I Know I Asked This Before But..

[Homicidalheathen]

My new friend is on meds big time.....ceraquil dunno how to spell it......but.....tis for nut cases....I looked it up.

And some anti depressents......and some anti psychotics........god. Is he that crazy??? Mood stablizers.....traquillizers......

My other friends kid is on the same exact crap at age 10. Why is everyone crazy?

A long time ago people got by without all this......was it the butt whippings that kept them in line or......?

I just don't get it. His girl breaks up with him and it sends him over the edge......most of us just drown our sorrows in a tub of ice cream and get on with our lives.......ya know?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Because the "health care system" says you need to be on them.

and it's easyer than dealing with the problems in your life you most likely caused... that would be like admitting fault or something....

[Kit Kat P]

because medications cost the gov't less than good therapy does

[freydis]

The thing i dont get is all the off-label usage. It seems like depression meds are being used for *everything*.

The first time i saw a doc for my occasional insomnia, he put me on Trazodone. A depression med used as a sedative. Messed me up. Got off that, and got a real sleeping med.

Now I've got gastric issues, and to slow down my digestion, theyve given me Elavil. Also a depression med. Granted, it's a very *small* dose, but wtf?

At least so far (*fingers crossed*) there's been no bad side effects, and it's been doing what it's supposed to.

But what the hell?

It seems like they're prescribing off-label usages quite a bit.....

[Scary Guy]

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't take medication for ANYTHING. Just large amounts of sugar and caffeine.

I work through my problems, I don't take pills to get around them.

[Head Wreck]

i'm not on meds full time.

maybe a days dose of loratadine if allergies surface which is rare (and lets fave it, i spend all weekend crawling around long grasses and bracken for fun and rarely notice it)

infact 1 days worth of loratadine every 2 years and that it. cold and flu is rare with me and dealt with via herbal infusions and rest

[Scales]

Awhile back I had developed some sort of nausea that seemed to come from anxiety. I would get sick almost everyday; if I was going to go out and do anything with my friends, I'd always ended up throwing-up first. I went to a clinic and they gave me some sort of anti-acid that tasted horrible, I was supposed to take it twice a day till the huge bottle was gone and then possibly go back for another prescription, I did it for awhile, but then the symptoms stopped, so I quit.

I was suggested Ritalin in third grade, and I probably would've done better in school if had taken it.

I'm also sure that I would be on anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds if I was to go to a doctor about the shit I've been through.

I really see the drug companies as extremely greedy and untrustworthy, I won't put drugs into my body I haven't studied and understand myself. Everything I've ever taken recreationally, I completely understand what it's doing to change my biochemistry, and I know all of the major risks. I don't see the point in funding the drug companies by taking relatively new medications that may or may not work, are over-prescribed, could lead to mental impairment later down the line, and overall an excuse and a way of saying everything is hopeless and a positive life should be achieved with drugs (note: I'm talking about anti-depressants); imo, I'd rather be miserable and work towards something.

I thought pets getting anti-depressants was a little weird.. but preschoolers, that just sounds out of line; that means the educational system is fucked-up, or the parents, not the kid.

[know_buddy_kares]

I was on meds once... and they actually didn't help anything but made things worse. Once I was out of the usmc and could no longer take them, i was really nervous how i might fare without them but to my surprise, i actually got better off the meds. It's quite simple, they come up with several catch all drugs that you just might NEED! and why do we do this placebo crap? Simple... it's a profit organization...

If our medical was socialist and non profit, ie.. FREE.. then the'd be working to fix you up to get you OFF THE DRUGS... not keep you on the drugs.. for keeping you on would cost money that they wont be making anymore....

It's like having to pay someone 200 dollars a month to buy medicine to make you feel better, however little do you know, the "permanent illness" you have just might be caused by the substance of wich you believe is supposedly helping you.

In short, I think most the pharmaceutical industry and medical insurances are scams and a big network of con artists.

[Brother_Hood]

I know there is often the belief that health care professionals are in cahoots with drug companies to make money by prescribing medicine. However, I honestly don't believe this to be true. Granted I am biased and I am a health care professional.

In Canada we essentially have a socialist medical system and the amount of people on meds (specifically - mental health meds) is huge. Throughout history there has always been a tremendous amount of mental illness. Most research suggest that approximately 85% of people will experience an episode of major depression in their lifetime. The rates of anxiety, insomnia, and functional illness are also exceedingly prevalent.

