I Know I Asked This Before But..

[pomba gira]

Ditto about the insurance companies. When my mom was little there were no insurance companies for health care....PERIOD. You would go to the doctor, pay a one time LOW fee for health care (low because you don't have the variables of the doctors who can get away with charging the insurance companies 40 dollars for an aspirin applied to your bill) and then you'd be on your way and on with life. Except for the people who couldn't afford that low fee, who generally became mortality/morbidity statistics.

Nobody should be medicated for mental illness...unless they actually have one.

Depression is not a mental illness...it's an emotion. It's an emotion that we're supposed to FEEL, that's why it happens. It's called build a bridge, cry a nice babbling brook underneath it, light a joint, eat some Ben 'n' Jerry's, say "I'm better than this fucking weakness" and then get the hell over it.

I do understand that some people are chronically depressed...but I also understand that MOST people on anti-depressants are just normal people who get sad here and there just as you SHOULD.

That's a typical statement of the kind usually made by someone who has never suffered from clinical depression (or been close to someone who has). Clinical depression is not a matter of being sad or down over life situations, it is a matter of your brain chemistry being screwed up. I cannot control my serotonin levels anymore than my stepdad can control his insulin levels, but no one is calling him "weak" for using insulin every day now are they? IT'S THE SAME THING. I know Critter already addressed this point, but dammit, people just don't seem to get it. That whole "weakness" stigma infuriates me because it's a MAJOR reason why so many people are out there self-medicating for their depression (like I did for YEARS- say what you will about "recreational drugs", but heroin was prolly the only thing that kept me from offing myself through most of my 20s & 30s) instead of getting real, effective help.

And for the record, the typical person who gets medicated for "here and there" sadness or transient depression caused by life situations, is much more likely to be prescribed anxiolytics (i.e. benzodiazepines) than antidepressants (i.e. SSRIs or MAOIs). Most modern antidepressants wouldn't even be terribly effective against short-term anxiety or situationally-based depression.

oh yeah, sertraline (Zoloft) isn't an "anxiety" drug, it's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor- in other words it acts directly on the brain chemicals directly responsible for depression.

[torn asunder]

That's a typical statement of the kind usually made by someone who has never suffered from clinical depression (or been close to someone who has). Clinical depression is not a matter of being sad or down over life situations, it is a matter of your brain chemistry being screwed up. I cannot control my serotonin levels anymore than my stepdad can control his insulin levels, but no one is calling him "weak" for using insulin every day now are they? IT'S THE SAME THING. I know Critter already addressed this point, but dammit, people just don't seem to get it. That whole "weakness" stigma infuriates me because it's a MAJOR reason why so many people are out there self-medicating for their depression (like I did for YEARS- say what you will about "recreational drugs", but heroin was prolly the only thing that kept me from offing myself through most of my 20s & 30s) instead of getting real, effective help.

it's been discussed that the chemical imbalances are caused by the mentally depressive attitudes people carry about with them. and yes, in my opinion and from what i've read, one can control their brain chemistry through active methods, such as exercise, and even what some would call "fake it 'til you make it" attitudes - hell, even forcing your face to smile can change one's mental state, albeit for a short time.

i was diagnosed as having clinical depression, with the condition having existed for several years. i went to a therapist, and he briefly tried to medicate me. i lasted less than three weeks on the meds, because even though i was depressed, i knew that i wasn't feeling right on them. (i still continue the therapy sessions, although now on an "as needed" basis) personally, i feel that any outside chemical manipulation is stupid (unless there was some kind of physical trauma/disease underlying) the mind is a virtual pharmacy unto itself, capable of manufacturing any drug you can be given, and wholly naturally. i firmly believe depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, add, schizphrenia can and should be addressed froma mental standpoint, as i believe they all stem from life experiences, (again, barring physical trauma/disease) and how you, personally, have processed those experiences. it's been shown that laughter can change a person's brain chemistry (if memory serves) and that people can actively pursue things like this, in order to affect change in themselves.

and yes, i've heard the argument that people who are depressed don't have the motivation to do things to change themselves - well guess what!? that comes down to personal responibility, and people wanting to blame everyone but themselves, then wanting a quick-fix through medication. it's all in your mind, and you can change it yourself!

