Autistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistic_spectrum

There was no spectrum years ago ... Take PDD-NOS, for example, those children were mostly either diagnosed as emotionally or cognativelly impaired and simply put in a self contained classroom.

My mother has worked at a school for Autistic children for about 17 years now. We saw the difference between truely AUTISTIC children and the children who fall somewhere else on the spectrum. When that happened, enrollment skyrocketed there. They had to add a whole nother building because of it.

[sass_in_the_pants]

The big jump in autism, as Pomba and Rayne said, is more often due to diagnosis rather than an actual increase in the number of children affected.

Here's a link from Pub Med for you, if you're interested:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?D...Pubmed_RVDocSum

And, I think we might not have 'herd immunity' in the future, not like we do now. The way herd immunitiy works, of course, is that if no one else around you can get the measles, then you have no one to catch it from, and so you're safe. However, the world is getting smaller and smaller. Your children will have much greater exposure to people born elsewhere in the world, particulary the Middle East, Africa and Asia, and the practice of immunization is not nearly as widespread in those countries as it is here.

In the end, it's your choice of course.

I know you just want to do what's best for the kiddos, and I am sure you will.

[Rayne]

The big jump in autism, as Pomba and Rayne said, is more often due to diagnosis rather than an actual increase in the number of children affected.

Here's a link from Pub Med for you, if you're interested:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?D...Pubmed_RVDocSum

Exactly. The actual number of children diagnosed as truely Autistic, has not increased much over the years ... but adding the spectrum has made it look like it has. I am not opposed to the spectrum at all, my son actually falls on the spectrum and not in the truely Autistic range. He has a FORM of Autism (He has Asperger's Syndrome and most likley will be able to function at normal levels with little help), but not true Autism (which most of them can not function in society at all, even with help - they are the ones you see on tv that seem "cut off from the world"). But they should explain why such a big increase when they release the numbers like that.

I saw an Oprah special on Autism earlier this month. She said it was becoming an epidemic, she had some parents on her show and read the statistics like every family needs to worry. She said nothing about the spectrum, and all the parents she had on the show were parents with children with a truely Autistic diagnosis. That shouldn't be all your seeing. There is much more to the scope that she cut out.

[BrassFusion]

But if at this point, after how many years of diagnosing this disorder, shouldn't we at least have a foggy idea of what might cause it before we assume, "it's NOT the immunizations, it MUSTN'T be the immunizations!!"

[ttogreh]

Oh, for flying fuck's on a vibrating reindeer's SAKE!

If you do not vaccinate your child, he might contract a deadly disease and DIE. If you vaccinate your child, there is a slight, slight, SLIGHT chance that your child may... through a confluence of environmental factors, individual biology, genetics, epigenetics, and as yet to be determined causalities... develop a TREATABLE neurologic condition.

DEATH, or a CHANCE of a TREATABLE neurologic condition.

Where's the needle? I'll stick my kid, personally.

[creatureofthenyte]

Like my gram used ta say, " An Ounce of Prevention, is worth a Pound of Cure"

[Medea]

It is of course up to you, but personally, I would go ahead and immunize. The benefits, in my mind, far outweigh the risks.

[pomba gira]

But if at this point, after how many years of diagnosing this disorder, shouldn't we at least have a foggy idea of what might cause it before we assume, "it's NOT the immunizations, it MUSTN'T be the immunizations!!"

Read the link Sass posted. No one is assuming anything. Bottom line- despite a lot of research done by a lot of smart people, no one has been able to show any causal relation between vaccines and/or thimerosal and autism spectrum disorder. So a more accurate way of stating the point Rayne, Sass & I are making is "To the best of our considerable ability to discover these things, it really, really doesn't seem to be the immunizations".

And there's a large number of illnessess/disorders where we have a really good idea what doesn't cause it, but not much idea what does. That isn't knowledge that just naturally follows from being able to diagnose an illness.

