Just Checking My Pm Mail.....

[Steven]

figured I'd better check my mail, in case I had any PM's.

I did.

(thank you)

interesting, where that thread went.

more interesting, how it went away.

my email address is: donthurtmuch@yahoo.com

until we can speak freely, we cannot really speak at all.

[Scary Guy]

Like I said the DCC board did have its advantages (pretty much in that only aspect).

[phee]

Umm... OK

[hunhee]

The senior mods and junior mods care about this site. Shame on them for wanting us to play nice. The last post that you put up there was a whinny post about "oh help I'm being repressed,goodbye everyone forever" guess what, there are rules to this board, remember? If you forgot here.. http://www.detroitgothic.net/t131.html

You guys make me laugh with this crap. I don't often post my strong opinions about shit but ..umm if DCC was SO much better, go fucking hang on that board. Oh wait, where is that board? hmm.. gone because they didn't care enough about it OR the people on it to even care to keep the site anymore.

I've read them, I've decided to abide by them, but then again, I guess it's just like all other things that come with a manual, people just do what they want, abuse it the way they want, and never actually bother to read them. Then, when something happens to said item, and it breaks before the expected lifespan; people feel the need to complain. Guess what, most of you pay NOTHING for this site. Yet, you think you can shove your beliefs and morals down the troats of others, and do it rudely sometimes, and then you feel cheated because you get told to abide by the rules. I think you got a pretty fair return on your non-existant investment, don't you think?

I'm almost positive you guys spend more than an hour a day reading posts, I'm not saying I don't like your beliefs, and that I don't like differing opinions, I agree with a lot of the crap your spewing, but there are nice ways to spew and not nice ways to spew. I can see where sometimes your emotions get in the way, and you spew not-nicely. That's what a mod is for, to keep that stuff in check, BECAUSE they have to think objectively about the other person's feelings when you're not thinking rationally. I also have a hard time believing that they don't warn the other person when they don't respond rationally.

A mod's job isn't easy, and you guys should be glad that they take their jobs seriously. This forum topic is just a play at drama, and I can't even believe I took the bait for this one, but serioulsy how many times can you run over, and back up over, a dead piece of roadmeat before you think it's enough.

For those of you leaving, I will miss you, but we can't miss you if you keep coming back, and posting shit like this. Say your goodbyes in PM's if you dislike the site so bad, and leave it at that. When you've cooled off, and decided to come back for good, I will welcome you happily with open arms. It's really quite a shame, that your feelings got hurt and it had to come to this. I think everyone adds their own uniqueness to the board, that I've come to love.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but I've not been here that long, and even I'VE had enough of the bitching, I have read enough posts to see that the mods don't get involved unless they feel something is amiss. I think people fail to realize, that mods may agree with your opinions, but they don't agree with the way you posted it. I feel bad that I won't get the opportunity to get to know the ones who are leaving better, but apparently you've hit your limit, and I respect that. But fading out quietly takes a certain level of maturity, please maintain the decorum of the board.

You can have debate without emotions, and without drama. It's called adding in solid facts, and evidence to back up what you post. I'm not saying that the emotional aspect doesn't interest me, but when your feelings get hurt because of it, again this should be another warning sign for you to step away, and take a breath and post later when your head is more level.

That's my ten cents.

Thanks.

[Medea]

I will disagree with you on one key point, Hunhee.

I've honestly never seen Steven try to cram his beliefs down anyone else's throat. And I was one of the people disagreeing with him in that thread. His belief in that thread was in the minority, no question, but that doesn't make it less valid. In fact, when I saw his response to my post within it, I came to understand where he was coming from, even if I still disagree with him.

There are some debates that are going to be more emotional than others, it's just a fact. But if you go back and read that thread, it was a whole bunch of people jumping on Steven and trying to cram their beliefs down HIS throat, honestly.

And once more, he never once brought up religion as a reason for why he felt the way he does. People assumed

he said something about religion, knowing that he is Christian, but he never actually brought it up.