The question is are the rates increasing? Or are we just detecting it better and appropriately prescribing meds that may help a person. I believe it is a combination of the two. I think as our society gets more crowded and stressful people develop functional and mental illnesses. I view it as 'the too many rats in the maze phenomena'.

Granted, there are always some bad apples in any profession and some Physicians are guility of overprescribing medications. However, I believe most healthcare people desperately want to help people and medications are one route to accomplish that. In most cases prolonged cognitive -behavioural therapy is probably more success, especially when it involves family or relationship counselling. The problem is that therapy is expensive, time-consuming and not always readily available.

Whew... that was quite a rant.

[Homicidalheathen]

He doesn't seem that bad to me, depressed....who isn't at times? All this crap is making him sleep all the time. And I agree with you about the kid.....she needs counciling more than drugs. They had her on like 3-4 different meds a day.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

If our medical was socialist and non profit, ie.. FREE.. then the'd be working to fix you up to get you OFF THE DRUGS... not keep you on the drugs.. for keeping you on would cost money that they wont be making anymore....

31.6% Federal Taxes

6 to 16.6% Sales tax depending on the province

$300-$900 Health Care Tax if you earn over $20,000 a year

Excise Tax

Corporate Tax

Property Tax

yeah.. free

[know_buddy_kares]

31.6% Federal Taxes

6 to 16.6% Sales tax depending on the province

$300-$900 Health Care Tax if you earn over $20,000 a year

Excise Tax

Corporate Tax

Property Tax

yeah.. free

Oh no not the taxes! But compared to a $3,000 for a FUCKING STEROID SHOT from a poison ivy incident... yeah it's a hell of alot better deal... on top of that, there would be people who desprately need medical care but cannot afford it, would be getting it right now. So yeah, I'd gladly pay $900 a year as opposed to a $3,000 visit...

oh and the stiches i received last august for almost hacking my finger off.. over $15,000

so wich is the fucking rip off now? And since when have insurance companies been reliable? Personally, I've seen the ugly reality of this, and our way cleary is fucked up.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

See, thats the disconnect.

If all you are left with at the end of the day is about 10-30% of your income... does it matter if you gave it to a doctor/hospital or the government? You are still fucked for cash.

Universal health care is not "Free". the high cost of medical care is just shifted to a different payee.

and there is a reason so many Canadians come to the states to get medical care.

[xbittergracex]

If you don't have REAL reasons...like events and things effecting your life directly CAUSING you to be depressed/moody/tearful, then meds CAN help. They can sort of even out your system, so to speak.

But if you have had things happen, or THINGS HAPPENING, causing these problems, then all meds do is numb you.

I've been on meds for both reasons....but I feel like when things were happening to me....All it does is numb the feelings and as soon as your off the meds, you have to deal with it anyways.

I'm a strong believer in feel what you've got to feel. You have to go through the feelings when things are hurting you.

Medications are supposed to be for illnesses and sicknesses. Depression, cancer, etc.... Medications do not treat rape, family disfunction, abusive relationships, or unemployment.

And thats all I've got to say about that....which was probably too much LOL

[sass_in_the_pants]

That's a good question, HH.

I think it's just the nature of our culture. We want it fixed, we want it fixed now, and easy.

Most therapists I know are crazy themselves anyway, so if I needed some treatment, I would definitely pick meds over seeing a therapist.

[Homicidalheathen]

I broke a bone in my hand this week. Makes the second break from a hard bump so the doc wants to put me on calcium supplements (can we say lead anyone?) and hormone replacement therapy as I had most of my er plumming removed from the divers/colitis.....

I said no.

They wanted to put me on Aderral at the sleep disorder clinic even though my doc said no because it um constipates

The guts come first.

The other doctor said I needed it for my ADHD

Nope. Not doing it. Did it a few times and almost had a heart attack the last time. Never again.

Then they wanted me to take steroids (??) for the gut problems.....not sure if they are trying to turn me into a man or what with that one......dont want to grow face hair lol

They tell me not to drink but it is THE WORLDS BEST PAIN RELIEF and believe me, I would know.

AND it works better than salt water to get me going.......so.....I do it instead. And vicodin is addicting........constipates me more, and doesn't really help it just makes you high, nausiated and still in pain lol.

I can't count on one hand the times I have almost died from prescribed drugs.

3x in the hospital. 2 of which were alergic reactions.

