Why Do I Get The Feeling That People Hate Children?

[sass_in_the_pants]

Oh wait, I know why, it's because people say so. They say 'I hate children'. That's why I get that impression.

Not my circle of friends and family, they think they're great fun. But, occasionally, I have to go visit The Real World, and soon, I will have to take my kids out into The Real World, it's that place that worries me.

I get the impression that being child-free is somewhere between being smoke-free and germ-free. That unleashing your children into the world is something like releasing ferrel cats.

And, admittedly, there are a number of places where children, well, have no place. When you want to go out to eat with your kid, the breakfast buffet at Big Boy's is a fine choice. A Saturday night at a $50 a plate steak house, probably not a fine choice. Steak houses know this - that's why they make crappy chicken nuggets. I can appreciate that.

But there ARE places that children DO, in fact, belong. Parks, beaches, Big Boy...and yet, people seem annoyed that they are there, too.

And airplanes...I was once seated next to a man who smelled of Drakkar Noir and French cheese and feet, and I sat in that green cloud of musky smelling nasty for an eight hour flight. I have been seated next to people whose fat rolls had no respect for the boundary of the arm rest. And I have been seated next to people who wanted nothing more than someone to talk to...all the way there...about their divorce. And yet, it's the crying baby who gets the sideways glances. At least the crying baby eventually shut up.

Am I just being sensitive? Is this a real trend I'm sensing? Do as many people hate children as I think hate children?

And by the way, along the same lines as oozing wounds and stories of how cool you are, I think DNA is something that should be kept to oneself unless expressly requested. So, I actually think the idea of people who don't want children not having children ranks up there in brilliance with arm rest cup holders and E =MC2. It's not that I think everyone needs to go make babies of their own, but I do think society needs a level of tolerance of other people's babies.

After all, eventually they grow out of their diapers, and all of us will be back in diapers. And someone's gonna have to change that stinky mess.

[Steven]

I dont (hate em). Actually kids are rather amazing to me, and as stupid as it sounds I started to un-learn alot of bad shit because of kids.

[Msterbeau]

I think people in general are becoming ruder, more selfish and inconsiderate. I hate (yes hate) that some of these people have children and teach them this asshole-ish behavior and that these children then influence mine. Fuck em all. We're going to stay in the house, watch Star Wars and play with Legos.

[Brenda Starrr]

Oh, my God.....

This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves ever. I have heard a lot of people say that they "hate" children. As if they were born the big, dumb assholes that they're being for even thinking it. It's perfectly fine to say that you don't want children, or don't enjoy being around children.

But to say that you HATE them? PLEASE. It's ludicrous. It's rude. And it makes them look like complete idiots.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....a lot of children are whiny, bitchy, moody. But they're also quite brilliant, funny, and insightful. We were at a party last night. During the "family friendly" portion, Sierra was with us. Now, Sierra is a gorgeous and smart 12-year-old who says some pretty bizarre things at times (hey, don't we ALL??). And the niece of the host, who isn't quite 21 yet, had the nerve to say that Sierra is annoying. Yes, Sierra has her moments. But I took offense to this one. This girl is (to me) pretty immature for her age. And she was sporting a hickey and feigning embarassment, yet seemingly enjoyed the attention. And she sure did throw enough hints to some of us that she wanted a jello shot or two. Hurry up, CHILD. Grow fast. If you want to call sneaking liquor mature.

SHE was annoying.

She didn't say that she hated children, but she sure acted like it. And I told her that Sierra wasn't being annoying, she was being 12. I bet that these are the very same people who tell children to grow up, only to make these children grow up entirely too fast. I'll take my kids as youngsters for now, thank you. I'll take my time molding them and trying to make them act their ages as they BECOME older. I'm in no hurry for my almost 14-year-old son to be an adult. Same goes for my daughter.

