Thall Shalt Not Judge?

[Steven]

ah here we go folks, the JUDGEMENT thread.....here's where you tell me I'm full of shit, but don't judge me when you do so (figurative or literal, your choice).

Tell me about this thing called judgement, its roots, meaning, definition, and appropriate or misappropriate application thereof.....because I personally beleive that ALL people judge and thats its a monumental form of hypocricy to claim that one does not or should not.....but I'm not you, so have at it.

insert opinions here:

[ManicQueen]

I do it, you do it, we all do it.

I really don't think it's possible to not judge, not even a little tiny bit, regardless of what/who you're judging.

We usually don't even realize that we're doing it.. I don't half the time.

*shrugs*

It's a bad habit, I know.

[Steven]

I do it, you do it, we all do it.

I really don't think it's possible to not judge, not even a little tiny bit, regardless of what/who you're judging.

We usually don't even realize that we're doing it.. I don't have the time.

*shrugs*

It's a bad habit, I know.

OK so fair questions then:

Why is it a "habit"??

Is it really just a "habit"??

And if so (or not) what makes it "bad"???

[ManicQueen]

Maybe it's not a habit but more learned behavior? More human nature?

[Steven]

Maybe it's not a habit but more learned behavior? More human nature?

I'm leaning toward that human nature thingy...that its sort of like breathing...and yet its so controversial......and passionately thrown out there....I see it used just about every week in many topics of discussion.....I think its worth digging into because every one of us has an opinion on it.

[SuZQZ]

I also think it is human nature. I admit that I do it, I'd be lying if I said I didn't, but I try to do it in the sense of the below definition:

Judge - transitive verb

1: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises.

I try very hard to be open minded and not make presumptions or judgements especially without really gathering as much information as possible. I also try not to pass a judgement about anyone based on agreeing or disagreeing with their opinion, belief or view, unless they are trying to force their belief/opinion down my throat, then I judge them to be a pushy ass. There are certain circumstances where I am not sorry or ashamed to pass a judgement, like people who molest or hurt children. I judge them to be scum of the earth and I don't see waivering in that opinion any time soon.

[kellygrrrrrl]

those who have not sinned, please cast the 1st stone....

[phee]

More detail later:

But Judgements are made by everyone, they are niether good nor bad, they simply are.

[Steven]

those who have not sinned, please cast the 1st stone....

I friggen love this Grrrrl.....

[SuZQZ]

More detail later:

But Judgements are made by everyone, they are niether good nor bad, they simply are.

Such simplicity, so perfectly phrased.

[Steven]

Judge - transitive verb

1: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises.

ultimately were talking about forming an opinion then...

"thalt shall not form an opinion...." nope, doesent work for me, sounds downright dumb.

"how DARE you form an opinion about me!" nope....that seems silly too.....

"there are some VERY opinionated people on this board..." seems almost pointless to say given that that was just a statement of an opinion....thus criticising opinion makers thwartign an opinion with another opinion...

"Who are YOU to haven an opinion on such and such...." hmmm....the silliness continues....I am one of YOU of course, a fellow opinion maker...

why is it then, that we place a such negative stigma on basic, needful, human behaviour?

because its not PC?

because we might (oh the horror) OFFEND somebody?

because it smells suspisciously of some sort of absolute thinking as opposed to relative processing where nobody has to REALLY declare a position?

or is it simply because that opinion opposes our own, and so we therefore become rather selective when we bust out with the Judgment card?

I (me, Steven) am opinionated like a mutherfukker.

and even proudly so because I dont ask permission to speak my mind or test the collective waters prior to dipping my toe in transparency , I know who I am and why I feel or beleive the way that i do, much like all of you....

but its not a statement of superiority, nor a demand for your concession, when I do opinionate - when I do judge. And in so saying, and in your reading this and being led one way or the other, you have just judged me. And that's fine with me man, it really is - stand where you will.

moving on.....who else has an opinion on what I just said?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think you are poking at two different subjects with the same stick. See, there is the everyday judgment that people do... technically we "judge" whats best for dinner... but thats not the same thing.

"Thou shalt not Judge" is a bit deeper into the nest... the heart, so to speak, of the matter... could be better phrased as "Thou shalt not treat someone differently than everyone else solely based on some preconceived, if not ill conceived, pre-judgment of said person."

[Steven]

I think you are poking at two different subjects with the same stick. See, there is the everyday judgment that people do... technically we "judge" whats best for dinner... but thats not the same thing.

"Thou shalt not Judge" is a bit deeper into the nest... the heart, so to speak, of the matter... could be better phrased as "Thou shalt not treat someone differently than everyone else solely based on some preconceived, if not ill conceived, pre-judgment of said person."

Aha!!!

this is the best response so far....

again I ask: who is guilty? (I've got my hand raised)

[Msterbeau]

I think you are poking at two different subjects with the same stick. See, there is the everyday judgment that people do... technically we "judge" whats best for dinner... but thats not the same thing.

"Thou shalt not Judge" is a bit deeper into the nest... the heart, so to speak, of the matter... could be better phrased as "Thou shalt not treat someone differently than everyone else solely based on some preconceived conceived, if not ill conceived, pre-judgment of said person."

I agree. We all do the later because we forget to consider that we haven't taken the time to understand the person's situation. Sometimes we do it because we don't want to. It's a lot easier to pass judgment based on your own belief system then to learn the other person's... and therefore understand why they act the way they do.

[Hellion]

Judgeing on peoples actions I think is the best way

for example someone who steals,spreads false accusations,

or tries to ruin someone elses reputation should be judged as as asshole.

Someone who does no harm to anyone and keeps to themselves should not be judged,IMO.

Also judgeing people on their status and age I think is total bs.