Yes, I do feel there was a violation of the "play nice" rule here. However I feel more upset about how it seems okay that everyone gangs up on him, shouting "You're wrong! How dare you not believe in the same thing as us!" in his face.

He wasn't being bigoted, he wasn't trying to convert anyone to his beliefs. He simply stated what -his- beliefs were about gay marriage, in a thread about gay marriage, and then defended his beliefs when others questioned them.

[Fierce Critter]

Medea?

DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO

Steven knows I disagree with him strongly as well. Yet, hm, amazing how we're able to discuss our differences without jumping down each other's throat or calling each other names.

Hunhee, you're allowed to speak your mind like anyone else on this site (except maybe Steven), but I think you'd see you're off-base if you'd been along a little while longer.

[Fierce Critter]

By the way, to respond to an OT bit above, the DCC board went down because the owner is a manic/depressive apparently who deleted the board while on a downswing.

I loathed that board. But it did have it's selling points.

[Steven]

the Mods are not the only people who care about this site. not by a long shot.

and yes iv'e donated $$$ - I suppose thats a fair point but now I've met your criteria???

if you reserach ME - you'll find that overall Ive done a pretty good job being respectful as well.

like anybody when Im hot im hot - but its not HOW I say things, but WHAT Ive been willing to say and to whom thats gotten me in trouble. that 7 day suspension was ludicrous.

I CARE about this site - which is precisely why I posted what i did, how I did, which you cannot re read and reflect upon over time - because it was edited away and then anothers point of view about MY thoughts and intentions were posted in its place.

that thread Hunhee - had alot more to do with all of us than my complaint. But you'll not get a chance to reflect on that.

by teh way Ive been a moderator on a similar board in Los ANgels before moving here, a board for Christian men. talk about clash of the titans and differing points of view and high emotion - been there - I understand the challanges, from both sides of the fence.

this is your voice people - or is it?

[phee]

I don't want to get too involved with this thread as it seems that it's specific purpose was to create drama... and it seems to have worked... but I think the main issue was the someone with a minority opionin stated it, people disagreed, and he defended his opionion and he didn't like it, so he left...

I was told by him "man up" myself (still trying to figure out what that means to be honest)... But I think the thread in question had the quality of a heated debate... and then between members it crossed into the "personal" zone... therein causing drama... then another thread was created for the purpose of venting (which is fine) and outing those who had offended (which is not so fine).

I am used to being in the minority at times around people who disagree (not on this forum a lot but you know)... Just because someone disagrees with you and states there opinion doesn't meant they are beating up on you, although I can understand how one could feel that way when you are in the minority...

If I went to a Latino/Mexican board online and stated that I don't think that Latino/Mexicans should be able to get the same amount of pay and should not be able to get married (respectfully), I would be pretty ignorant if I were to expect people not to at least some passionate resistance, I would be lucky if I were not called names and treated with contempt. Likewise when someone comes to a board which has gay people, and a lot pf people that know gay people, and states (respectfully) that they do not deserve the same rights as he does, and starts making over generalizations about their lifestyle, he is going to meet with some pretty big resistance because he is talking directly to peoples lifestyles and hearts... and the thing that doesn't make any sense is, knowing all of this the person who was stating (respectfully) his opionions about this then feels beet up on...

The thing I like about this board is even though the viewpoints were presented here that were extremely against the grain... even in the thread in question it remained (for the most part) respectful. This is very rare...

I think we can all respect each other without the drama, and without the singaling out... part of respecting others is respecting who you are talking to, If I say to one of my gay friends, you don't deserve equal rights to me... respect the reaction that you know you might get. Don't feel singled out or that you cannot speak freely, just use some common sense when it comes to who your are talking to...

[Onyx]

Whenever a thread gets deleted it is not done lightly and not without a lot of discussion and consideration behind the scenes. Almost always there are many in the thread at fault, however it seems one or two will take it personally. Either we get accused of not doing enough or doing too much. It's really discouraging.