[Destroit]

it's been discussed that the chemical imbalances are caused by the mentally depressive attitudes people carry about with them. and yes, in my opinion and from what i've read, one can control their brain chemistry through active methods, such as exercise, and even what some would call "fake it 'til you make it" attitudes - hell, even forcing your face to smile can change one's mental state, albeit for a short time.

i was diagnosed as having clinical depression, with the condition having existed for several years. i went to a therapist, and he briefly tried to medicate me. i lasted less than three weeks on the meds, because even though i was depressed, i knew that i wasn't feeling right on them. (i still continue the therapy sessions, although now on an "as needed" basis) personally, i feel that any outside chemical manipulation is stupid (unless there was some kind of physical trauma/disease underlying) the mind is a virtual pharmacy unto itself, capable of manufacturing any drug you can be given, and wholly naturally. i firmly believe depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, add, schizphrenia can and should be addressed froma mental standpoint, as i believe they all stem from life experiences, (again, barring physical trauma/disease) and how you, personally, have processed those experiences. it's been shown that laughter can change a person's brain chemistry (if memory serves) and that people can actively pursue things like this, in order to affect change in themselves.

and yes, i've heard the argument that people who are depressed don't have the motivation to do things to change themselves - well guess what!? that comes down to personal responibility, and people wanting to blame everyone but themselves, then wanting a quick-fix through medication. it's all in your mind, and you can change it yourself!

Wow, I so very much agree. I've never really heard anyone put it that sort of perspective, but it's something I kinda theorized on for awhile. I've even heard on the news also that some simple environmental things can cause chemical imbalanes that lead to depression, like your diet for instance.

[Onyx]

personally, i feel that any outside chemical manipulation is stupid (unless there was some kind of physical trauma/disease underlying) the mind is a virtual pharmacy unto itself, capable of manufacturing any drug you can be given, and wholly naturally. i firmly believe depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, add, schizphrenia can and should be addressed froma mental standpoint, as i believe they all stem from life experiences, (again, barring physical trauma/disease) and how you, personally, have processed those experiences. it's been shown that laughter can change a person's brain chemistry (if memory serves) and that people can actively pursue things like this, in order to affect change in themselves.

and yes, i've heard the argument that people who are depressed don't have the motivation to do things to change themselves - well guess what!? that comes down to personal responibility, and people wanting to blame everyone but themselves, then wanting a quick-fix through medication. it's all in your mind, and you can change it yourself!

Wow. Schizophrenia? That's a pretty bold statement. Sounds a little dangerous to treat that in that way.

I've never heard of a person diagnosed with severe schizophrenia being functional at all without medication.

[Winter Steele]

YES

one cousin, one aunt - both medicated and breifly institutionalized for schizophrenia

my wife was also on meds for a couple of years for panic anxiety disorder

and Me - I self medicated for many years with every combination of street and pharmecutical drugs I could deal or steal.

obviously I was being rather general though Onyx - with what I posted. I do acknowledge that there are circumstances that require medical assistance, I do get it. But I also acknowledge social trends and our widespread lack of coping skills as a society, and that is what concerns me. I spent many years getting high because I couldent deal with me and what I inherited, so i didint. Once I started gettign into mentoring relationships and entering into differeing forms of accounbtability, I stopped getting high. i didint 12 step - I dealt with my demons. That whole schpiel about addicition being a disease.....its propoganda in my opinion, and it sets you up for future failure because you take on a PERMANENT identity of always being in remission, but always being an addict. Thats not healing, its a fear based trigger device. Thats like telling a cancer survivor that they will always be full of cancer. Or a rape victim they will always be a victim.

in the case of my aunt and cousin - I know why they went nuts - I know their secrets and the family secrets - their childhoods were more heinous than mine. But they never dealt with it and eventually it dealt them. I watched them start to change when I was in my mid teens and they we in their middle aged stages of life.

What she said, Yes I also self - Medicated with no results other then hang overs, withdrawals, and the adolescent Psyche WARD my step witches Idea. Dad just went along with it PW I guess or more afraid to be alone.

I would like to have my own practice as a PA and offer alternative meds and pharmaceutical for those who need it . I have Manic Depression Type 2 and have stared taking fish oil and it really works better than my Paxil and benedryl at night to sleep. I also talk to my friends and a psyche once a month.

[Fierce Critter]

Lots of stuff

and yes, i've heard the argument that people who are depressed don't have the motivation to do things to change themselves - well guess what!? that comes down to personal responibility, and people wanting to blame everyone but themselves, then wanting a quick-fix through medication. it's all in your mind, and you can change it yourself!