And like you said, Sass, they're going to be the ones to end up in diapers. Ahhh yes.....they'll come full circle. Their children will have to change them. Maybe they'll even say "I hate old people." Because you can't help being a child at some point. But you sure can help becoming old if you choose to do so.

Fools.

[SuZQZ]

I think people in general are becoming ruder, more selfish and inconsiderate....

I've noticed this, too. Hard not to when it's so rampant. My daughter is 11 now. She's energetic and creative, always has been. I've taught her to ignore the "grown-ups" you've described and just do her own thing and be herself. This does not mean I allow her to act inappropriately in a given situation. For instance, if we are at a restaurant, I don't let her run around the tables; at a store, I don't let her pull product willy-nilly off the shelves or racks and make a mess, etc., but I do let her be what she is, a kid. On the rare occasion that some self-absorbed snob has looked at her with displeasure or made some rude comment, I plaster a big smile on my face, and with the sweetest voice say to them something like "get over yourself" (or "fuck off" depending on the comment). This usually corrects the adults behavior. That, and a rolled up news paper to the nose with a stern, "Bad adult, bad".

[Crazed Vampyress]

I am not a fan of children. I knew when i was about 15 that i had no interest in having children. and yes, ive said the phrase 'ugh! gawd i hate kids'. i love going to the arcade but rarely go unless school is in session. Im more likely to go play skee-ball at dave and busters than c j barrymore's. I go to the park after dark. i do not pass out Halloween candy.

some people dont like dogs. some people dont like drugs. some people dont like children.

This doesnt mean that i go out in public and harass people out with their kids. This doesnt mean when a family comes into my store to eat i kick them out. This doesnt mean Im going to throw your child in front of a moving bus. And this doesnt mean that i despise all children everywhere and hope for their instant deaths.

I love my friends kids, i love being 'auntie' i babysit on occasion and even get phone calls from my friends kids who live farther away to tell me about the A they got on a science project or the school play they're going to be in. i send them gifts or take them on outings.

so what does this mean?

nothing really. just because i dont walk past a newborn and want six of my own doesnt make me a bad person. when i take my friends kids to the park and watch them play i enjoy seeing that they're happy, just because seeing a bunch of strangers kids doesnt make me go all 'ooh and ahh' doesnt mean im going to shove them off the monkeybars.

And really i think many people, like me, have used the phrase 'i hate kids' incorrectly. Because when it comes down to it, its not that i hate kids. its that i hate parents who have undisciplined bratty little fuckers who they let run all the fuck all over the place. a newborn baby crying doesnt bother me, its a baby. it cries. period. but standing in the middle of the department store while your 8-year-old terror shoves your shopping cart into the back of my legs as i walk by because he's in mid-hissyfit over the candy you wont buy him is unacceptable. Some kids who come into Tubby's and eat with their parents are the cutest little things and it always puts a smile on my face when i get a little 5-yr-old who tries to order her food herself, just as cute and confident as can be and her parents are there helping her out. awesome! then there are the parents who come in and while they order they dont even look to see that precious little billy just dumped my entire stack of lids all over the floor and is now stick straws into the pop machine while his sister sally is pulling leaves off my trees and seeing how much toilet paper she can pull off the roll in the ladies room before anyone notices she's in there.

its really not the kids fault. its the parents.

[bean]

I love children. I don't love when they are out of control because their parents are morons. And yes, this is different from children just being children. Kids are loud and energetic. I have no problem with that.

I hate going to the grocery store and seeing kids running around like maniacs, screaming their fool heads off, no parent in sight, or the parent is right there, yapping away on their phone, talking about "like omg, I bought these shoes..." Shut the fuck up and take care of your kids. There's probably some sicko in the store that is going to kidnap your children, or some douche bag that is going to smack them for being loud. And honestly, screaming makes my brain hurt, but kids scream...it's what they do. However, there is a time and a place for everything. The grocery store is not the place for screaming.

