Thall Shalt Not Judge?

[phee]

More detail later:

But Judgements are made by everyone, they are niether good nor bad, they simply are.

There are some fine points already made in this thread... I will add to only this thus far.

Any opinion of any kind can be considered a judgement. I believe that judgements become a problem when they are used to harm others, and most of the time this is by accident. These accidents can also be refered to as false asssumptions, prejudice, jumping to conclusions.

[Fierce Critter]

Can I just say I agree with everything everybody has said?

And add...

I have a really, really uncanny ability to size-up people at first meet. Ask people who really, really know me well. My instincts at that first encounter are right probably well over 90% of the time.

That said, even though my track record is really good, I don't stop there. I get to know people. I sometimes delve really deep into people who seem really worthy of my oh-so-important time. And I let time and experience either prove or disprove my initial observation.

I have let myself be burned by people who I might have initially judged to be really high-up there on the "pass or don't pass" meter. Generally because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people fuck up. Hell, I do it all the time. And if someone fucks up with me, generally they get a 2nd chance. People have off days, right?

But if I get burned a 2nd time, it'll be really difficult to not end up judged as "unworthy of my time and attention." You only get a 3rd chance if you seem genuinely to recognize your fuck-up and atone.

But if you try to BS me and blow off the situation - asta la vista, you're terminated, fucker.

I think the way we judge is affected by our upbringing. I was brought up well. Tended to, cared for, disciplined, loved, cherished. My judgements are often based on the values I was brought up with. GOOD values. Not overly strict. I tend to judge others who display good values and an open mind as "pass." I generally judge people who have overly shit values and are tightassed and rigid as "fail."

I think that people who are raised in cruddy situations sometimes are instilled with values that form a different type of judgment. "She's a snobby bitch 'cause she won't go out with me just 'cause I think catching a porno film is a great first date." "You think you're better than me 'cause I drive a shit car, so fuck you." "I happen to think it's o.k. to slap my woman around when she talks back to me, and you're a wussy, intrusive mutherfucker 'cause you think that's wrong."

I judge ALL THE FUCKING TIME. But to me, the difference that matters is how you treat another person after having made that judgment. I used to be friendless because I had incredibly unreachable standards a person had to measure up to to be my friend. Over time, I realized I didn't have any fucking friends because nobody could possibly meet every single criteria on my list.

Eventually I realized my problem. And I learned quickly to loosen up and let people be who they are. My friend who was incredibly fun to be with would be obnoxious when she smoked pot. So I learned to not be in situations with her when she would choose to smoke. Those other times were great. Then there was the guy who liked to dress up as a woman. Listen - I'm straight. Women are great. But I don't want to fuck one. And when he would dress up, well, I wasn't interested in a night out with the girls, you know? But when we broke up, we stayed friends. And I showed him some make-up tips, too. Judgment: I can't date you. But damn if you don't make a hell of a hot, Latin babe. Let's go see a chick flick together.

And if the judgment is, "you suck. You hurt me. You do it willingly, knowingly, incessently" - you are out. I don't hold grudges. I don't have time for grudges. You're just out. You've been judged a waste of my time.

And I now judge that I've spent enough time on this post and I gotta move on.

[pharoh]

Wow I am kinda surpised a couple people just didn't "Jump right in" on this thread and went to town *shrugs*.

Well I am right there with everyone and FC especially.

1/4 threadjack now

One thing i would like to add though (And is a HUGE pet peave with me) is that people in general are also very hipacritical in the fact that they will go to extreme measures to shock people and then when they get a negative reaction from people that they are made cause they are being judged now and it wasn't in thier favor.

Just my 2 pennies

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Those people annoy me. Look, you showed up at a formal church dinner in an assless leather tux with bright pink hair and your date, who is on a leash, is in a clear evening gown... people are going to judge you for the twat you are.