It's really great that you are able to fix yourself the way you say. And that others might be able to as well.

But I don't think you know how incredibly frustrating & hurtful this sort of attitude really is to those of us who went from being exceptionally active, motivated people to being immobile depressives.

"Wanting to blame everyone but themselves."

Umm... I never, ever blamed anyone for my depression. NEVER.

"that comes down to personal responsibility" - I still maintain a great point that Pomba Gira brought up. "Personal responsibility" doesn't make a body automatically create insulin. And it's not going to do anything to fucked-up brain chemistry of other sorts, either.

"wanting a quick fix through medication" - I did my damndest to avoid going on medication. It was NOT my first choice of therapy/recovery from my condition.

I can't help but think, TA, that you use yourself as a pretty narrow example of what depression is, how it can be fixed, and what causes it.

And I still have serious doubts that a person who can totally "cure" themselves of "clinical depression" was correctly diagnosed in the first place.

Talk to anyone who really honestly knew me before, during, and after depression. They'd find it ludicrous to even suggest any of the claims you made above would apply to me. I personally find it offensive, but I already know how you feel about "offense," so it's not something you'd find as a problem/consideration.

[torn asunder]

"Wanting to blame everyone but themselves."

Umm... I never, ever blamed anyone for my depression. NEVER.

i should have said, "everyone/everything"...

"that comes down to personal responsibility" - I still maintain a great point that Pomba Gira brought up. "Personal responsibility" doesn't make a body automatically create insulin. And it's not going to do anything to fucked-up brain chemistry of other sorts, either.

if you'd actually read my post, you would have noted the comment i amde regarding "physical" issues, not being applicable. maybe you should read it again...

"wanting a quick fix through medication" - I did my damndest to avoid going on medication. It was NOT my first choice of therapy/recovery from my condition.

I can't help but think, TA, that you use yourself as a pretty narrow example of what depression is, how it can be fixed, and what causes it.

and i can't help but think that you're now doing the same thing, only with yourself as the example...

And I still have serious doubts that a person who can totally "cure" themselves of "clinical depression" was correctly diagnosed in the first place.

and now, you're dismissing my experience/conditions, , because - why? you don't believe people can help themselves? you think that because i was able to help myself, through therapy, that my problems must not have really been that serious? that's pretty judgemental of you. do you know what things i've been through? no, you don't - and yet you dismiss. i can pinpoint the reasons for my depression, and from what i've read on dgn, you have no idea why you're expereincing it. does that mean i should dismiss your feelings? i don't think so, and i haven't done so. your feelings of depression are just as valid as anyone's.

i feel that you're dismissing my opinions because you're unable to enact the same kind of results in your life. that's not my issue, that's yours - i personally feel that if even one person is able to do a thing, everyone can. (again, barring physical issues, as i mentioned in previous posts.) i also, personally, don't feel that anyone currently on medication is fully in control of their own life/mind, and as such, will most likely be unable to do what i'm talking about, because they're under a constant medical/chemical "fog". they're relying on medication to do what their brain should be able to do. i liken this to testosterone therapy - it's great in it's place (physical issues) but if a healthy man undergoes this, his body will eventually shut off his own testosterone production, since it has an outside source. at that point, he becomes dependant on the medication to live, and that's what i'm afraid is happening to entirely too many people now.

Talk to anyone who really honestly knew me before, during, and after depression. They'd find it ludicrous to even suggest any of the claims you made above would apply to me. I personally find it offensive, but I already know how you feel about "offense," so it's not something you'd find as a problem/consideration.

and your offense is your own. i didn't indend any, i was expressing an opinion i feel strongly about. i wasn't insulting, i simply expressed my belief that people are too quick to medicate, when they most likely can heal themselves, with the assistance of a therapist/psychologist/etc...

[know_buddy_kares]

i kinda gotta agree with torn on this, even though i hate the bastard , i do feel that it really is up to people to help themselves. Like a few others on here, I've had my times of no direction and depression.. and i still get waves of it every now and then. Some things are just comming from the inside of me, but most of it had to do with outside influences. I don't try to bring people down with me however I do what I can to work myself out of my funks rather then get hooked up on meds. Some people it's a good thing though, like bi-polar disorder. Yet I always see the drug companies trying to come out with that new "catch all" scheme every month. I really think that this country is a freaking hypocondriac state.

[torn asunder]

i kinda gotta agree with torn on this, even though i hate the bastard ,

eh, who doesn't hate me on this board anymore!?