You know what, screaming children do annoy me sometimes. Loud adults annoy me sometimes. People who wear too much perfume or have b.o. annoy me sometimes. Old people that drive 10 miles under the speed limit annoy me. Stupidity annoys me.

I get annoyed, it's how I roll.

I think it's great when parents take their kids places most people would frown on (like the $50 a steak restaurant), because that tells me that those parents want their kids to experience all life has to offer, and won't exclude them from something because some ass clown wants kids to be limited to certain places.

Will I stare at the baby crying in the restaurant? Yes. But I will also stare at the lady talking at the top of her lungs about nonsense or the guy who's been hacking up a lung for the past hour.

I had a point, but I forgot what it is. I'll add it in later if I remember.

[the eternal]

WARNING: Spending too much time with the eternal will cause all thought processes to get derailed

I love children. I don't love when they are out of control because their parents are morons. And yes, this is different from children just being children. Kids are loud and energetic. I have no problem with that.

I hate going to the grocery store and seeing kids running around like maniacs, screaming their fool heads off, no parent in sight, or the parent is right there, yapping away on their phone, talking about "like omg, I bought these shoes..." Shut the fuck up and take care of your kids. There's probably some sicko in the store that is going to kidnap your children, or some douche bag that is going to smack them for being loud. And honestly, screaming makes my brain hurt, but kids scream...it's what they do. However, there is a time and a place for everything. The grocery store is not the place for screaming.

You know what, screaming children do annoy me sometimes. Loud adults annoy me sometimes. People who wear too much perfume or have b.o. annoy me sometimes. Old people that drive 10 miles under the speed limit annoy me. Stupidity annoys me.

I get annoyed, it's how I roll.

I think it's great when parents take their kids places most people would frown on (like the $50 a steak restaurant), because that tells me that those parents want their kids to experience all life has to offer, and won't exclude them from something because some ass clown wants kids to be limited to certain places.

Will I stare at the baby crying in the restaurant? Yes. But I will also stare at the lady talking at the top of her lungs about nonsense or the guy who's been hacking up a lung for the past hour.

I had a point, but I forgot what it is. I'll add it in later if I remember.

[bean]

WARNING: Spending too much time with the eternal will cause all thought processes to get derailed

I just woke up..so my brain process is fuzzy

[Onyx]

When my children were small there were a lot of places where I just didn't go because it was not appropriate to take my kids with me and I didn't like using babysitters too often.

I really really hate paying $$$ to go to a very nice adult restaurant (not a family style place) and having to put up with misbehaving crying children.

There are a lot of places were little ones are uncomfortable and of course they are going to get tired and cry. Adults are the ones I hate sometimes. Making the choice to have children sometimes means making the choice to sacrifice some adult things for a time to stay home with your little ones or take them to somewhere appropriate.

[Fierce Critter]

I do not like children.

And my husband feels exactly the same way I do.

We do not go out of our way to harrass children, or people who choose to have children. We understand - it's what happens. It'd be ludicrous for us to think the "normal" thing would be for everybody to decide children aren't a good idea. Duh.

Why don't we like children?

1) We don't like loud. And kids, from babies onward, are loud. Crying, screaming when they don't get their way, yelling to their friends, blasting stereos out their first cars, etc.

2) We don't like out-of-control. And all too often, the kids we encounter are out-of-control. Running without looking where they're going, or who they're running into. Using heelies in stores where I'm trying to walk. Taking everything off store shelves and leaving it willy-nilly everywhere. Running up to touch me with fudgsicle residue all over them. Screaming their heads off.

3) We know if we had children ourselves, we wouldn't be happy. Hell, I had a dream the other night that I had a baby - and I was so put-out by having to "lug it everywhere" I decided to let it go for adoption. We are selfish with our time. We know this. If I had a baby, if somehow Jon's vasectomy reversed itself and all of a sudden, I became preggers, I honestly don't know what the end result would be. I wouldn't abort. But I don't know if either of us would want to keep it. And yes, part of me is nauseated that I would even think that way. That dream disturbed me - to a point.