But what can you expect from most peole these days.

Only actions should be the only way to judge anyone,not by status,or age,it gets really old.

[Steven]

I agree. We all do the later because we forget to consider that we haven't taken the time to understand the person's situation. Sometimes we do it because we don't want to. It's a lot easier to pass judgment based on your own belief system then to learn the other person's... and therefore understand why they act the way they do.

is it worth then, doing a little investigating before deciding to size somebody up? maybe ask somebody a question or two....?

[Msterbeau]

is it worth then, doing a little investigating before deciding to size somebody up? maybe ask somebody a question or two....?

Seems reasonable, doesn't it? I think one issue to consider is that the mood of the judger is variable and they may not have the patience or temperament at that time to consider doing so. It's a fight between considerateness and raw emotion. I think we know which often wins. It's something that parents need to teach, as best they can. Some of us can learn... Some are so emotion-based that I'm pretty sure it's futile. One issue facing Americans specifically is that "Shooting from the hip" is so glorified in our culture. Fuck asking the guy... just size him up by instinct and let er rip.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

One issue facing Americans specifically is that "Shooting from the hip" is so glorified in our culture. Fuck asking the guy... just size him up by instinct and let er rip.

I don't think it's just an American thing to do... an American phrase, yes, but not an American owned way of acting. Hence the term, with a heavy French accent "Stupid American"

[Steven]

Seems reasonable, doesn't it? I think one issue to consider is that the mood of the judger is variable and they may not have the patience or temperament at that time to consider doing so. It's a fight between considerateness and raw emotion. I think we know which often wins. It's something that parents need to teach, as best they can. Some of us can learn... Some are so emotion-based that I'm pretty sure it's futile. One issue facing Americans specifically is that "Shooting from the hip" is so glorified in our culture. Fuck asking the guy... just size him up by instinct and let er rip.

I thought this was a great response Marc but the shooting from the hip glorification honestly confused me....its been my impression over the years (and I'm just some guy) that we do the exact opposite - we tip toe around the obvious and we're uncomfortable with deeper connection.....

now I'm guilty (big suprise there) of hipshots. yes.

but I also ask alot of questions. I have also many times made offers akin to "ask me anythign you want - I'll tell you..."

and I make myself available personally with my time and resources.

some people in here know me onscreen, some people in here know what its like to look in my eyes when I speak, some people know both the good and the bad in me up close.

what yoru talkign about, or so it seems to me, is an effort at balance, somethign I applaud.

[Msterbeau]

I don't think it's just an American thing to do... an American phrase, yes, but not an American owned way of acting. Hence the term, with a heavy French accent "Stupid American"

Not just American... but it seems more glorified here then anywhere else. We're proud to do it. Others just do it.

And granted... in certain situations, the ability to size things up and make a quick decision is VERY beneficial.

[Steven]

And granted... in certain situations, the ability to size things up and make a quick decision is VERY beneficial.

he's getting warmer...

[Msterbeau]

I thought this was a great response Marc but the shooting from the hip glorification honestly confused me....its been my impression over the years (and I'm just some guy) that we do the exact opposite - we tip toe around the obvious and we're uncomfortable with deeper connection.....

now I'm guilty (big suprise there) of hipshots. yes.

but I also ask alot of questions. I have also many times made offers akin to "ask me anythign you want - I'll tell you..."

and I make myself available personally with my time and resources.

some people in here know me onscreen, some people in here know what its like to look in my eyes when I speak, some people know both the good and the bad in me up close.

what yoru talkign about, or so it seems to me, is an effort at balance, somethign I applaud.

The American thing... You may be right ... in more recent years. Maybe I'm showing my age? Heh.

[Steven]

The American thing... You may be right ... in more recent years. Maybe I'm showing my age? Heh.

your not the only one Bro.

and even THAT (age and experience) factors in as well when it comes to making judgments...

[Steven]

And granted... in certain situations, the ability to size things up and make a quick decision is VERY beneficial.

dangit I forgot to add this point....

lifestyles also factor in.

I am constantly overworked and underslept. I teach, I council, I mentor in both one on one situations and in small group situations. There is also alot of risk in my personal lifestyle and in the situations I may present myself in.....I have to make quick decisions - important, quick decisions, and I have to be able to trust my gut when sizing something or someone up.

I'm not always right. every once in awhile I'm terribly off. but most of the time I'm pretty close to the core issue that I beleive I recognize.

that can come off as cocky, arrogant, dismissive, even controlling. Unless you know me.

[Msterbeau]

I would tell you about the things

They put me through

The pain Ive been subjected to

But the lord himself would blush

The countless feasts laid at my feet

Forbidden fruits for me to eat

But I think your pulse would start to rush

Now Im not looking for absolution

Forgiveness for the things I do

But before you come to any conclusions

Try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

Youll stumble in my footsteps

Keep the same appointments I kept

If you try walking in my shoes

If you try walking in my shoes

Morality would frown upon

Decency look down upon

The scapegoat fates made of me

But I promise you, my judge and jurors

My intentions couldnt have been purer

My case is easy to see

Im not looking for a clearer conscience

Peace of mind after what Ive been through

And before we talk of repentance

Try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

Youll stumble in my footsteps

Keep the same appointments I kept

If you try walking in my shoes

If you try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

Now Im not looking for absolution

Forgiveness for the things I do

But before you come to any conclusions

Try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

Youll stumble in my footsteps

Keep the same appointments I kept

If you try walking in my shoes

Now Im not looking for absolution

Forgiveness for the things I do

But before you come to any conclusions

Try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

Youll stumble in my footsteps

Keep the same appointments I kept

If you try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes

If you try walking in my shoes

Try walking in my shoes