[Fierce Critter]

i personally feel that if even one person is able to do a thing, everyone can. (again, barring physical issues, as i mentioned in previous posts.) i also, personally, don't feel that anyone currently on medication is fully in control of their own life/mind, and as such, will most likely be unable to do what i'm talking about, because they're under a constant medical/chemical "fog". they're relying on medication to do what their brain should be able to do. i liken this to testosterone therapy - it's great in it's place (physical issues) but if a healthy man undergoes this, his body will eventually shut off his own testosterone production, since it has an outside source. at that point, he becomes dependant on the medication to live, and that's what i'm afraid is happening to entirely too many people now.

"Relying on medication to do what their brain should be able to do. " - exactly. IF the brain is functioning normally on a physical level. And I am maintaining what research into the condition has discovered - that true, clinical depression is a physical condition caused by the brain's recepters & receivers malfunctioning.

The only "physical" condition you allow for is trauma/disease. You totally do not include the possibility that the brain/body itself is malfunctioning in ways likened to diabetes, hypo/hyperthyroidism, etc.

The only thing I ever "blamed" for my depression was a breakdown of natural, physical processes. You're partially right in that the actual bottom-line "cause" of my deterioration into a severe, clinical depressive hasn't been completely identified, though it seems to have been more than likely our move out of state. The condition of true, clinical depression is a pysical/chemical one, but it can be exacerbated by mental/emotional states that pretty much weaken one's defenses & ability to keep an even-keel of sorts. Only upon getting on the road to recovery can I actually look back at my life prior to a total descent into depressive hell and see signs that I had been suffering from it prior to the "big fall."

I take offense because your statements write-off anyone who can't "cure" themselves as you claim to have done as lazy, totally lacking in personal responsibility & accountability, and weak. Depression was the first thing that ever hit me that I wasn't able to fix without outside help. Therapy, counseling and other means of "fixing" me didn't work - period. Moving back to Michigan and getting back to the things I loved and missed didn't help - I worsened upon returning actually. It took a total descent into near immobilization and the influence of concerned family to get me to finally realize that this was something that I could not fix myself. I sought therapy first, and then upon recommendation of both my therapist and MD, I spent a year trying a lot of different medications until we found the one that worked.

I discussed this thread with my husband yesterday at length. He was nearly infuriated that anyone would have the balls to insinuate or even indirectly accuse me of the sorts of things you said in your post. He knows me. He saw me go from a vibrant, active person to a nearly bedridden recluse. He saw my frustration as self-help didn't work, as therapy alone didn't work, as a half dozen incorrectly prescribed medications didn't do a thing. And he saw the nearly overnight transformation when I was finally put on the correct medication. If that isn't proof of depression as a chemical/physical affliction, I don't know what is.

I'm not in a fog, I'm not "controlled" by the medication I take. It's totally the opposite. It has enabled me to finally REGAIN the control I had before my body went off-kilter. Once the right medication kicked in, only then was I able to start taking control of my condition and take other steps to improve my condition. I do agree with you that if you can take steps and make efforts to re-wire yourself, get yourself moving and get yourself into a proactive mode, you can in many ways help yourself overcome this condition. But without a pharmaceutical jump-start to get things firing correctly in my brain, I was completely and totally unable to do anything, as much as I wanted to. And I desperately, desperately wanted to. I just wasn't in any way, shape or form able to convert "want" into "action."

While you are of the opinion - repeat, opinion - that your testosterone-lacking man example is the way things would happen, I feel differently. I feel it's more of a situation such as a person whose legs have atrophied due to non-use. Work their legs by outside manipulation for a while, until their muscles "remember" how to do what they're supposed to, and the outside manipulation becomes unnecessarry. In the same way, I believe that the medication I am currently taking is helping my malfunctioning brain function correctly, and eventually my brain will "remember" how it's supposed to work, and eventually medication won't be necessary. I have people in my history who have borne out this supposition.

I'm pretty much done with this. I know what's true in my life, and you know what's true in yours. I think it's pretty dismissive, superior, and self-aggrandizing for anyone to assume and insist that their situation is applicable to everyone else. That goes for you and your approach, as it does for mine. Mine wouldn't work for you, and yours wouldn't work for me. And there are all sorts who will fall somewhere in between.

