Morality In The Desicion

[Homicidalheathen]

I am trying deparatly to keep an open mind here. God knows I nor no one is perfect. But without getting into religeon to much lets just say......I am pagan, I have these certain issues that I take stance with regarding things people may do thus, and something are NOT ok to me.

A friend told me recently about something they did a long time ago. It bothers me, said person says it won't happen again......

Does it matter what the thing is if its something allot of people may be ok with, some not ok with but do it anyway......and others hate.....?

Should I even let the typical standards of common modern societys morals effect how I feel?

What if said person does it again.......and I just never find out.....does it make a difference?

Cause I see this person differently now and do not have as much respect for them and am not as quick to want to hang out.

[Necromanta]

People shouldn't judge you for what you believe in.

If you're a good person.. and they like you for who you are.. there is no reason to worry.

If they are judgemental because you are pagan.. then they aren't worth it.

Just be yourself.

It's all you can be. =]

Let them do the same.. it really works out better in friendships.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, you are judging this person over something they did, once... years ago...

I think it really depends on what the person did. Maybe you are being too judgemental by trying to apply your rules of conduct one someone else.

I mean... if you want people to accept you for what you are and what you beleive.. then you have to do the same for them.

No real details makes it hard.

[Kit Kat P]

was it something illegal (amend: a logical law)? is it something that violates even the basic moral stance?

If yes then your right to be bothered

If no, then you might want to look what exactly it is that, is it the action or that you never thought that that person could do that.

Like Gaf said, it's hard to tell w/o details

[Scary Guy]

If it bothers you that much then write them off and be done with it or confront them with how you feel and go from there.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I am trying deparatly to keep an open mind here. God knows I nor no one is perfect. But without getting into religeon to much lets just say......I am pagan, I have these certain issues that I take stance with regarding things people may do thus, and something are NOT ok to me.

A friend told me recently about something they did a long time ago. It bothers me, said person says it won't happen again......

Does it matter what the thing is if its something allot of people may be ok with, some not ok with but do it anyway......and others hate.....?

Should I even let the typical standards of common modern societys morals effect how I feel?

What if said person does it again.......and I just never find out.....does it make a difference?

Cause I see this person differently now and do not have as much respect for them and am not as quick to want to hang out.

This like never happens, but I'm with Scary Guy on this. If you have lost respect for the person, and are less inclined to hang out with them now, why would you force yourself to continue? It doesn't matter if other people are okay with what this person did. YOU aren't okay with it.

And the reason there are common morals is because at some level, the majority of people agree on a similar set of standards. So, if what this person did broke even common morals (don't steal, don't prey on the weak, don't lie) maybe they aren't the sort of person you want in your life anyway.

[Steven]

yes she's judging, so what?

we ALL judge folks, man that is a $20.00 word around here....your about to read this and judge me...so what? All a judgment is is an assessment, let's be real.....

Heathen, if you've lost respect.....then thats going to creep into your relationship. I dont care what people state on paper about that - its reality, because respect is rather critical in any thriving relationship no? Women if you dont respect your man, honestly, can you stay in love? Hell no. Same thing goes for freindships....if the respect is not there, the payoff for maintaining that relationship is??????

I personally, do not hang with people that I cannot respect.

notice that I used the word cannot as opposed to DO not.

cannot is indicitive of an effort made on my part to bridge that gap - BUT - if something prevents that from happening, then no I dont pursue the relationship. For example I've had homies that used to constantly fuck around on their wives, they thought they were bad asses, I thought they were assholes. Plus, they had kids, and it was not an open relationship. I stopped hanging with them and hooking up at the bar with them because they were selfish pricks and I dont hang with selfish pricks.

by the way they felt judged by me.....

In fairness.....I have a past of my own. There are plenty of thigns in there for people to be uncomfortable with, even though that was many years ago, and because of that Ive been on the receiving end of what Heathen is talking about.

Comes with the territory though, you own what youve done and hope for the best.

[Jadis]

I think you should do what is comfortable for you. Don't put yourself in a position where you may have to be fake with someone. If you can't respect a person or trust a person then you really can't have any healthy relationship with that person.

Good luck sweetie.

[Crazed Vampyress]

I am trying deparatly to keep an open mind here. God knows I nor no one is perfect. But without getting into religeon to much lets just say......I am pagan, I have these certain issues that I take stance with regarding things people may do thus, and something are NOT ok to me.