Seems no matter what is done, someone will always find fault. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[freydis]

Seriously, guys. What I keep seeing is people having heated but engaging discussions, sometimes getting a little nasty, sometimes a little personal. Then people get reminded to tone it down, and then they melodramatically stomp off, some leave catty remarks, etc. Welcome to humanity. Can we get back to business as usual, now?

[hunhee]

Okay so maybe "cram down throat" was a tad harsh... it wasn't even me talking about Steven in particular...

But now that you mention it, lets address Steven.. When I posted what I posted, I wasn't JUST thinking the gay marriage posts, I think you should stalk some of his posts for examples of what I'm talking about. It's not necessarily what he posts, but how he goes about it. I guess you could assume that I was talking about him because look who started this forum discussion, stiring stuff up, again another example of what I'm talking about.

I know why he does this, it's to stir up drama, because for some reason some people feed off drama.

I just don't like the bad-mouthing of the mods. They have a job to do, it's not an easy job, and I'm sure some of them don't like taking the actions they need to take, because frankly after all of this is said and done, we're all friends here. If we weren't, we wouldn't be coming on this board and posting every day.

[hunhee]

the Mods are not the only people who care about this site. not by a long shot.

and yes iv'e donated $$$ - I suppose thats a fair point but now I've met your criteria???

if you reserach ME - you'll find that overall Ive done a pretty good job being respectful as well.

like anybody when Im hot im hot - but its not HOW I say things, but WHAT Ive been willing to say and to whom thats gotten me in trouble. that 7 day suspension was ludicrous.

I CARE about this site - which is precisely why I posted what i did, how I did, which you cannot re read and reflect upon over time - because it was edited away and then anothers point of view about MY thoughts and intentions were posted in its place.

that thread Hunhee - had alot more to do with all of us than my complaint. But you'll not get a chance to reflect on that.

by teh way Ive been a moderator on a similar board in Los ANgels before moving here, a board for Christian men. talk about clash of the titans and differing points of view and high emotion - been there - I understand the challanges, from both sides of the fence.

this is your voice people - or is it?

I read that post, BEFORE it was edited and it wasn't at all in the "play nice rules".

AGAIN I reiterate, I was NOT talking particularly about you. It was a general statement.

[Fierce Critter]

Anytime someone brings up a challenge to the status quo...

...it gets labled "drama".

ROFLMAO

What, people can't express concern/exasperation/disagreement with something/someone without it being disparagingly stomped down into "drama"?

God, are we that afraid of conflict here?

Hell, I agree with "play nice" to the extreme. But I think too many people on here defend any imagined "attack" or variance on Stepford Wives saccharine sweetness like their lives depend on total and complete perfection.

I think some of the people who keep telling Steven and his ilk to "lighten up" need to consider whether they themselves are making mountains out of molehills.

Can't we all just freaking CALM THE FUCK DOWN and take things a little less seriously, a little less personally?

(There was a time, when I was modding, that if I tried to head-off the kind of conflict that's currently going on here, I was labled a "Drama Queen." I find it hilarious and eye-rolling how the exact things I was labeled as dramatic for, are the things today's mods are championing.)

[phee]

Anytime someone brings up a challenge to the status quo...

...it gets labled "drama".

ROFLMAO

What, people can't express concern/exasperation/disagreement with something/someone without it being disparagingly stomped down into "drama"?

God, are we that afraid of conflict here?

Hell, I agree with "play nice" to the extreme. But I think too many people on here defend any imagined "attack" or variance on Stepford Wives saccharine sweetness like their lives depend on total and complete perfection.

I think some of the people who keep telling Steven and his ilk to "lighten up" need to consider whether they themselves are making mountains out of molehills.

Can't we all just freaking CALM THE FUCK DOWN and take things a little less seriously, a little less personally?