I do hope that anyone who feels they may be suffering from some form of depression would start with therapy & counseling first, and not jump right into medications. There is evidence to suggest, and it's pretty much accepted that there are different forms of depression, some being strictly mental/emotional conditions that therapy would successfully treat, and some being physical that would be helped by correctly prescribed medications.

I just don't want to see anyone bullied into not seeking & obtaining help for themselves.

[pomba gira]

What FC said. ESPECIALLY these two bits:

I'm not in a fog, I'm not "controlled" by the medication I take. It's totally the opposite. It has enabled me to finally REGAIN the control I had before my body went off-kilter. Once the right medication kicked in, only then was I able to start taking control of my condition and take other steps to improve my condition. I do agree with you that if you can take steps and make efforts to re-wire yourself, get yourself moving and get yourself into a proactive mode, you can in many ways help yourself overcome this condition. But without a pharmaceutical jump-start to get things firing correctly in my brain, I was completely and totally unable to do anything, as much as I wanted to. And I desperately, desperately wanted to. I just wasn't in any way, shape or form able to convert "want" into "action."

I do hope that anyone who feels they may be suffering from some form of depression would start with therapy & counseling first, and not jump right into medications. There is evidence to suggest, and it's pretty much accepted that there are different forms of depression, some being strictly mental/emotional conditions that therapy would successfully treat, and some being physical that would be helped by correctly prescribed medications.

I just don't want to see anyone bullied into not seeking & obtaining help for themselves.

One of the main things that kept me from antidepressant therapy for years was the fear that I would just be sedated into oblivion, or that I would somehow not be "me" anymore if I wasn't depressed. The reality couldn't be further from the truth... the Zoloft lets me be my true self, and gives me the chance to reach my true potential... which was never going to happen when it took all my energy just to keep going on a day to day basis.

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. There is no one-size fits all solution whether meds, therapy, cognitive strategies ("fake it till you make it") or whatever. What works for me is a combination of those three approaches... but I don't believe any of them would be entirely effective alone. Zoloft worked well for me right from the start... but this summer I switched to Prozac (county poor folks health plan wouldn't pay for Zoloft) and was dissociated & suicidal within a month. If I had been given Prozac before Zoloft back in the beginning, I might be in the anti-meds camp right now... probably not, having worked in the mental health field and knowing that it can take time to find the right meds and dosage. But the natural tendency when we have a bad experience with anything, is to reject everything in that category from then on. I hate to think of anyone needlessly living the hell of depression because of the stigma of weakness, or because of hearing about others' negative meds experiences.

One last piece of advice for anyone dealing with depression & considering medications: go to an actual mental health care provider, not just your family doc. Someone with extensive, specialized experience in prescribing psych meds is much better able to determine what regimen is most likely to work for an individual. They will also be more alert for early signs of adverse effects. Finally, a mental health professional is more likely to recommend a combination of therapies, rather than just writing a script & sending you on your way.

[torn asunder]

the Zoloft lets me be my true self, and gives me the chance to reach my true potential... which was never going to happen when it took all my energy just to keep going on a day to day basis.

there's no possible way you can know that the zoloft lets youy be your true self - you're on medication, and therefore medically influenced by the drug - it may be what you think you should be or what you want to be, but you can't possibly know that it's your true self - it's you on medication, and that is nowhere near you being your "true self". i know that "feeling like you should feel" is tempting, but it's not in any way true. when you can legitimately feel the way you want, without medication, you'll know who you really are, and not a moment before. until you can face up to who you really are, sans medicine, you'll never really know who you can be. you may feel that you're being who you think you should be, but it's false... take your zoloft, take your pot, take your coke, take your heroine - it's a false impression of your real self, and it will always be. it may keep you stable until you can manage without meds, but in the end, if you want to be free and be yourself, yoiu must be drug-free, in my opinion otherwise, you're hidng from yourself...

(and yes, i'm fully entitled to my opinion - and no , you are not required to agree with it...)

[Steven]

there's no possible way you can know that the zoloft lets youy be your true self - you're on medication, and therefore medically influenced by the drug - it may be what you think you should be or what you want to be, but you can't possibly know that it's your true self - it's you on medication, and that is nowhere near you being your "true self". i know that "feeling like you should feel" is tempting, but it's not in any way true. when you can legitimately feel the way you want, without medication, you'll know who you really are, and not a moment before. until you can face up to who you really are, sans medicine, you'll never really know who you can be. you may feel that you're being who you think you should be, but it's false... take your zoloft, take your pot, take your coke, take your heroine - it's a false impression of your real self, and it will always be. it may keep you stable until you can manage without meds, but in the end, if you want to be free and be yourself, yoiu must be drug-free, in my opinion otherwise, you're hidng from yourself...