[Homicidalheathen]

I heard something the other day, that I will have a greater chance of getting shingles in old age because I had the chicken pox vacine?

[sass_in_the_pants]

Exactly. The actual number of children diagnosed as truely Autistic, has not increased much over the years ... but adding the spectrum has made it look like it has. I am not opposed to the spectrum at all, my son actually falls on the spectrum and not in the truely Autistic range. He has a FORM of Autism (He has Asperger's Syndrome and most likley will be able to function at normal levels with little help), but not true Autism (which most of them can not function in society at all, even with help - they are the ones you see on tv that seem "cut off from the world"). But they should explain why such a big increase when they release the numbers like that.

I saw an Oprah special on Autism earlier this month. She said it was becoming an epidemic, she had some parents on her show and read the statistics like every family needs to worry. She said nothing about the spectrum, and all the parents she had on the show were parents with children with a truely Autistic diagnosis. That shouldn't be all your seeing. There is much more to the scope that she cut out.

Looking back, Guy, my husband, says that as a child he would have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and ADHD. But those simpy weren't diagnoses that were made back then. Until the age of three or so, he had a vocabularly of maybe twenty words, and enjoyed spending afternoons rocking in the rocking chair, cutting up pieces of paper into bits. All of his clothes needed to be extra-soft or he wouldn't wear them, and in a large crowd of people he would jump around and yip like a little dog because he was terrified.

Here's how the story ended for Guy. He ended up FINE, absolutely FINE. He's finishing his PhD in microbiology and genetics in December, has job offers falling from the sky. And by the way, it was easy for him. Ridiculously easy, I think that's one of the other effects of the Asperger's, he has a focus that most people never have, and he only needs to read something once for it to stick in his head forever. He has ME for a wife (we should ALL be so lucky!) and socially, he is considered by friends, family and strangers, to be compassionate, fun, witty and just all-around good company.

He still rocks incessantly (he's rocked three chairs to death since I've known him), loves his rock collection (all smooth polished spheres of the same size, that's important, and he keeps several in his pockets) and still doesn't like being in big crowds of strangers. But, really, that's it. He otherwise leads a very normal, happy and successful life.

Oprah likes to tell horrible stories. I like to tell nice ones. I know that you already know that the prospects for your son are very good, I just wanted to give you a little more reason to believe that.

[violentivy]

My hubby is austistic. he's in his twenties. I didn't get a chance to watch the video as I am at work, but if it's referring to the mercury that is supposidly in immunizations, it isn't. It was removed from them back in 1994. My husband had an article about it.

I'm learning disabled, my husband is austistic and has a rare form of epliepsy... we all have our own story, and we all would love to pinpoint blame on any one thing, (in my case I was born with the umblicial cord around my neck and was the color of a blueberry when I popped out.) the truth is, nobody knows. I'd rather take that chance, knowing my sons will not have to die of some painful disease.

[Homicidalheathen]

,' myself, can't imagine not taking the risk of vaccinating. Nothing has been linked definately to immunizations ... and we'll probably never know. I have four children. One of whom, is Autistic. Another one has ADHD/ODD. I doubt immunizations had anything to do with it ... my other two do not have any similar problems. I would much rather deal with my son's Autism (which is high functioning) rather than have him possibly die from something that could have been prevented'

Ditto that.....but the thing is....they are not allowed to enter grade school without proof of vacines so what choice do you have?

I don't even thing christian scientists get away with that....

[angusfergus]

Vaccinations do not cause autism. This is a misconception due to the fact that the preservative Thimerosal has in the past been used in vaccines, and is currently used in flu shots. This is a misconception because any relation of mercury poisoning to autism has been dealing with methyl mercury, which is the kind generally found in thermometers. Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury, which has been found to be significantly less dangerous due to the fact the body can clear it out much easier and quicker.

