Just Checking My Pm Mail.....

[know_buddy_kares]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ok on to some of the things that are said *kicks snail* NOW this thread is going somewhere...

The cencorship issue... As far as I've seen, as long as you don't bully anyone, you're fine. I've said alot of very very abrasive and outright offencive things or posted pics, that really had a vulgar taste or such, but there's some out there that share my dry and morbid sense of humor. I've been banned before, and yes I know why.

The point I'm going to try to drive to without tripping up too much, is the fine line between stating what you belive, and just being an ass. As vampyro, when someone pissed me off, or i felt they attacked me, instead of taking it to the mods (wich i felt was like tattling on them) I'd give it right back, and it would be insulting. Some people cannot take what they dish, some people don't dish it out, and some people just don't like seing an online argument going no where... because if you got die hard beliver that black is the essence of all colours, arguing with die hard believer that black is the absence of all colours, and neither is willing to judge (though both are right in their own way of thinking) it will eventually frusterate the other, and degrade into personal attacks. then it's back and forth..

True DCC had a free for all forum, wich honestly I greatly appreciated. The catch to that, most the time, only blithering idiots would use that with the famos quote "fag" or something like that. Here I think people do get a bit more intelegent conversations, and could take a free flame board to it's advantages without reducing themselves to looking like 5 year olds. (granted there are the few that will though) but if someone's not interested in reading insults and possibly some very rude and crass comments, then they don't even have to bother with the bloody forum section. Though I will say I don't want to see something like that here as a fresh pile of shit always attracts flies.

Could the board be less strict with play nice rules? Possibly. Is it not strict enough? Possibly. It's gotta be a though balance, to try to keep people from feeling as free as they can to say it like they see it without having to get in trouble, yet keep the immaturity levels to a low and enjoyable for most the other readers. Note, I didn't say all readers because you can't absolutely make EVERYONE 100% satisfied.

I do think things are fine the way they are. So what if some of us get yelled at by the mods, we obviously did something they didn't like. If that's the case, maybe some of it was an honest mistake, I know if I got yelled at now, I'd actually really appreciate a quote of what I said, and specifically why it wasn't approved of. Back then, I knew what I was saying wrong, It was intentional. Now, yeah I'm blunt and sometimes abrasive, but like anyone else I've seen here, I see everyone at least make a decent effort to keep things clean and tolerant of other people.

Steven, I know you didn't like the how your post was edited, sometimes I don't like what they did about my old posts, but it's their board, and they're doing what they feel is best for the board. I mean, you can ask try why he felt it was offensive or a bait for drama... he's a very reasonable and down to earth guy who will try to explain it the best he can.

But you can't go off and say there's cencorship here, because honestly, if there was the level of cencorship you say there is... 90% of my posts would be deleted... especially the ones with the pictures.

[Scary Guy]

I see some stuff go on and scratch my head and wonder how did this person get away with that......and not that person?

A combination of popularity, post count, respect, seniority, and tact. Knowing the admin/mods personally probably would help too.

[Fierce Critter]

A combination of popularity, post count, respect, seniority, and tact. Knowing the admin/mods personally probably would help too.

I might add "viewpoint, political stance, religious leaning" as to why some don't get away with same.

[Steven]

Before this all reached the escalation point htat it has (on my cue - I accep that) I went to said Mod privately. And non agressively. Twice.

I got no reply.

I think it would have helped......

[Steven]

By teh way Vampyro in regard to yrou thoughts on my not being censored....

earlier this morning I posted 9 questions on a new thread. it was about 9ish I beleive.

that thread was strictly Q and A - no agression, no calling out.

I wanted to know ALL of your thoughts on moderator practice and your voice as applies....

Ive since had 4 or 5 of my posts in THIS thread allowed to go thru (remember I am on 7 day pre-approval status to ensure that I comply with the RULES of DGN).

But my new thread? My 9 questions?

Have you seen it?

I havent.

Ive seen other posts following that thread I tried to start.

But not my thread asking for your participation.

what do you think thats about?

(this question presented at 6:06 PM Sunday and subject to 7 day pre-approval for content by the Mod Staff)

[torn asunder]

By teh way Vampyro in regard to yrou thoughts on my not being censored....

earlier this morning I posted 9 questions on a new thread. it was about 9ish I beleive.

that thread was strictly Q and A - no agression, no calling out.

I wanted to know ALL of your thoughts on moderator practice and your voice as applies....

Ive since had 4 or 5 of my posts in THIS thread allowed to go thru (remember I am on 7 day pre-approval status to ensure that I comply with the RULES of DGN).

But my new thread? My 9 questions?

Have you seen it?