A friend told me recently about something they did a long time ago. It bothers me, said person says it won't happen again......

Does it matter what the thing is if its something allot of people may be ok with, some not ok with but do it anyway......and others hate.....?

Should I even let the typical standards of common modern societys morals effect how I feel?

What if said person does it again.......and I just never find out.....does it make a difference?

Cause I see this person differently now and do not have as much respect for them and am not as quick to want to hang out.

you choose what morals (whether religion-based or otherwise) you are going to live by. This is completely your choice. if something someone did bothers you based on what youve chosen to think is right or wrong, well i dont think theres much you can do about that.

does it matter if a lot of others are okay with it? well you're not 'a lot of others' so that should have no bearing on your opinon.

should you let typical standards effect how you feel? thats up to you. again, we're to making your own personal choice.

if they do it again? again, no one else can tell you how you should feel. its up to you. what if they did it again and you did find out? would the set of morals youve assigned yourself allow you to hang out freely with this person again? Do you want to hang out with them despite this? are you violating your own belief of right and wrong by remaining friends? does it matter if you are?

or... what if you look at it this way? are you sure your sense of right and wrong is correct for you? are you sure that you really are looking differently at this person? do you need to sit down and look differently at yourself? how do you feel about the fact youre having such a harsh reaction to something that happened in someones past? how would you feel if the tables were turned and it was their beliefs/morals looking at you and your past?

[Homicidalheathen]

Ok well its mild animal abuse even though the cat scratched him I just hate that. Anger management issues and stuff. He threw it against a wall......but at the time, (this was a few years ago) he was mad at his g/f and he admits it had more to do with that.

I have an abused cat that USED to scratch and bite.......she is ok now. She got better with love, not more abuse. I know lots of people hate cats and would have done the same thing.......but I despise animal abuse.

[Steven]

Ok well its mild animal abuse even though the cat scratched him I just hate that. Anger management issues and stuff. He threw it against a wall......but at the time, (this was a few years ago) he was mad at his g/f and he admits it had more to do with that.

I have an abused cat that USED to scratch and bite.......she is ok now. She got better with love, not more abuse. I know lots of people hate cats and would have done the same thing.......but I despise animal abuse.

So do I (despise it).

and yet again, i eat meat.

I wear leather.

I'd shoot Bambi and cook her in garlic. But I'd take no pleasure in creating any creature's discomfort just to be cruel. you have to draw the line wherever you need to.

[Fierce Critter]

<--- long exhale

I'm the big animal lover, right? Would take in all the stray cats in the world if I could?

And my husband used to run a PETA-like animal rights group, complete with signs & protests.

And I have a couple moments of animal abuse in my past that I'm NOT proud of, that make me sick to my stomach remembering them, and that I wish just weren't there. I don't care that I was a child when I did them - it's something I hate about my past.

And Jon has, on a couple occasions, had his own moments of misplaced, inappropriate treatment of animals. And I was horrified. And I gave him absolute holy hell. And he hated himself afterwards.

But he's on medication now. And he doesn't ever want to feel that shame or treat an animal like that again.

I don't hold this against him. He doesn't hold mine against me. We both know it's unacceptable, and we both know it's outside our general nature. We have taken steps to make sure that sort of thing never happens again (anger management counseling, mood-evening medication, etc).

There are also things Jon did in the past that were on my list of things I "never wanted to be associated with". But over time, he learned the error of his ways, and regrets those things. He got older, and wiser, and realized where I was coming from was the way he came to think, too.

Has he expressed regret, shame, and a willingness to own his mistake? Has he taken steps to ensure this sort of behavior will not happen again? Throwing an animal against a wall isn't cool - period. But if you can be, for the most part, sure it's something he never wants to do again and is taking honest action to prevent, then I think he deserves a 2nd chance.

If a person is a friend, but has some kind of moral defect that doesn't make them a total piece of trash but just mars them a bit, consider what circumstances you can and can't associate with them. Set limits to what you'll put up with and stick to them. Ask them outright to respect your difference of opinion/behavior. If they can deal with that, then proceed.

[Sybil]

On the topic of "Judgement" first.

We are all people. None of us possess the "power" to judge a person's soul.