(and yes, i'm fully entitled to my opinion - and no , you are not required to agree with it...)

wow.

that was pretty dang ballsy Mike - to post such a potentially divisive statement (among many here in this thread). I'm kinda proud of you, and Im not even talking about this subject of meds pro and con when I say that....I'm simply admiring your willingness to be a grown up here....you take heat expressing an opinion...you take heat being the one outside.....you take heat when you beleive in somethgin passionately enough to post it while knowing your going to be judged by the masses for it.....

[Homicidalheathen]

I just hope he is going to be ok and that when the shit hits the fan AGAIN in life, cause......it will........trust me on this.......will he be ok next time, whats to stop this from happening again?

Life has a way of throwing you curve balls and you gotta bounce back.......

What do you do then, on the meds.....off the meds.....on them again........???

[Steven]

I just hope he is going to be ok and that when the shit hits the fan AGAIN in life, cause......it will........trust me on this.......will he be ok next time, whats to stop this from happening again?

Life has a way of throwing you curve balls and you gotta bounce back.......

What do you do then, on the meds.....off the meds.....on them again........???

I dont know.

my gut tells me that on and off again and on again is a very dangerous lifestyle.

in a nutshell I beleive there are physiological/biological processes that happen to people and that it started with imuunizations, food preservatives, trans fats that are one step away from plastic, and the lowered nutritional and fiber content value of our food overall.

you are what you eat.

we eat chemical poison in America. and we inject heinous shit into our children.

I also think that our brains respond chemically to outside stimulus. and that we can get out of balance and stop producing or begin over producing certain chemicals as a response to our social environments.

I think the epidemics were seeing is a combination of the two.

and that "some" people can get off meds completley.

but some cant. their systems have changed. their biological vessle, has changed.

[Rayne]

I just hope he is going to be ok and that when the shit hits the fan AGAIN in life, cause......it will........trust me on this.......will he be ok next time, whats to stop this from happening again?

Life has a way of throwing you curve balls and you gotta bounce back.......

What do you do then, on the meds.....off the meds.....on them again........???

If your diagnosed with "clinical depression", "manic depression" ... anything other than straight "depression" (which includes a broad scope of disorders ... ie. anxiety, personality, etc.) then you shouldn't be off the meds in the first place. Most people with these things are on meds for the rest of their lives.

Sorry, I had to go through all this with my mother years ago ... and now my daughter.

I was diagnosed with a panic disorder back in August ... so now it's firsthand.

[Steven]

If your diagnosed with "clinical depression", "manic depression" ... anything other than straight "depression" (which includes a broad scope of disorders ... ie. anxiety, personality, etc.) then you shouldn't be off the meds in the first place. Most people with these things are on meds for the rest of their lives.

Sorry, I had to go through all this with my mother years ago ... and now my daughter.

I was diagnosed with a panic disorder back in August ... so now it's firsthand.

Laura was diagnosed with panic disorder also, about 10 years ago - it turned our lives into hell for a couple of years and she was on several different types of anti depresents including paxil.....

she got "off" the meds.

she felt she had to.

I supported that - because I was losing her to the medication, in varying degrees depending on what she was on, and it ALL had side effects.

but she felt like SHE was losing herself too. Laura has a certain shine to her - and the meds took that away. yes she stopped freakign out in the supermarket, but she stopped living too.

so she got off meds with nutrition changes, fish oils, detoxes, vitamin and mineral supplimentation, and christian counseling.

she's still by nature a high strung person - she still struggles with obsessive compulsive behaviours periodiccally, especially hormonally driven things. But shes 100% better and functions way better off the meds -

but we couldent just quit cold turkey either....it had to be a tapered thing, I remember that.

[Rayne]

Laura was diagnosed with panic disorder also, about 10 years ago - it turned our lives into hell for a couple of years and she was on several different types of anti depresents including paxil.....

she got "off" the meds.

she felt she had to.

I supported that - because I was losing her to the medication, in varying degrees depending on what she was on, and it ALL had side effects.

but she felt like SHE was losing herself too. Laura has a certain shine to her - and the meds took that away. yes she stopped freakign out in the supermarket, but she stopped living too.

so she got off meds with nutrition changes, fish oils, detoxes, vitamin and mineral supplimentation, and christian counseling.

she's still by nature a high strung person - she still struggles with obsessive compulsive behaviours periodiccally, especially hormonally driven things. But shes 100% better and functions way better off the meds -

but we couldent just quit cold turkey either....it had to be a tapered thing, I remember that.