When my kids were little, this indian (short!) doctor wanted to put them on growth hormones.......with bad joint and bone disorders running in my family.....because they were short! God! I am short! HE was short!!! I was like what is so bad about being short, shorty? And he got kinda aloof.

They both got taller than me, one is 5 ft 5!!! I told him that happens in my family, we go with tall guys and our kids sprout later.....

but some of the women stay short.....big deal. Same thing happened to my girl cousin and she is 6 ft now

could you imagine if they had done that to her? She'd be a giant!!! And she was tiny.

They also wanted to give my kids ritalin and were willing to take me to court....so we moved and changed schools and they turned out fine.

I am very against drugging kids.

thing 2 doesn't even need her asthma inhailer anymore.....

WE do get flu shots......but thats about it.

Well just me and thing 2 cause of the illness stuff and her care taking.

This just makes me so sad though. I know this guy who is only 28, he used to be so full of life, now he comes home from work at 4pm and sleeps till 8pm then I go over there and he is up for a few hours and goes back to bed.

I guess its better than him jumping out a window......but still I wonder why there isn't another way or if it is just a product of our society....being so far removed from a natural way of life.

[pomba gira]

My new friend is on meds big time.....ceraquil dunno how to spell it......but.....tis for nut cases....I looked it up.

And some anti depressents......and some anti psychotics........god. Is he that crazy??? Mood stablizers.....traquillizers......

My other friends kid is on the same exact crap at age 10. Why is everyone crazy?

A long time ago people got by without all this......was it the butt whippings that kept them in line or......?

I just don't get it. His girl breaks up with him and it sends him over the edge......most of us just drown our sorrows in a tub of ice cream and get on with our lives.......ya know?

What Brother Hood said.

To put it in a bit more detail, for better or worse, the reasons are:

1. Better diagnosis

2. More awareness of mental illness

3. Less stigma attached to seeking help for mental/emotional problems

4. INTENSIVE advertising by Big Pharma, aimed at both health care providers and consumers

5. The "syndrome of the year" effect (this is especially an issue with children... in the '90s it was ADHD, these days it's bipolar disorder)

6. Life is really, truly more confusing and stressful than it was, say, 30 years ago

7. Conversely, there is a higher expectation that we're supposed to be "happy" with our lives... even though most of us probably can't define just what "happiness" entails.

8. Our society is HEAVILY into quick fixes and eager to believe anyone who offers them

And... it isn't really accurate to say that people did just fine w/out all this in the past. Sure some people did, but a whole lot of others self-medicated with alcohol, had "nervous breakdowns", or just led lives of quiet despair. Same with special ed and other educational innovations that some folks feel are unnecessary... the "old way" DIDN'T work just fine for everyone. There're a lot of folks walking around who are quite intelligent but never learned to read, and were labelled as lazy or "behavior problems"... nowadays we'd recognize them as having learning disabilities or perceptual disorders like dyslexia.

My opinion on the butt whippings: they didn't work in and of themselves. People had a whole different attitude toward authority, so of course children did, too. Nowadays people are not automatically awed by authority figures... so you can't expect children to be, either. Back in the day, people didn't expect the same degree of control over their own destiny as we do now... the "because I said so" approach worked on kids because, in a somewhat more indirect/abstract sense, it worked on adults too.

[pomba gira]

31.6% Federal Taxes

6 to 16.6% Sales tax depending on the province

$300-$900 Health Care Tax if you earn over $20,000 a year

Excise Tax

Corporate Tax

Property Tax

yeah.. free

Nothing is ever free. We pay in $$ or we pay in diminished quality of life for everyone. But in the long run it costs everyone a lot less to make sure that people can get a couple hundred bucks worth of treatment for a urinary tract infection, rather than ending up hospitalized with nephritis that costs $30k + to treat.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

pomba - I would love if everyone had health care coverage of the highest level. I don't think universal health care, as everyone thinks of it, will ever work. As long as it's a "for profit" business and as long as insurance companys, with a special interst on HMOs have a hand in it... it's never goingto work. Handing the reins to the peoples health care to the government won't be any better. It only works half assed in the countrys that have adopted it.