4) I have become an ageist, at least I think so. I am not amused by precociousness. It annoys me. It's a waste of my time. I don't find it "precious" nor impressive. I find it rude. I don't care for "little adults". I prefer actual adults, and the elderly. That said, I also am annoyed by morons who are obviously idiots, yet try to act smart. And immature fools.

5) Babies make my friends go away. Every single friend I've had over the years is inaccessible to me because - I do not have a baby, too. They have to take care of their baby. So they generally either can't get away, or if they do, it's generally to do stuff that people can do with their babies/kids. I don't do those things. 'Cause I don't have kids. And I'm not interested in doing kid stuff.

That said...

I am not the child-sniffing-out-freak-from-Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang (for those too freaking young to know, he's the guy who inspired Marilyn Manson's "Smells Like Children" scenerio). I do not hate all children and want them all to go away. I do not go out of my way to negatively affect children or parents or people who like or have kids.

I blame parents for unruly children. I was the youngest of 6 kids, my parents were old-school (they're the age of most DGN'ers grandparents), I was raised a great deal by my oldest sister, who is 18 years my senior. I had my moments of unruliness. But those moments were few, and dealt with firmly but definitely. I was never beaten. I was not repressed. But it was clear to me from a very young age that rudeness, unruliness, inappropriate loudness, disrespectful treatment of others, etc were unacceptable. I was definitely allowed to be a kid. I had a lot of fun growing up. But I was polite to others. I was not destructive, I didn't steal, I didn't scream if I didn't get "my way". Sometimes I was taught through "lessons". "This is why it's not right to act this way, and this is the correct way to comport yourself." Sometimes it was through punishment. "You took dad's seeds and planted them all over the place. That wasn't cool. But the reason you're being sent to your room is because you lied about it."

Parents these days do not parent. NO, that's not true across the board. But today, compared to the 70's when I was in my elementary school years, things are just freaking chaos where parenting is concerned. I've said it in other threads - when I was growing up, kids had a healthy and definite respect for their elders. It was o.k. to fear adults. Because adults were in charge. Adults just don't take charge anymore. I see a kid on my street stripping the branches off a sapling tree in Mr. Smith's yard and say, "hey, kid, knock it off!" If that had been me, well, I probably wouldn't have been stripping those branches in the first place. But if an adult saw me and said that too me, I'd nearly shit my pants. I'd stop. I'd apologize. And I might end up having to explain myself to my parents after that adult went to my house and told them what I'd done. No. Not today. I see a kid doing that and tell them to knock it off, know what I hear back? "FUCK YOU. YOU'RE NOT MY MOM." And they keep doing it.

My parents have caught kids doing shit like this. And they have told the parent. And they have been told, "So what. Mind your own business."

I do laud places that have chosen to have a "no children" policy. It is their right. If they choose to run an establishment that is adult-friendly, let them. There are PLENTY of places where children are allowed. MOST places, if you really think about it. I understand that if I go to Little Ceasar's Play Place that there are going to be TONS OF LOUD, UNRULY KIDS. So I don't go there. But if there is a place available to me that I know I won't be sat next to three kids in highchairs who are throwing food all over, or screaming, or crying, or babbling incessently - I will go there gladly. These establishments are generally run by people who have observed the same lack of parental control that I have, and decided "no more." Some of them have kids themselves.

The thing is, those of us who recognize our general, overall disinterest/dislike of all things kids and who choose to not have them are commented at rudely, looked down upon, treated like we're crazy on a regular basis by general society. I can't tell you how many times I've had to answer the question, "when are you having kids" or "do you have any kids". And if I try to give a short answer, "we're not having kids" or "No, I don't have any kids," I am not left alone. It is always followed-up. "Why in the world wouldn't you have kids?" "Are you sterile?" The responses/questions I've gotten are insanely rude, and none of anyone's business. Yet I am always looked upon as a horrible person for this.