Each of us are a soul with a super sweet, perfectly crafted, fleshy shell.

I cant "rise up" and judge "what I cannot see" == souls.

*************************************************

Each of us, if "armed with truth" are able to "judge" the actions of another person.

Right. Or. Wrong.

*************************************************

Having said that...

Poor Kitty.

Not cool to toss around little animals.

Having said THAT..

My CONFESSION is, I am 29 now. When I was about 18 I did a similar thing to a cat that attacked my face. Was going to kill it with my bare hands and threw it instead.

:(

TOTALLY had anger issues and exercised the only smidge of self control that I could at the time.

(this cat was also KNOWN for attacking people that had their backs turned to it.. she attacked all the time. she had been a stray that was taken into a home. she was basically wild and miserable. I suggested a few times, because her behavior didnt really ever "get better", that maybe she should be "put down" because you couldnt trust her around anyone. And if she were just "let go" the chance that she would attack a person once allowed to "roam" again was pretty high. She had a NASTY way about her. And I know my reaction was wrong but in my mind it was MY face or the cat's ass.)

[Sybil]

...oh...

And I CURRENTLY have 2 cats.

They WERE strays.

They are now my house cats.

TOTALLY sweet and cute.

Have NEVER attacked anyone or anything.

They are good with small children (always supervised with kids.. ALWAYS)

Perfect kitties... and with little "training"...

Just like all people are a bit different.. all cats are too...

[hunhee]

Hey did you know that one of the top ten traits of a serial killer is prior history of animal abuse?

I don't know how anyone could vindictively abuse an animal. If it were in self defense, like in Sybil's case, I could understand that. There's a thing called self preservation.

But animal abuse can lie in so many forms. Like Steven said, we do wear leather, and we do eat meat, and I do fish, and I for some reason have almost no problems filleting them, now if I had to slaughter my own cow or pig I think I could become a vegetarian. But since I see my meat in parts, and I disassociate the term meat with flesh, I somehow justify eating it.

It's your call HH, if you don't feel comfortable around the person, you have to either write them off, or confront them. Apparently it's bothering you way more than makes you comfortable, is there any more valid reason to keep this person in your life? (that's the question you've gotta ask yourself)

[Sybil]

hahahaha!!!

Like Hunhee said.. if I had to slaughter my own cow or pig I might become a vegetarian!!!

hahahahaha

When I was .. I think 9.. I went to Wyoming to visit my dad's sis..

I saw a cow slaughtered..

hahahaha At 9, I basically became a vegan. Until a few years ago.

The sight of all that blood at a young-ish age...

It was weird.. I didnt know that an animal was a hamburger?! May sound weird to some, but I didnt know that a cow became a hamburger. And I didnt know what it went thru to get to its "hamburger state"..

********************************************

Anyway all that stuff aside...

I dont think its cool to ON PURPOSE, FOR NO REASON, be unkind to anything!

Now.... with THAT said...

Action causes reaction.

Do you really think, HHeathen, that your friend is an abuser, or that he REACTED and then felt bad after?!

If he felt bad after, then he rates high in MY book.

EVERYONE fucks up.

EVERYONE.

The "I am sorry" people, are the ones that I love being around!!

<3:)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Anyway all that stuff aside...

I dont think its cool to ON PURPOSE, FOR NO REASON, be unkind to anything!

Now.... with THAT said...

Action causes reaction.

Do you really think, HHeathen, that your friend is an abuser, or that he REACTED and then felt bad after?!

If he felt bad after, then he rates high in MY book.

EVERYONE fucks up.

EVERYONE.

The "I am sorry" people, are the ones that I love being around!!

<3:)

Rock on!

[Steven]

Hey did you know that one of the top ten traits of a serial killer is prior history of animal abuse?

I don't know how anyone could vindictively abuse an animal. If it were in self defense, like in Sybil's case, I could understand that. There's a thing called self preservation.

But animal abuse can lie in so many forms. Like Steven said, we do wear leather, and we do eat meat, and I do fish, and I for some reason have almost no problems filleting them, now if I had to slaughter my own cow or pig I think I could become a vegetarian. But since I see my meat in parts, and I disassociate the term meat with flesh, I somehow justify eating it.