In MY view, not saying it is right or better than anyone elses, what we need to do is get rid of the insurance companys. First, we look at just how much the average employer pays for health insurace and workmans comp insurance. They still pay that much per employee, but into a national health care fund. Companys that make drugs in the US would be required to give them to the health department as actual cost but could sell them internationally for a fixed profit. Not a large one, but enough to help off set the cost of making them... any "profit" would go back into the health system. Medical procedures would be charged against the National health fund, at a realistic cost without profit. Elective cosmetic procedures would come otu of a person's own pocket, with a reasonable profit... into the national health fund.

We could make it work. We would have to change everything. We would have to stop trying to have our cake and eat it too.

[pomba gira]

pomba - I would love if everyone had health care coverage of the highest level. I don't think universal health care, as everyone thinks of it, will ever work. As long as it's a "for profit" business and as long as insurance companys, with a special interst on HMOs have a hand in it... it's never goingto work. Handing the reins to the peoples health care to the government won't be any better. It only works half assed in the countrys that have adopted it.

In MY view, not saying it is right or better than anyone elses, what we need to do is get rid of the insurance companys. First, we look at just how much the average employer pays for health insurace and workmans comp insurance. They still pay that much per employee, but into a national health care fund. Companys that make drugs in the US would be required to give them to the health department as actual cost but could sell them internationally for a fixed profit. Not a large one, but enough to help off set the cost of making them... any "profit" would go back into the health system. Medical procedures would be charged against the National health fund, at a realistic cost without profit. Elective cosmetic procedures would come otu of a person's own pocket, with a reasonable profit... into the national health fund.

We could make it work. We would have to change everything. We would have to stop trying to have our cake and eat it too.

I totally agree that it would never work under the current for-profit model, especially with the insurance companies running the show. Big Pharma also plays a huge part in how fucked the current system is, and of course they will fight anything that threatens the vast profits they make. And I also don't believe that just handing it over to the government, using existing models, is going to work. You are entirely right, there are ways to make it work, but they require the willingness to start from scratch and rethink the way we think of sickness and health as a business. IMHO this is true of most problems in our society, from education to crime... the world is an entirely different place than it was 50 or 100 years ago, so just revamping the traditional solutions (many of which never really worked that well to begin with) isn't gonna cut it. But as long as certain elements are making $$ from those solutions, they'll make sure to reinforce our inherent xenophobia, so that there's always resistance to real change. "Come a time", though... I have great faith in the younger generation. There is a radical difference in worldview between people born before and after... oh... say, the 1980s... so we're definitely gonna see some changes down the road a bit.

[Steven]

you take a watered down and deflated post summer of love generation and turn them into stockbrokers and associates.

you replace lofty utopian ideals with cynical business sense.

you introduce "appropriate" symbolism into society that equates to what we accept as "succesful" and in order to afforred that model you re-distribute the family into a dual income machine.

you attack and criticize anything that smacks of an absolute and embrace a relative approach where you can literally do no wrong. this way you havent really abandoned your values of the past when you were so young and passionate about your fellow man and his livlihood before you got a Lexus and a 401K.

oh, and along the way you breed. you "sort of" pass along values and ethics to your children in between periods of exhaustion and they watch you and learn from you and even resent you. You hand them over to the machine of cuture and the overburdoned educatuion system to rear them. And you feed them food with littel nutritional value, and you overstimulate their bodies with hormones and antibiotics. And your on your third divorce now. ANd you really dont listen to yoru children because you really dont care, thats the teacher's job to do anyway....

and so for the children

they beleive in ................... nothing.

and aspire to .................not much

and fall back on ............... whatever works (only it dont)

and respect and admire ................ even less

and in this unfullfilling void of an environment there are physiological responses that are measurable....and we get the great medical "aha!!" see? I told you you were bi-polar. I told you had I hate Thursday disorder. I told you you were a victim.

then we advertise to them, a market allready created generationally: feel bad? take this. Cant sleep? take that. havin a bad day? take this.

and so they do.

and then THEY Breed....and it all starts over again, a little worse each time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when somene decides to finnally invade this country we'll be SO friggen ripe for the pickens because wev'e bred out our backbone and identity and have inbred weakness and faithlessness with no foundation to fall back upon on a large scale.

[Onyx]

It's a touchy subject, but some people do need medication. Have you ever really been close to someone with szhizophrenia? It's easy to say meds are bad until you deal with someone off their meds who really need them.

I do think some don't need all the meds they are taking, and it should be kept to a minimum, as few drugs as possible, but there are a lot who could use some good medical or mental health care and don't get it. It would cut down on the crazy homeless people if they had a way to get some help for themselves.