I think it's great when people raise good kids. We need good kids for this world's future. But, as a generally optimistic yet realistic person, I do not think enough of these good kids exist. I don't think there are enough good parents anymore. I am pessimistic due to observation and experience. I see way more uncontrolled, rude kids these days than I do polite, well-behaved kids. Jesus, let a kid be a kid. Don't try to make them grow up too fast, and don't try to treat them like an adult. Let them have fun. Let them explore. Keep them in line. Make them learn, educate them. But don't just spawn 'em and let the world do what it will with them.

My husband and I do not like kids. We are not inflicting ourselves on kids of our own, nor do we do so to other's kids. Just please please. Respect our choice/preference as we do yours. Have your kids, enjoy them, take them appropriate places and raise them well. And allow us to not have kids, to not want to interact with them, and to have places where we can go and be around adults alone.

[creatureofthenyte]

Kids aren't for everyone.

I think that the real reason why, some people "hate" kids, or just other peoples' kids, could be that in this day and age, there is a growing segment of the parent population who do a shitty job of raising their kids.

When I say, they do a shitty job of raising thier kids, I mean : they don't teach them manners, or self control/self discipline, from an early age.

My mom has always said, that if kids aren't taught all that, by age 7 then, yer screwed.

As I have learned from being around my nephew, from the time my sister gave birth to him, till now, he's 6, I have seen the positive results of his being taught how to behave properly. My nephew is courteous, respectful, well mannered, and behaves well.

He isn't rowdy, obnoxious and doesn't whine to get his way.

He also isn't fresh.

He doesn't cuss.

If I ever were to be a father, I would want a kid like my nephew.

He isn't perfect ya know, he sometimes gets grumpy and cops an attitude, but he gets told what will be taken away from him if he doesn't snap out of it, which usually is quite effective.

Some parents just don't get this.

Im not a parent, so I cannot speak from firsthand experience, Im just an uncle.

But it seems that parenting is a very "hands-on" endeavor, and some people seem to have lost sight of that.

Hence, what so many of us see when we go out places and have to endure the rowdy whiney, loud, bratty kids.

[saechalyn]

I don't hate children, but I don't particularly like them, either. I won't be mean to a kid of course, but even if they are well-behaved I just don't relate well to them and I'm not too interested in being around them. I won't complain about kids being in public places where kids should be, but as others have said there are far too many unsupervised oversugared children who have not been taught how to act appropriately.

[Gauge]

becau

[Gauge]

for every mother or father that i have that come in with their babys in their arms, who cry when they see their first smiles or first steps, and who couldnt possibly love anything more i have 5 other familys who thought they wanted kids but found out that you actually have to take care of them. these parents do not dicipline (or over dicipline and cause the same reaction) their kids scream, cry, and throw fits and hate the world because thier parents hate them, this is just what i see tho. . . ive seen both examples of these familys from 4 days old up to early teens and the results are the same. its the kids without love that get the attention from strangers because there the ones you see ripping stuff off the shelf, hitting their siblings, and screaming at the top of their lungs. anyway, i think people "hate children" because either a. they thought they wanted them and found out they didnt or b. their strangers looking at the children and blameing them for their parents lack of parenting.

i think there are certain places that kids just shouldnt be wether thier well behaved or not. i use to hang out at this coffee shop. it was almost completely 20-25 years old drinking coffee, cramming for midterms, and playing cards. there was no drinking but there was a decent amount of smoking. this was an awsome place where you could hang out, do your homework in a nice environment with free wifi, and play a game of chess with your friends. . .untill a few years ago. these 20 something students would come in durring the day with their kids (wich wasnt a huge deal durring the day on the upper floor) but would hang out with them till all hours of the night, letting them run around and cry and scream. no one goes there anymore because now they cant study, they cant play card games, or chess, they cant even drink coffee in peace because the children are bumping into their tables and spilling it on their laptops.

i think people blame the children for irresponsible parents

[Hellion]

When the government decided to put legislation into the family

it made a problem much worse,good parents cannot even

lightly spank their kids when they are doing something wrong

without getting in trouble with the authorities,government gave

too much power to the kids,and its almost like good parents cannot

punish their kids properly without getting in trouble themselves.