[pharoh]

Those people annoy me. Look, you showed up at a formal church dinner in an assless leather tux with bright pink hair and your date, who is on a leash, is in a clear evening gown... people are going to judge you for the twat you are.

Exactly, thank you my friend

[Steven]

Can I just say I agree with everything everybody has said?

And add...

I have a really, really uncanny ability to size-up people at first meet. Ask people who really, really know me well. My instincts at that first encounter are right probably well over 90% of the time.

That said, even though my track record is really good, I don't stop there. I get to know people. I sometimes delve really deep into people who seem really worthy of my oh-so-important time. And I let time and experience either prove or disprove my initial observation.

I have let myself be burned by people who I might have initially judged to be really high-up there on the "pass or don't pass" meter. Generally because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people fuck up. Hell, I do it all the time. And if someone fucks up with me, generally they get a 2nd chance. People have off days, right?

But if I get burned a 2nd time, it'll be really difficult to not end up judged as "unworthy of my time and attention." You only get a 3rd chance if you seem genuinely to recognize your fuck-up and atone.

But if you try to BS me and blow off the situation - asta la vista, you're terminated, fucker.

I think the way we judge is affected by our upbringing. I was brought up well. Tended to, cared for, disciplined, loved, cherished. My judgements are often based on the values I was brought up with. GOOD values. Not overly strict. I tend to judge others who display good values and an open mind as "pass." I generally judge people who have overly shit values and are tightassed and rigid as "fail."

I think that people who are raised in cruddy situations sometimes are instilled with values that form a different type of judgment. "She's a snobby bitch 'cause she won't go out with me just 'cause I think catching a porno film is a great first date." "You think you're better than me 'cause I drive a shit car, so fuck you." "I happen to think it's o.k. to slap my woman around when she talks back to me, and you're a wussy, intrusive mutherfucker 'cause you think that's wrong."

I judge ALL THE FUCKING TIME. But to me, the difference that matters is how you treat another person after having made that judgment. I used to be friendless because I had incredibly unreachable standards a person had to measure up to to be my friend. Over time, I realized I didn't have any fucking friends because nobody could possibly meet every single criteria on my list.

Eventually I realized my problem. And I learned quickly to loosen up and let people be who they are. My friend who was incredibly fun to be with would be obnoxious when she smoked pot. So I learned to not be in situations with her when she would choose to smoke. Those other times were great. Then there was the guy who liked to dress up as a woman. Listen - I'm straight. Women are great. But I don't want to fuck one. And when he would dress up, well, I wasn't interested in a night out with the girls, you know? But when we broke up, we stayed friends. And I showed him some make-up tips, too. Judgment: I can't date you. But damn if you don't make a hell of a hot, Latin babe. Let's go see a chick flick together.

And if the judgment is, "you suck. You hurt me. You do it willingly, knowingly, incessently" - you are out. I don't hold grudges. I don't have time for grudges. You're just out. You've been judged a waste of my time.

And I now judge that I've spent enough time on this post and I gotta move on.

God dangit but that was good.

[Steven]

I think that the "don't judge me" mentality of this generation has blown the door wide open for the acceptence of mediocrity.

you know, rarely do I agree with you dude, but this could not have been more perfectly said.

Had it been me who said it - well that would prolly just be received as more of the same drama mongering shenanningens that Im so deeply loved for, but since it came from you I must send you two of these:

[Msterbeau]

you know, rarely do I agree with you dude, but this could not have been more perfectly said.

Had it been me who said it - well that would prolly just be received as more of the same drama mongering shenanningens that Im so deeply loved for, but since it came from you I must send you two of these:

Possibly. But there's a difference between judging and a critique. The latter is a necessary part of learning and growing. The former is a good way to make people feel shitty about themselves.

[creatureofthenyte]

My thoughts, I will add here...

Life is a series of choices.

Judging doesn't just happen, people freely make the choice to judge.

I'm curious though, how do you differentiate between judging and the forming of opinions ?