Maybe there just hasn't been a "right" med for her ... or it hasn't been tried on her.

I can tell you in my own expieriences, life was hell until I got on the meds. And 4 months later, I'm JUST NOW starting to pull out of the hell.

I've been pretty much ignoring the world, except for here at home, for a good chunk of 2007.

All my friends have been complaining that I am ignoring them ... I'm not. I developed this horrible condition and with the help of meds and doctors ... I'm just NOW getting back on track.

[Steven]

Maybe there just hasn't been a "right" med for her ... or it hasn't been tried on her.

I can tell you in my own expieriences, life was hell until I got on the meds. And 4 months later, I'm JUST NOW starting to pull out of the hell.

I've been pretty much ignoring the world, except for here at home, for a good chunk of 2007.

All my friends have been complaining that I am ignoring them ... I'm not. I developed this horrible condition and with the help of meds and doctors ... I'm just NOW getting back on track.

that makes sense.....Lola had to do that too. the disorder wore us both out and stretched me as a husband.

actually she still does it in small bursts.......thats how she can recharge her batteries and not get too over stimulated......since you have panic anxiety disorder you prolly get that.......

[Rayne]

that makes sense.....Lola had to do that too. the disorder wore us both out and stretched me as a husband.

actually she still does it in small bursts.......thats how she can recharge her batteries and not get too over stimulated......since you have panic anxiety disorder you prolly get that.......

I do.

And I have to say it has been just as hard on Phee as it has been on me. It has been hell on us both.

I'm just glad it's getting under control now.

[Steven]

I do.

And I have to say it has been just as hard on Phee as it has been on me. It has been hell on us both.

I'm just glad it's getting under control now.

Phee's a good man for sticking it out...most men would bail.

[Rayne]

Phee's a good man for sticking it out...most men would bail.

Your right.

I am lucky.

[Steven]

Your right.

I am lucky.

you are indeed Rayne, good men are hard to find.

[Homicidalheathen]

I have had enough. Can't take it anymore. Liked him better on the meds. When he is on them though they do have severe side effects....but limp dick or not, an asshole sits alone everynight......because no one can put up with their shit. Its either the crazy mood swings and stuff or side effects? I respect anyone who stays on their meds if they do indeed need them. Its not easy.

http://abilify.com/abilify/channels/bipola...p;referrer=null

Great if you don't need them anymore but......your brain chemistry did not change, you just got used to the meds.....see this part:

'But taking medicine as prescribed and staying on it can be hard. You may feel like you don't need medicine when your symptoms improve. And because the side effects can be bothersome, you may want to stop taking medicine altogether. It's important to continue taking your medicine until you talk with your healthcare provider. '

I am not going to get all prejudiced and never hang out with someone once I find out they have this....but.....it seems if someone is bi polar, which used to be called manic depressive illness btw.......and they start this shit with me, where I am their outlet or emotional punching bag or whatever.....then bye bye.......

http://www.bipolar.com/what_is_bipolar/typ...r_disorder.html

Oh and I found out alcohol is very bad for this not just if your on meds but if you are, don't mix them!

Oh and then there is this:

Borderline Personality Disorder

From here: http://www.recoveryconnection.org/mental_h...l_disorders.php

And I swear it seems to be a bit of this as the problem as well. manifesting as this; A pattern of unstable, intense relationships.

Difficulty in managing anger (fights, displays of temper, constantly angry or resentful).

Instability due to a marked reactive mood (irritability, anxiety lasting several hours, intense episodic dysphoria......but I am not a doctor. Its just that bi polar on its own doesn't seem to make people mean like that.

But the PTSD list fit me to a 't' so I think this is a good site.

Really think because I was raised by alcoholic parents (it makes ya nutty) maybe I am so used to putting up with mood swings and stuff that when I get involved with someone like this its almost normal to me so I put up with it for a while. I have to stop.....to realize it and not be involved with them and not try to 'help' them by sticking around.

[Homicidalheathen]

Quote: so she got off meds with nutrition changes, fish oils, detoxes, vitamin and mineral supplimentation, and christian counseling.

This really worked? Cause it doesnt' seem like if your symtoms were severe it would do much good.