Of course this resulted from POS parents that took the

punishment way too far.

[Gauge]

When the government decided to put legislation into the family

it made a problem much worse,good parents cannot even

lightly spank their kids when they are doing something wrong

without getting in trouble with the authorities,government gave

too much power to the kids,and its almost like good parents cannot

punish their kids properly without getting in trouble themselves.

Of course this resulted from POS parents that took the

punishment way too far.

its mostly in the raising tho. the parents who are loveing and take the time to put at least decent values into their children dont have the same problems as those who dont. the parents who are positive and happy with their children will sit them down and explain to them that their not beeing good, might tell them they need a time out or stand in the corner, the other parents will flip at the slightest thing (maybe there beeing just a little hyper but not out of controlle) and will pull their children out by the arms throw them into the other room and practically beat them till their balling and trying to run away. . .what does that solve.

[creatureofthenyte]

When the government decided to put legislation into the family

it made a problem much worse,good parents cannot even

lightly spank their kids when they are doing something wrong

without getting in trouble with the authorities,government gave

too much power to the kids,and its almost like good parents cannot

punish their kids properly without getting in trouble themselves.

Of course this resulted from POS parents that took the

punishment way too far.

Yeah, but a parent should not have to smack their kid, to get them to behave.If the child is raised properly, then the child will not behave in such a way that spanking could be deemed neccesary.

If they resort to violence, then the kid will always fear the parent, and carry that fear into adulthood, adversely affecting the relationships they get into.

[Scales]

I do not hate kids, but I'd never have them. My father's father was apparently not much of one. My father was a verbally abusive asshole with anger episodes whom I caught cheating on my mom through email; we have an understanding now, he will stay out of my life as much as possible, and I will fully forgive him and forget him, when both of my siblings have moved out.

I don't think most people hate kids, but just get annoyed too easily. I get annoyed when I see parents constantly yelling at and threatening their kids in public.

[Hellion]

its mostly in the raising tho. the parents who are loveing and take the time to put at least decent values into their children dont have the same problems as those who dont. the parents who are positive and happy with their children will sit them down and explain to them that their not beeing good, might tell them they need a time out or stand in the corner, the other parents will flip at the slightest thing (maybe there beeing just a little hyper but not out of controlle) and will pull their children out by the arms throw them into the other room and practically beat them till their balling and trying to run away. . .what does that solve.

Btw this was directed at good parents who do raise their kids well,but would

get in trouble for lightly spanking their kids for mis behaving,but also as not

to hurting them at all,and teaching them that what they did was wrong.

Immature overacting parents are the ones who turn the spanking into

a beating which is bs.my old man was a good example of a POS parent.

thank goth my mother divorced him and took care of us,and raised

us as a single parent for 22 years.It has been two and a half years

since me and my two other siblings have last spoken to him,

since he is still a negative asshole,let alone remarried

now back to the subject.

[Gauge]

Btw this was directed at good parents who do raise their kids well,but would

get in trouble for lightly spanking their kids for mis behaving,but also as not

to hurting them at all,and teaching them that what they did was wrong.

Immature overacting parents are the ones who turn the spanking into

a beating which is bs.my old man was a good example of a POS parent.

thank goth my mother divorced him and took care of us,and raised

us as a single parent for 22 years.It has been two and a half years

since me and my two other siblings have last spoken to him,

since he is still a negative asshole,let alone remarried

now back to the subject.

ahh gotchya. i think the kids dont turn on their parents tho in those situations because they respect them more

[Fierce Critter]

Yeah, but a parent should not have to smack their kid, to get them to behave.If the child is raised properly, then the child will not behave in such a way that spanking could be deemed neccesary.