I havent.

Ive seen other posts following that thread I tried to start.

But not my thread asking for your participation.

what do you think thats about?

(this question presented at 6:06 PM Sunday and subject to 7 day pre-approval for content by the Mod Staff)

that particular post is being discussed currently. the posts that have gone through here have been fine, the other one is questionable. i hope that's not too difficult to understand...

[Scary Guy]

that particular post is being discussed currently. the posts that have gone through here have been fine, the other one is questionable. i hope that's not too difficult to understand...

All content is questionable given the right circumstances.

Wait you're saying this thread isn't questionable (or wasn't when it started)?

Also when did this pree-approval stuff start. I figured if it got out of hand it would be locked/deleted per usual.

[Steven]

that particular post is being discussed currently. the posts that have gone through here have been fine, the other one is questionable. i hope that's not too difficult to understand...

for the record Mike my only intention with that thread if it is allowed is to create a public vehicle for discussion that is not an offshoot of any sort of drama, personal stuff, anger, in-fighting, etc etc etc.

its actually what I was leaning toward before I got so angry - there's a fair and honest admission.

the fact that it is questionable....is probably the best example of what I want to hopefully see discussed - because Im not violating any DGN bilaws in asking these 9 questions. Although I disagree with the decisions that were made - I accept my portion of the responsibility in things getting out of hand....I accept that I made thigns difficult for you.

these questions however, are just questions. let them breathe.....

[Reaper]

I am beginning to wonder if I have a 7 day preapproval on some of these threads and I don't even know why. Nothing was ever said to me. I just never see the thread appear at all.

[know_buddy_kares]

Before this all reached the escalation point htat it has (on my cue - I accep that) I went to said Mod privately. And non agressively. Twice.

I got no reply.

I think it would have helped......

I did the same thing and got no informative response, so then I told this mod to pull their head out of their ass...

then they banned me

[Steven]

I beleive a moderators job is a very difficult one.

but I also beleive all positions of authority need some form of accountability for decency and order.

Much like a celebrity must exchange thier power and influence for day to day recognition from the reuglar joes and therefore give up some fo their personal freedom.....

....I beleive a moderator NEEDS to take the time to connect when directly asked. It should come with the territory. And I think that the NOYFB policy needs to be looked at. At least it should not presented in that manner, its simply too dismissive and reducing. I personally do not need to know and could care less who is getting reprimanded. But if I asked you (any moderator) a question - especially privately - I believe the right thing to do is answer it.

If I cannot count on the most basic of human to human interaction and respect it bcomes difficult to NOT see a bias when I am then asked to comply. And I think thats basic human nature, not just Steven nature.

[Steven]

by the way Tuesday I get my wings back (I come off of the pre-approval status).

I want a cake. and beer.

[Onyx]

I am beginning to wonder if I have a 7 day preapproval on some of these threads and I don't even know why. Nothing was ever said to me. I just never see the thread appear at all.

I don't believe anyone has ever been set on preapproval or banned without much prior discussion and many warnings coming before that. If you were I'm sure you would have been notified and also would know the reason why.

Some of my stuff disappears like that too. (Much less here than at the buggy ezboard though).

[Reaper]

I don't believe anyone has ever been set on preapproval or banned without much prior discussion and many warnings coming before that. If you were I'm sure you would have been notified and also would know the reason why.

Some of my stuff disappears like that too. (Much less here than at the buggy ezboard though).

That must be whats happening then. I have had a lot of posts disappear forever. It hasn't happened as often as before, but its still happening on certain forums. I think the last time it happened a lot was on the current events forum. Anything I tried posting on there disappeared. But on the other forums I could post immediately.

[hunhee]

I beleive a moderators job is a very difficult one.

but I also beleive all positions of authority need some form of accountability for decency and order.

Much like a celebrity must exchange thier power and influence for day to day recognition from the reuglar joes and therefore give up some fo their personal freedom.....

....I beleive a moderator NEEDS to take the time to connect when directly asked. It should come with the territory. And I think that the NOYFB policy needs to be looked at. At least it should not presented in that manner, its simply too dismissive and reducing. I personally do not need to know and could care less who is getting reprimanded. But if I asked you (any moderator) a question - especially privately - I believe the right thing to do is answer it.

If I cannot count on the most basic of human to human interaction and respect it bcomes difficult to NOT see a bias when I am then asked to comply. And I think thats basic human nature, not just Steven nature.