Are they one in the same, or is there a line between the two, that runs the risk of being blurred ?

Is there a difference between making a judgement and making an assessment ? Or are those one in the same ?

I think its important to learn enough about something or someone to get a clear impression, before forming an opinion or making a (hold on to yer hats! here comes the J word) judgement.

If you meet someone, talk to them and get to know alittle bit about them.

What you see on the outside may not be an indicator of what you get on the inside; i.e. : what their personality is like.

As for Me, I try to treat other people the way I like to be treated; with respect & dignity. That can become null and void if someone says/does something to show me that they are not deserving of said good treatment.

And for Me also, like Camille said, 2 strikes and yer gone.

My .5 cent.

[torn asunder]

i'm not really too clear on what the original topic was specifically getting at, but it seems to me that most everyone agrees that "judgement", in and of itself, isn't a problem. (judgement=opinion/decision) the problem lies in the condemnation of something based on that *personal* judgement. i judge lots of things, but try my best to not condemn anyone for what they do, because it's their life. if i don't agree with it, i'll behave in the manner i think *is* right. now, regarding internally/externally condemning them - is it wrong for me to think "that's just not right, this person's bad"? is it in any way harming them? not if i keep it to myself. the minute i communicate it to anyone else, it becomes an action against them, and at that point, in my opinion, it's out-of-line. rather than thinking of it as "judging someone" i think the phrase "passing judgement on someone" is more appropriate here, in defining the difference, but maybe that's just me...

[Hellion]

What kills me is how too many only look at a persons bad side,which IMO everyone has a bad side,it just varies in amount,let alone,the judging begins,unfortunately some of these people know that the people have good sides too,just they purposely ignore them.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think the original thought was along the lines of "Judge not lest ye be judged." Which I think is vastly misused and is closer in spirit to the topic the thread actually turned into. it should be something along the lines of "Dudes and Dudettes, it OK to have an opinion of someone else, their actions, their words or their style of life BUT! It's not cool for your to treat them any different than anyone else. If they are or not a good person is for ME to decide. Be cool to each other." but like.. Moses needed space and we got the abridged version.

[Steven]

Possibly. But there's a difference between judging and a critique. The latter is a necessary part of learning and growing. The former is a good way to make people feel shitty about themselves.

fair point dullynoted and worth consideration. and Mike, Im about to answer your question in a moment (what I was originally getting at)

[Steven]

in the most simplistic terms possible, I beleive each and every one of us have taken turns misunderstanding and even abusing this idea of judgement. including me. Ditto for prejudice and ditto fo jumping to conclusions. I know that I can be a bit colorful at times, but I also know i am wonderfully just like you all,and vice versa.

Mike made some fair points (all of us did) about where the line might be drawn, and even that ideal is rooted in his own personal code of ethics, which differ (not always) from my own. Personally I beleive that from time to time "some" friction is a necessary evil, as it (hopefully) gives way to reflection and it sometiems is the only way to force a turn of events or or even perhaps a series of painful self evaluations. The old biblical ideal of "Iron sharpening iron" works well for me here - it is not always a smooth and gentle process...specially in the warrior's world.

I also wanted to break away from the psuedo religeosity of the term itself by suggestign that we literally ALL take turns fumbling with the awkwardness of judgement - and yet we all love to throw it at one another as a dismissive device. Judgement can often be used as a nice blanket term, and its usually introduced from a self elevating position when it is chosen as a defensive or a condeming tool. I am accountable to you all in this regard, as are you to me, and some things are really not so clear, until we pick them apart in the way that we have done today.

the Mediocrity that St Masy suggested is in my opinion, completley real. A blanket result, from a blanket approach. I thought he was pretty insightful with that one simple statement. And strangely enough if I had to cling to just one idea today about this subject, I'd choose his, as I think it contains the most potential.

thank you everybody for your participation.

Seacrest - OUT