(There was a time, when I was modding, that if I tried to head-off the kind of conflict that's currently going on here, I was labled a "Drama Queen." I find it hilarious and eye-rolling how the exact things I was labeled as dramatic for, are the things today's mods are championing.)

Indeed... which is... well why stomping off and saying I will take my bat and ball and go home seems so silly

[Steven]

I read that post, BEFORE it was edited and it wasn't at all in the "play nice rules".

AGAIN I reiterate, I was NOT talking particularly about you. It was a general statement.

accepted Hunhee. Peace.

[Fierce Critter]

Point.Missed.

Nevermind. I give up.

See ya in other forums for a while. Once again, the politics/religion/philosophy forum goes to hell in a handbasket.

[Steven]

I don't want to get too involved with this thread as it seems that it's specific purpose was to create drama... and it seems to have worked... but I think the main issue was the someone with a minority opionin stated it, people disagreed, and he defended his opionion and he didn't like it, so he left...

I was told by him "man up" myself (still trying to figure out what that means to be honest)... But I think the thread in question had the quality of a heated debate... and then between members it crossed into the "personal" zone... therein causing drama... then another thread was created for the purpose of venting (which is fine) and outing those who had offended (which is not so fine).

I am used to being in the minority at times around people who disagree (not on this forum a lot but you know)... Just because someone disagrees with you and states there opinion doesn't meant they are beating up on you, although I can understand how one could feel that way when you are in the minority...

If I went to a Latino/Mexican board online and stated that I don't think that Latino/Mexicans should be able to get the same amount of pay and should not be able to get married (respectfully), I would be pretty ignorant if I were to expect people not to at least some passionate resistance, I would be lucky if I were not called names and treated with contempt. Likewise when someone comes to a board which has gay people, and a lot pf people that know gay people, and states (respectfully) that they do not deserve the same rights as he does, and starts making over generalizations about their lifestyle, he is going to meet with some pretty big resistance because he is talking directly to peoples lifestyles and hearts... and the thing that doesn't make any sense is, knowing all of this the person who was stating (respectfully) his opionions about this then feels beet up on...

The thing I like about this board is even though the viewpoints were presented here that were extremely against the grain... even in the thread in question it remained (for the most part) respectful. This is very rare...

I think we can all respect each other without the drama, and without the singaling out... part of respecting others is respecting who you are talking to, If I say to one of my gay friends, you don't deserve equal rights to me... respect the reaction that you know you might get. Don't feel singled out or that you cannot speak freely, just use some common sense when it comes to who your are talking to...

Drama: somone (those of you citing it I presume??) please insert its defintion as applies to DGN here.

Screw it - everybody toss in and lets compare....

Next - please insert what words, phrases, sarcasm, etc are unacceptable here.

What I intended Hunhee and Phee - was to illustrate where we go as a group far too often. I wanted to illcite a pretty predicatble response - including a thread shut down. I wnated to see who might take issue with a shut down. And who might take issue with the clicks within DGN. I wanted to see who would return my challanges. I wanted to be provacative. and I wanted to be blunt. I wanted your attention.

because I belevie we have a problem.

and I belevie we have a double standard

and I beleive we have issues with censorship and respect.

Phee I called you out because I felt you did not/do not always adhere to that which you admonish me for.

I used a specific example which you chose not to repsond to.

Now that can be called drama stirring yes.

But I wanted to illustrate something, which I beleive I did.

I do not hate you Phee. I do not wish you any ill will.

You guys know me - you know that I do not run and hide.

if Im accused of somethign i will adress it.

I may question you in return.

if you fail to acknowledge after accusing me then I may press you to finish what you started.

I may have the audacity to beleive its worth something productive in the long run.

Now - is this proactive or reactive to something that first was sent in my direction?

fair question?.

Question to you Phee and any of you:

is it unreasonable - for me to ask of you - to NOT declare my intentions for me? After all Ive been twice now declared by somebody else (Troy and Phee) in the last week.

like I scratched my leg right now and who felt it? Troy? Phee? HunHee?