I don't know, I would guess that would depend on the question being asked. If you're asking them if they're coming over to dinner, I can imagine that they'd be glad to answer your questions, but if you're asking if someone else got the same type of warning (which I'm just GUESSING that was what you asked, could be wrong, but that's what I would have done), I can understand why you got a NOYFB response, because honestly it is NOYFB. I think repremands should be kept private, because I'm guessing some people may feel slightly embarassed about being reprimanded, and the mods trying to save any shouts of foul play.

It appears to me that you think the mod chat should be public. I disagree with this type of thing. That would cause even MORE drama, let alone the mods effectively being able to discuss without feeling like they're under a magnifying glass all the time, that would suck.

You also have to realize that the mods are human (as stated before by someone else) they have lives outside of DGN (I know, shock!). Sometimes they're not on the board every day. I don't blame them. I've also noticed that sometimes this thing doesn't tell me when I have a new PM, I just go to that area, and sometimes see a new topic. You should re-PM them and ask them.. Hey! did you get your last PM, I am waiting on an answer. I'm sure that will prompt them to look at said PM and promptly respond, even with a "Just a minute, will be right with you, we're discussing it" type of thing. (hopefully the mods are listening and agreeing, and will someone PM the poor man back!?!?! hehe).

[Fierce Critter]

I don't think, Steven, that you're going to get the answers you're looking for.

Why do I think so? Because I don't think anyone has a set answer.

I was a mod once, right? And one of the things I used to try to do was keep an eye out for potential trouble, and alert my fellow staff members to keep a heads-up and maybe privately message people who were getting a bit carefree with the "play nice" rules. I also moved a few "hot" threads into staff only areas for troubleshooting.

I got called a drama queen, flamed, and told I was taking things too personally and seriously.

Now, it's standard practice for mods to head-off potential trouble by privately messaging people for toeing the "play nice" line, to move threads or delete them altogether, and to outright edit posts.

There's no pat answer because interpretation of the rules and how to enforce them constantly changes here.

I don't think you're inciting drama. I think people who use that term, frankly, are lightweights who can't handle disagreement, conflict & confrontation.

No, I think you're basically asking for a hardcore definition of rules and practices. And I don't think you're going to get it, no matter how many posts you make asking for it.

My advice? Let's just say I've been happier here since I basically decided that, in the grand scheme of things, DGN is paltry. Yes, I enjoy being here. Damned good conversation on an awesome range of topics. But homelife, my marriage, my family, and pursuits other than DGN in general are waaaaaaaaaaaay more worth getting panties bunched about.

It's like I tell my sister, when my mother does one of the thousand things she does that can seriously irk a person. "You know she's going to do that, so why don't you learn to expect it, look past it when it happens and get some peace from the fact that you can't change it." Yet, as intelligent as she is, my sister will get teed off at something my mother has done for decades as if it's new every time.

Learn to expect certain things here, and either shrug it off when it happens, or don't encourage it.

I know - sounds like a lame-ass cop-out. But, dude, priorities, ya know? Pick a more worthy battle.

[Steven]

I don't know, I would guess that would depend on the question being asked. If you're asking them if they're coming over to dinner, I can imagine that they'd be glad to answer your questions, but if you're asking if someone else got the same type of warning (which I'm just GUESSING that was what you asked, could be wrong, but that's what I would have done), I can understand why you got a NOYFB response, because honestly it is NOYFB. I think repremands should be kept private, because I'm guessing some people may feel slightly embarassed about being reprimanded, and the mods trying to save any shouts of foul play.

It appears to me that you think the mod chat should be public. I disagree with this type of thing. That would cause even MORE drama, let alone the mods effectively being able to discuss without feeling like they're under a magnifying glass all the time, that would suck.

You also have to realize that the mods are human (as stated before by someone else) they have lives outside of DGN (I know, shock!). Sometimes they're not on the board every day. I don't blame them. I've also noticed that sometimes this thing doesn't tell me when I have a new PM, I just go to that area, and sometimes see a new topic. You should re-PM them and ask them.. Hey! did you get your last PM, I am waiting on an answer. I'm sure that will prompt them to look at said PM and promptly respond, even with a "Just a minute, will be right with you, we're discussing it" type of thing. (hopefully the mods are listening and agreeing, and will someone PM the poor man back!?!?! hehe).

Actually HunHee I have never in my life asked a Mod anything about anybody else, and they can confirm this.

I have asked a Mod to explain themselves privately. Thats about the gist of it.

I brought up NOYFB because ti seems to be a sensitive subject amng some members - and I'll add that I can see where asking a quetion about somebody else will just continue the disruption....I can see that. No one has ever told me NOYFB - but I have not asked. However - I still beleive that that sort of a reply raises the emotional level of the content at hand.....especially coming form a position of authority. It can be completly disrespectful and dismissive. All Im doing with this particular subject (NOYFB) is takign a look at it.

does it help or hurt? thats up to y'all to decide...