What about alcohol, pot and pain meds people use to get high? Seems nobody comprehends that those are drugs too. I've always suspected that a lot who get falling down drunk every weekend really need antidepressants and are trying to self-medicate. Alcohol doesn't make for a good treatment for depression.

[Steven]

It's a touchy subject, but some people do need medication. Have you ever really been close to someone with szhizophrenia? It's easy to say meds are bad until you deal with someone off their meds who really need them.

I do think some don't need all the meds they are taking, and it should be kept to a minimum, as few drugs as possible, but there are a lot who could use some good medical or mental health care and don't get it. It would cut down on the crazy homeless people if they had a way to get some help for themselves.

What about alcohol, pot and pain meds people use to get high? Seems nobody comprehends that those are drugs too. I've always suspected that a lot who get falling down drunk every weekend really need antidepressants and are trying to self-medicate. Alcohol doesn't make for a good treatment for depression.

YES

one cousin, one aunt - both medicated and breifly institutionalized for schizophrenia

my wife was also on meds for a couple of years for panic anxiety disorder

and Me - I self medicated for many years with every combination of street and pharmecutical drugs I could deal or steal.

obviously I was being rather general though Onyx - with what I posted. I do acknowledge that there are circumstances that require medical assistance, I do get it. But I also acknowledge social trends and our widespread lack of coping skills as a society, and that is what concerns me. I spent many years getting high because I couldent deal with me and what I inherited, so i didint. Once I started gettign into mentoring relationships and entering into differeing forms of accounbtability, I stopped getting high. i didint 12 step - I dealt with my demons. That whole schpiel about addicition being a disease.....its propoganda in my opinion, and it sets you up for future failure because you take on a PERMANENT identity of always being in remission, but always being an addict. Thats not healing, its a fear based trigger device. Thats like telling a cancer survivor that they will always be full of cancer. Or a rape victim they will always be a victim.

in the case of my aunt and cousin - I know why they went nuts - I know their secrets and the family secrets - their childhoods were more heinous than mine. But they never dealt with it and eventually it dealt them. I watched them start to change when I was in my mid teens and they we in their middle aged stages of life.

[sass_in_the_pants]

you take a watered down and deflated post summer of love generation and turn them into stockbrokers and associates.

you replace lofty utopian ideals with cynical business sense.

you introduce "appropriate" symbolism into society that equates to what we accept as "succesful" and in order to afforred that model you re-distribute the family into a dual income machine.

you attack and criticize anything that smacks of an absolute and embrace a relative approach where you can literally do no wrong. this way you havent really abandoned your values of the past when you were so young and passionate about your fellow man and his livlihood before you got a Lexus and a 401K.

oh, and along the way you breed. you "sort of" pass along values and ethics to your children in between periods of exhaustion and they watch you and learn from you and even resent you. You hand them over to the machine of cuture and the overburdoned educatuion system to rear them. And you feed them food with littel nutritional value, and you overstimulate their bodies with hormones and antibiotics. And your on your third divorce now. ANd you really dont listen to yoru children because you really dont care, thats the teacher's job to do anyway....

and so for the children

they beleive in ................... nothing.

and aspire to .................not much

and fall back on ............... whatever works (only it dont)

and respect and admire ................ even less

and in this unfullfilling void of an environment there are physiological responses that are measurable....and we get the great medical "aha!!" see? I told you you were bi-polar. I told you had I hate Thursday disorder. I told you you were a victim.

then we advertise to them, a market allready created generationally: feel bad? take this. Cant sleep? take that. havin a bad day? take this.

and so they do.

and then THEY Breed....and it all starts over again, a little worse each time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when somene decides to finnally invade this country we'll be SO friggen ripe for the pickens because wev'e bred out our backbone and identity and have inbred weakness and faithlessness with no foundation to fall back upon on a large scale.

Sometimes, your posts just bum me out Steven.

I know, I know, you were answering a question. And you're answer isn't wrong.

I just don't like it.

[Steven]

Sometimes, your posts just bum me out Steven.

I know, I know, you were answering a question. And you're answer isn't wrong.

I just don't like it.

you know what babe? sometimes I dont like what I post either. but the problem is that everything I just posted....I beleive. It's not that I'm cynical. I see it all as a consipracy of sorts (whole other Oprah)....I jsut feel like the obvious is right there and were all asleep at the wheel...