It's your call HH, if you don't feel comfortable around the person, you have to either write them off, or confront them. Apparently it's bothering you way more than makes you comfortable, is there any more valid reason to keep this person in your life? (that's the question you've gotta ask yourself)

I justify eating it cause it tastes good with A1 on it.

sad but true.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

If you want me to stop eating animals someone has to stop making them out of food.

Veggies are what food eats.

[Sybil]

If you want me to stop eating animals someone has to stop making them out of food.

Veggies are what food eats.

*GASPS*

When I was 21 I lived in Hamtramck.

One of my roommates brought home a baby stray cat.

We collectively named it "Food"..

hahahaha

..reason being, it liked to hang out on top of the Python's cage.

[hunhee]

I justify eating it cause it tastes good with A1 on it.

sad but true.

lol me too.. if it weren't meant to be eaten, why does it taste so damn gooooooooooooood?

[Vivian]

I am trying deparatly to keep an open mind here. God knows I nor no one is perfect. But without getting into religeon to much lets just say......I am pagan, I have these certain issues that I take stance with regarding things people may do thus, and something are NOT ok to me.

A friend told me recently about something they did a long time ago. It bothers me, said person says it won't happen again......

Does it matter what the thing is if its something allot of people may be ok with, some not ok with but do it anyway......and others hate.....?

Should I even let the typical standards of common modern societys morals effect how I feel?

What if said person does it again.......and I just never find out.....does it make a difference?

Cause I see this person differently now and do not have as much respect for them and am not as quick to want to hang out.

Without knowing the whole story, this is the best I can give you.

We pick who we want to hang out with. Its a subconcious thing. We hang out with those we have things in common and those who we don't but they make our lives interesting. If this thing your friend did, makes you look at them in a different light, then maybe you've out grown them? It takes years to make a solid friendship. In my mind, a friend is someone you meet and then grow with. You know all their secrets and they know yours. You can look at them and not judge them for what they've done. Just like they won't judge you for what you've done. No one is perfect. We all make mistakes, but some are more serious then others. It's really up to you to determine if its something that will ruin a friendship. (that usually falls into betrayal, going against your morals, harming others, stealing from others etc.) If you don't trust them, then it isn't a relationship. (that includes friendship)

No one can tell you what you should do, only you can figure that out. The best we can do is offer some advice and tell you how the cards "could" fall. Good luck in your problem.

[Vivian]

Ok well its mild animal abuse even though the cat scratched him I just hate that. Anger management issues and stuff. He threw it against a wall......but at the time, (this was a few years ago) he was mad at his g/f and he admits it had more to do with that.

I have an abused cat that USED to scratch and bite.......she is ok now. She got better with love, not more abuse. I know lots of people hate cats and would have done the same thing.......but I despise animal abuse.

OOOOHHHHHH.. okay. *I should probably read the WHOLE thread before replying, duh*.. That sounds oddly familiar. I was with a guy who threw a cat away from him, but it wasn't from scratching. It was from the cat laying on his stomach when we were trying to sleep and meowing in his face that did it.

I can't stand animal abuse like that as well. That is what ultimately broke us up. If someone could harm a helpless animal, what kind of person are they? What if they ever took their rage and turned it to us? Not a pretty sight.

I wouldn't hang out with this person, but I would tell them why. And give some good strong solid reasons for it too. Good luck!

[Homicidalheathen]

I brought this up in a few different groups and it seems cat abuse is not only common, but more excepted than say, dog abuse.

my cat almost bit him the other day heh

[Fierce Critter]

it seems cat abuse is not only common, but more excepted than say, dog abuse.

I believe this to be true.

Most people who I ask for an absolute reason why they hate/don't like cats answer that "they're so damned independent" or something similar.

Humans seem to value that which they can lord over. Dogs are more easily cowed, and more likely to still "love" those that beat or otherwise abuse them, because at least some kind of attention is being paid them.

Cats are more likely to do their damndest to get away from negative treatment. People hate that. I personally love an independent animal. Because when they decide to come to me for some attention, it's all the more special.

It makes me sick what some people think is o.k. to do to animals. In my perfect society, the punishment for malicious, intentional animal abuse is to have the same thing done to the perpetrator. I so wanted this to be done to the asshole(s) I've read/heard about to tied a dog to the bumper of the car and forced the dog(s) to run until exhausted to the point of giving up and being dragged to death. PLEASE - let me tie said asshole(s) to the bumper of my car?