[Steven]

I don't know, I would guess that would depend on the question being asked. If you're asking them if they're coming over to dinner, I can imagine that they'd be glad to answer your questions, but if you're asking if someone else got the same type of warning (which I'm just GUESSING that was what you asked, could be wrong, but that's what I would have done), I can understand why you got a NOYFB response, because honestly it is NOYFB. I think repremands should be kept private, because I'm guessing some people may feel slightly embarassed about being reprimanded, and the mods trying to save any shouts of foul play.

It appears to me that you think the mod chat should be public. I disagree with this type of thing. That would cause even MORE drama, let alone the mods effectively being able to discuss without feeling like they're under a magnifying glass all the time, that would suck.

You also have to realize that the mods are human (as stated before by someone else) they have lives outside of DGN (I know, shock!). Sometimes they're not on the board every day. I don't blame them. I've also noticed that sometimes this thing doesn't tell me when I have a new PM, I just go to that area, and sometimes see a new topic. You should re-PM them and ask them.. Hey! did you get your last PM, I am waiting on an answer. I'm sure that will prompt them to look at said PM and promptly respond, even with a "Just a minute, will be right with you, we're discussing it" type of thing. (hopefully the mods are listening and agreeing, and will someone PM the poor man back!?!?! hehe).

forgot to add: I did make repeat efforts to the mod - bot thru DGN and privately.

im not trying to rake him over the coals and what I said was NOYFB (ok - joke????)

im simply making note of the fact that yews as youdescribed Mods are humans too,......and all of this creeps into the human elelment...and probably more tiems than not there is a dual fueling of the issue at hand.

in my case - one of the reasons for my pressing forward was a lack of a response.

I dont know if that was right or wrong - I just know these were some fo the ingredients.

[Steven]

I don't think, Steven, that you're going to get the answers you're looking for.

Why do I think so? Because I don't think anyone has a set answer.

I was a mod once, right? And one of the things I used to try to do was keep an eye out for potential trouble, and alert my fellow staff members to keep a heads-up and maybe privately message people who were getting a bit carefree with the "play nice" rules. I also moved a few "hot" threads into staff only areas for troubleshooting.

I got called a drama queen, flamed, and told I was taking things too personally and seriously.

Now, it's standard practice for mods to head-off potential trouble by privately messaging people for toeing the "play nice" line, to move threads or delete them altogether, and to outright edit posts.

There's no pat answer because interpretation of the rules and how to enforce them constantly changes here.

I don't think you're inciting drama. I think people who use that term, frankly, are lightweights who can't handle disagreement, conflict & confrontation.

No, I think you're basically asking for a hardcore definition of rules and practices. And I don't think you're going to get it, no matter how many posts you make asking for it.

My advice? Let's just say I've been happier here since I basically decided that, in the grand scheme of things, DGN is paltry. Yes, I enjoy being here. Damned good conversation on an awesome range of topics. But homelife, my marriage, my family, and pursuits other than DGN in general are waaaaaaaaaaaay more worth getting panties bunched about.

It's like I tell my sister, when my mother does one of the thousand things she does that can seriously irk a person. "You know she's going to do that, so why don't you learn to expect it, look past it when it happens and get some peace from the fact that you can't change it." Yet, as intelligent as she is, my sister will get teed off at something my mother has done for decades as if it's new every time.

Learn to expect certain things here, and either shrug it off when it happens, or don't encourage it.

I know - sounds like a lame-ass cop-out. But, dude, priorities, ya know? Pick a more worthy battle.

Actually babe Im very much starting to agree with you.

I know I'll not get a definitive answer, I knew that allready....but I wanted to raise these topics, I felt that was healthy for us all, especially in light of so many private messages Ive gotten both here and in my yahoo. What I truly wanted to see was open interaction and a possible....possible moderator ear. Thats it.

people have many unspoken concerns and frustrations. I tried to provide a possible vehicle to carry some of that forward into a public forum, and theres nothing else I can do. But Im not leading a rebellion.

I took personally (very) some of the things that happened here. I thought they were premature and unbalanced and biased.

so I fought back.....some people think I went too far and thats ok, I get that.

the point is that I wanted to finish what I started. I needed to. thats me, thats the kind of man I am. If I wasent....none of the things Ive ever said in here would carry an weight, because theyd just be words...and anybody can do that.

I admire you very much Camille.

Steven

[saechalyn]

My advice? Let's just say I've been happier here since I basically decided that, in the grand scheme of things, DGN is paltry. Yes, I enjoy being here. Damned good conversation on an awesome range of topics. But homelife, my marriage, my family, and pursuits other than DGN in general are waaaaaaaaaaaay more worth getting panties bunched about.