More information:

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm

http://www.myomancy.com/2005/05/ethyl_mercury_v

http://www.myomancy.com/category/autism/autism-and-mercury/

[Homicidalheathen]

...through the coarse of our lives we end up consuming or absorbing much mercury......it causes gastrointestinal diseases as well....but I doubt thats what caused mine...

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/mercury-poi...g-symptoms.html

I just had my fillings removed and kept spitting the whole time, now they have the nice white ones....but if your older like me, you may have silver....get them replaced. You swallow pieces of it over your life.....and it doesn't take much. Keep spitting while they are chisling them out.

[pomba gira]

Looking back, Guy, my husband, says that as a child he would have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and ADHD. But those simpy weren't diagnoses that were made back then. Until the age of three or so, he had a vocabularly of maybe twenty words, and enjoyed spending afternoons rocking in the rocking chair, cutting up pieces of paper into bits. All of his clothes needed to be extra-soft or he wouldn't wear them, and in a large crowd of people he would jump around and yip like a little dog because he was terrified.

Here's how the story ended for Guy. He ended up FINE, absolutely FINE. He's finishing his PhD in microbiology and genetics in December, has job offers falling from the sky. And by the way, it was easy for him. Ridiculously easy, I think that's one of the other effects of the Asperger's, he has a focus that most people never have, and he only needs to read something once for it to stick in his head forever. He has ME for a wife (we should ALL be so lucky!) and socially, he is considered by friends, family and strangers, to be compassionate, fun, witty and just all-around good company.

He still rocks incessantly (he's rocked three chairs to death since I've known him), loves his rock collection (all smooth polished spheres of the same size, that's important, and he keeps several in his pockets) and still doesn't like being in big crowds of strangers. But, really, that's it. He otherwise leads a very normal, happy and successful life.

Oprah likes to tell horrible stories. I like to tell nice ones. I know that you already know that the prospects for your son are very good, I just wanted to give you a little more reason to believe that.

Nowadays he DEFINITELY would get an AS tag. And he's far from unique... I've heard that in some of the big Silicon Valley software design joints, a lot of the workspaces look like textbook examples of the kind of modifications commonly recommended for autism spectrum kids. These are people whose atypical neurological hardwiring makes them perfectly suited for a skill that is extremely valuable in our society. It really makes me wonder... how many of my LD kids would be primo 'lite at some valuable skill that doesn't exist yet? In a similar vein, there is speculation that having a few ADHD people in your tribe would have been a huge survival boost back in hunter-gatherer days. This is one reason I don't like to hear these conditions called "disabilities". With my LD students in particular I'm convinced that the real issue is a learning DIFFERENCE and a TEACHING disability... not of any individual school or teacher, but in traditional methods of instruction as a whole.

I'm learning disabled, my husband is austistic and has a rare form of epliepsy... we all have our own story, and we all would love to pinpoint blame on any one thing, (in my case I was born with the umblicial cord around my neck and was the color of a blueberry when I popped out.) the truth is, nobody knows.

Important point. When bad things happen to us or our loved ones, we desperately want to find a reason behind it. We want it to not be our fault, but we don't want it to be just the random workings of kismet, either. So we tend to seize on any halfway-logical explanation for the misfortune, and become so invested in it that we can't let go of it even when given evidence to the contrary. Dangerous stuff on a lot of different levels.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Nowadays he DEFINITELY would get an AS tag. And he's far from unique... I've heard that in some of the big Silicon Valley software design joints, a lot of the workspaces look like textbook examples of the kind of modifications commonly recommended for autism spectrum kids. These are people whose atypical neurological hardwiring makes them perfectly suited for a skill that is extremely valuable in our society. It really makes me wonder... how many of my LD kids would be primo 'lite at some valuable skill that doesn't exist yet?

I told hubby about this thread, and he said one of the speakers he heard has a son who is autistic, and after working in science his whole life, and experiencing autism first-hand, he's convinced many mathemiticians and scientists are in fact AS. So, I think you're on to something Pomba!!