Just me?"

If you feel I am at some OBVIOUS position -try this: "AS IF". or "SEEM TO BE".

example: Steven - I feel AS IF you are blah blah blah....you get it.

Steven - you SEEM TO BE blah blah blah blah balh......you get it.

you see that way I get to speak for myself. My thoughts, my voice. Its respectful. It soothes the savage beast that seems to be in some points of view - ME.

go back thru these recent threads - do I ever use that technique? why would I do that, in light of these charges of drama mongering?

so.... moving on:

all of you are satisfied at how my thread was shut down a few days ago, without even my participation in it?

you've no problem with that?

Everybody got to say their peice?

everybody felt it was out so of control (even though I wasent even there) and needed to be put out like a wild fire because of the torrid exchanges between HH and Pharoh? It was harming you in some way? casuing you pain? Changing your personal lives?

ANybody wish it could have been explored a bit more?

ANybody have any thoughts on Marc's statments about trasparancy?

anybody got anything else to talk about?

anybody want THIS thread shut down?

anybody have an opinion here?

your floor, to which I must comply - (remember this post is subjkect to review prior to its release to the general DGN republic).

Steven

[Scary Guy]

God, are we that afraid of conflict here?

According to the rules, yes we are.

I follow the rules here like I follow the rules of society. I obey them but only because I have to, and if I can get away with something I will. This is why I'm abrasive, but not as much as some. Personally I've never received a ban or even a reprimand that I can remember. I self moderate when I need to before that happens. I remember one heated e-mail discussion, which was taken to e-mail, because it would have gotten us both banned. I won't go into it, but lets just say the issue (music related) was no where near as important as some of the issues and topics that exist within this subforum.

Granted I don't agree with everything everyone says here. But I do believe everyone has the right to voice their opinion, even if it's a negative one against another member of the forum. Failing that there are PM's an personal e-mail, or you can just avoid their posts as in "I don't like him/her and/or his/her views, I'm going to avoid him/her like the plague".

I don't think he's trying to cause any drama, I think he just wants to voice his opinion that even though I don't agree with it I believe he's entitled to.

It really isn't that hard to understand though. Work within the system's given set of rules, but heated debate is fine as long as you don't attack anyone personally (and from what I've seen attacking a group of people is fine as long as you don't attack any individuals, which is a pretty nice loophole).

Oh yeah he was goating a discussion about this subject, no question about that. But I do believe it is a topic that needs to be discussed, and was also pretty sure the thread was headed in this direction when he started it.

Also, I hate drama queens (note taking offense to this means you admit you're a drama queen, which no one wants to do, a nice catch 22).

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, let me get this straight phee... if someone is in the minority, they should just accept repression, being stigmatized and attacks on their personality/morals/ethics., because well.. they are in the minority and it's the majority's God given right to repress, stigmatize and attack the minority.

Thins makes so much more sense now. We, all of us, need to live by your way... things would be so much better.

BTW: You are not stupid, you know exactly what "man up" means. Though you feign ignorance every time it's ever posted. But just in case you have forgotten, it means to take responsibility for what you say and do and that your willing to take what ever repercussions those words or actions bring. Be a Man. Grow a set. or more to the point, stop being a pussy.

[phee]

Who was stopping someone from stating their point of view? I think the problem was the response wasn't liked... and then it got rude...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't know. I was referring to your post above... where you advocate repressing the minority.

[phee]

I don't know. I was referring to your post above... where you advocate repressing the minority.

No I don't actually... I say if you are stating an unpopular opinion... be prepared to meet with resistance

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

but thats what your describing.

[Steven]

It really isn't that hard to understand though. Work within the system's given set of rules, but heated debate is fine as long as you don't attack anyone personally (and from what I've seen attacking a group of people is fine as long as you don't attack any individuals, which is a pretty nice loophole).

ok this was awesome