Learn to expect certain things here, and either shrug it off when it happens, or don't encourage it.

I know - sounds like a lame-ass cop-out. But, dude, priorities, ya know? Pick a more worthy battle.

I don't think it's a cop-out at all. I have adopted much the same stance. I actually do enjoy lively political debate but I have long since learned that a message board is not the best place for me to engage in such debate. So I may throw in my two cents here and there but overall I stay out of things. If something on dgn starts to actually bother me I know it's time to hit the little red "x" and go play outside or something.

[Scary Guy]

I am beginning to wonder if I have a 7 day preapproval on some of these threads and I don't even know why. Nothing was ever said to me. I just never see the thread appear at all.

I thought that of mine too, then I realized it's just that no one cares about the crap I post.

Someone also mentioned that the mod boards should be publicly viewable. I tend to agree if only for my own curiosity of what's being said about me. They made me a mod back on DCC back in the day (the tech forum, what else lol) and I went through every post in that forum with a notepad. People I thought were friends weren't so I wrote them off for being useless tools.

To me it's funny how everyone here takes this crap seriously. It's just a forum, it's not real life and the mods aren't cops. At worst you just get banned and shunned by the community on here and to be blunt people who take issue with that need to go out of the house and get real lives.

The two exceptions here that I can think of are rural areas where there isn't anything else to do (in which case go find another forum to play on (only after being banned of course)) and bike clubs where banned off the forum would probably mean probation or loss of membership. At that point the club wants you dead and you should get out of town.

I also think it's funny how there are jr and sr mod forums. Like the things talked about in the sr forum are that much more secret and important than the jr forum. Seems kind of pointless to me but then again I'm not running the place, nor should I invest time in caring.

I like posting here, that's why I keep coming back. But I've left twice over other reasons and it wouldn't be the end of the world if it did stop.

I will say that the mod/admin who keeps deleting specific replies of mine is quite annoying also.

[Daniel]

Well.

Let me just say that I agree with Steven's original thought in that if you aren't free to discuss things as you will, you can't really say anything at all. So, Steven, while we seem to always disagree, we certainly do not here and I don't think anything you have done should be considered inappropriate. I see the merit in a "play nice" system, and I have no concrete recommendations (nor does anyone who matters care to hear them if I did) on how to moderate the board. But, the simple fact is, and I've seen it happen here dozens of times: People who engage in interesting and intriguing topics that they feel passionate about do not feel welcome here (or at least, don't feel comfortable posting), and they just leave. What you're left with is a board full of next-to-meaningless chit chat and embarrassing flirtation. It seems the goal here is always quantity over quality, and that's all that matters.

Which begs the question of why I come back here at all. Because I'm interested in the Gothic subculture, and how it exists in Detroit. And while I don't think this forum represents either (the ratio of people claiming to not be Goth that do not live anywhere near Detroit is staggering), it is the closest thing there is. I like a number of people here, and I simply am not terribly invested in this place. I've disappeared for years at a time because I find it annoying to have to tip-toe around with what I post. But, whatever. I'm sure I'll come and go many more times in the future.

[Hellion]

All I know is that I had left a couple of times last year,and did not have a set time to return I had other issues to deal with,and IMO this board really went to heck last year.

[know_buddy_kares]

I always laughed about the Jr and Sr forums too. Since there's like only 2 sr mods, they could just cover the bullshit on yahoo messenger with offlines and such. Hell, if there's 3 or more someday, yahoo has a confrence option, and the usual offlines to everyone in your custom set group on your list. too easy honestly. And I think that some things the mods may say in the forum really don't need to be shown to everyone. For if there's drama going on between two people, if you're not involved in the drama, then it really is none of your FUCKING business. I don't want people knowing what the hell is going on between me and other members on this board if i don't know them or like them, and personally, i don't wanna know what's going on in anyone else's life. Getting that nosy is honestly pathetic, why do you give a shit?!?! (general question to anyone who is nosy) Is it going to effect your job, your family, your irl friends? No? THEN WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO ON HERE???

Like scary guy said, it's just a fucking forum. If you make that big of a deal out of this place then you need an anvil falling on your computer, and a swift kick in your ass into the wonderful out doors and REAL LIFE. Live it.. it's a good thing sometimes.

[Steven]

Well.

Let me just say that I agree with Steven's original thought in that if you aren't free to discuss things as you will, you can't really say anything at all. So, Steven, while we seem to always disagree, we certainly do not here and I don't think anything you have done should be considered inappropriate.

Holy

Freakin

Moly