If they resort to violence, then the kid will always fear the parent, and carry that fear into adulthood, adversely affecting the relationships they get into.

Sorry, but I'm going to say bullshit.

I was most definitely raised properly. I wasn't "smacked around." But if I did something really bad, I got a spanking. Either with the hand or the belt. On the ass. never on the legs, face, arm, anywhere else.

This happened VERY few times in my life as a child. Probably less than you can count on 2 hands.

It wasn't violent. I'll never see it that way. I never feared my parents more than a child should fear a parent - and let's call it respecting their authority.

I challenge anyone to find how a few spankings in my life have affected my relationships.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It makes no sense to draw a line in the sand and not define what happens when you cross it. There are lines you do not cross as an adult. Some get you dead. Some lines get you dead if you cross them as a child. Consequences. Responsibility. I don't believe people ever truly understand what the those are until they experience the bad side of them.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I've had to answer the question, "when are you having kids" or "do you have any kids". And if I try to give a short answer, "we're not having kids" or "No, I don't have any kids," I am not left alone. It is always followed-up. "Why in the world wouldn't you have kids?" "Are you sterile?" The responses/questions I've gotten are insanely rude, and none of anyone's business. Yet I am always looked upon as a horrible person for this.

This, to me, is very funny. Because people ask me all the time why I would WANT to have them and when I try to give a short answer, they pepper me with even more questions, too. I don't know...maybe people just like to be all up in other people's business? And I am looked upon not as a horrible person, but as the village idiot. Like 'Don't you know that kids are expensive and sticky and needy?' 'Don't you know you'll have to give up partying?' 'Don't you know that kids are alot of work?'

Um, I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, people. I got the memo. We'll have some hard days ahead. Some days we will be tired, cranky, and frustrated. *shrug* We'll get over it and I think there will be lots more great ones to make up for it.

I have never been treated so rudely as I am now that I'm pregnant. And I lived in FRANCE, people!!! But, now everyone wants to know all my business, like do I plan to deliver vaginally. Um, why are strangers saying the word vagina to me? Seriously, why?

Again, it's not when people don't want children of their own that troubles me. I think that's a very fine plan for a great many people. It's when people don't want ME or anyone else to have children. And I assure you, there are plenty of people who feel that way.

I actually just dropped a friend for that very reason. When I started telling people I was pregnant, I told him. And he said 'If you have an abortion before Saturday, you could still make it to my party Saturday night, right?' Rarely am I struck speechless. I made up some excuse that I had to get off the phone. Then, a few months later, I phoned him when I found out it was twins and he said 'Well, now I bet you're wishing you had taken care of this problem when you could, right?'

I take that to mean he is off the emergency babysitting list.

[Steven]

When the government decided to put legislation into the family

it made a problem much worse,good parents cannot even

lightly spank their kids when they are doing something wrong

without getting in trouble with the authorities,government gave

too much power to the kids,and its almost like good parents cannot

punish their kids properly without getting in trouble themselves.

Of course this resulted from POS parents that took the

punishment way too far.

well see this is bullshit right here though Bro.

first - if I wanted to spank my kid I would. Spanking should be a last resort situation and not done out of anger - but its still an option - any kid whos smart enough to threaten to reprot their paretns is smart enough to recognize that once they are taken away by protective serviuces they get to live int he system with no home of their own, family of their own, room of their own, VCR of hter own, etc etc etc.

Next - say you are completely ant-spank.

thats cool.

that kid wants to wear certain clothes, have certain DVD's, music, food, free time, games, electronics, pets, hobbies, friends, bikes, sports, toys, etc etc etc. ALL of that shit you can control, every single bit of it.

its not a goverment issue - its a weak willed parental issue - Camille siad it best - parents dont parent anymore.