War and Peace in the middle east

[Kit Kat P]

very well said Steven

[Destroit]

You'd be amazed at what "rich" is over there. It doesn't matter what neighbors he has, because it's just like the States. Rich people live in the same area of town, and the only thing that they do differently, is the fact that they group together, and still help eachother out.

These crazy radicals don't care what your worth. They see a grown man, walking down a street, they will take him. They don't care about his worth. They don't at all.

Economic opportunity, Education, and the Fair Trade you speak of, will not end it. It will only feed into what the radicals can steal back from them.

The only way to end this, is to HELP them create their own strong army, and HELP get them the best damn police around. Working side by side with a country that can not stand on it's own two feet. Until only then, can we really solve this so called "war".

You are so damn right I could hump your leg right now. I'll save that for CC next time.

Yeah also, for whomever said that rich people have fewer children uhmm....that's bullshit. In their culture anyway. For their culture (much like Catholism) you are VALIDATED for having more children, it is held HIGHER over there and in a country where they don't automatically get three meals a day rich people have MORE kids as a status symbol. Why? Because they're RICH and can afford them.

In America we walk down the street listening to our iPod drinking our Starbucks to show our superiority. Over there, they have tons of kids.

Makes sense, no?

[Steven]

You are so damn right I could hump your leg right now. I'll save that for CC next time.

Yeah also, for whomever said that rich people have fewer children uhmm....that's bullshit. In their culture anyway. For their culture (much like Catholism) you are VALIDATED for having more children, it is held HIGHER over there and in a country where they don't automatically get three meals a day rich people have MORE kids as a status symbol. Why? Because they're RICH and can afford them.

In America we walk down the street listening to our iPod drinking our Starbucks to show our superiority. Over there, they have tons of kids.

Makes sense, no?

thats why I told Phee to get in line, had nothing to do with her ample bosoms.....had everything to do with her having been there and experiencing it first hand....

and I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoints on the abundence of the fruit of the womb....I almost chocked on my snicker when ttgoreh said the rich folk had fewer children.

[Destroit]

thats why I told Phee to get in line, had nothing to do with her ample bosoms.....had everything to do with her having been there and experiencing it first hand....

and I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoints on the abundence of the fruit of the womb....I almost chocked on my snicker when ttgoreh said the rich folk had fewer children.

Yes, if he were talking about America or another Western (or Eastern also, places like China and Japan for instance) nation it may have been more accurate, but to say that about a Muslim nation with the way their culture is just is generally incorrect. They wear their babies like badges of pride and over there the more the merrier (also goes hand in hand with men who have more than one wife, more than one equals more babies and more status. The bigger the better over there and you need to be pretty damn rich to pull it all off)

[Steven]

I just think that nothing new has been stated in many many years when it comes to the middle east in general.

all of these theories, based in western philosophy, with all the money and firepower in the world has never brought stability to this area, and so to hear a somewhat smug dissertation on what needs to take place there is ludicrous at best.

[Head Wreck]

yep this is 100% domestic abuse and nothing to do with 1970's and 1980's American foreign policy on fighting communism (which is one of MANY underlying causes to other regions).

its just something in the water down there

[Fierce Critter]

I could kiss you Candy.

get in line

Indeed

get thee behind me Phee

Well, I'll kiss Candy. But I won't fuck her.

Tra la la la laaaaaa...

[CandyQuackenbush]

Awe! Thanks for all of the love!

[odims_sphere]

I could kiss you Candy.

get in line

Indeed

get thee behind me Phee

Well, I'll kiss Candy. But I won't fuck her.

Tra la la la laaaaaa...

You all know I can see all this right? ;o)

[CandyQuackenbush]

You all know I can see all this right? ;o)

Yes, but you work until 1930, and won't be home til 2015... so what can you see again???

[ttogreh]

As is the usual case, I am in the minority when it comes to intellectual points of view. I have grown quite accustomed to this situation, and have learned a few things on my life's journey to help me cope with this.

Gaf and Steven, you are both emotionally wedded to your points of view. I won't ever be able to convince you to think critically about the points I bring up, because, well, I am the one bringing them up, and you have already made your minds up about what exactly I am.

However, in the miasma of ideology and cynicism that has sprouted from your fingertips, Steven, I would like to address one point you have alluded to about me. You really need to stay away from the logical fallacies of the excluded middle, the straw man, and in this case, the ad hominem.

Of course, you won't, because I am the one giving the advice, and well, why listen to someone like me, right?

While I was 12 to 14, my family was breaking up. As could be expected, I was a little down. I was prescribed the psychoactive drug known as "prozac". When things calmed down, wa-hey... I started feeling better, and I slowly was weaned off of this drug.

When I was about to graduate from high school, I decided to join the Navy. I was ready to sign, but unfortunately, due to two years of swallowing green and white pills, I was rejected from serving my nation. It was the darkest point in my young life up to that point. I could not serve the nation that had given me so much, through no direct fault of my own.

Now, several years later, a self-assured man who WAS able to serve his nation has made an assumption about my willingness to stand up and put my life in harm's way, so that others will not need to. He has reminded me of my inadequacy as a citizen, and of the hurt and pain that I went through when I could not give back to my country.

Thank you, Steven. Thank you so much for exposing the motivations of your point of view to all of us, and helping me to revisit one of the most painful memories of my life. Thank you for giving me a legitimate reason to resent you.

Now, Candy... the hell of it is, we are both right. Economic opportunity, education, and fair trade means nothing without a secure environment. I was focusing on one side of the same coin, and you were focusing on the obverse. Once again, I sincerely thank you for your military service.

[Destroit]

You all know I can see all this right? ;o)

My goodness, you left out the part about me humping her leg!!

You'll have to get a stick and beat us all away from your hot girlfriend when you get home, just because she was right.

If this is a hassle to you, tell her to be incorrect more often

[CandyQuackenbush]

As is the usual case, I am in the minority when it comes to intellectual points of view. I have grown quite accustomed to this situation, and have learned a few things on my life's journey to help me cope with this.Gaf and Steven, you are both emotionally wedded to your points of view. I won't ever be able to convince you to think critically about the points I bring up, because, well, I am the one bringing them up, and you have already made your minds up about what exactly I am.However, in the miasma of ideology and cynicism that has sprouted from your fingertips, Steven, I would like to address one point you have alluded to about me. You really need to stay away from the logical fallacies of the excluded middle, the straw man, and in this case, the ad hominem.Of course, you won't, because I am the one giving the advice, and well, why listen to someone like me, right?While I was 12 to 14, my family was breaking up. As could be expected, I was a little down. I was prescribed the psychoactive drug known as "prozac". When things calmed down, wa-hey... I started feeling better, and I slowly was weaned off of this drug.When I was about to graduate from high school, I decided to join the Navy. I was ready to sign, but unfortunately, due to two years of swallowing green and white pills, I was rejected from serving my nation. It was the darkest point in my young life up to that point. I could not serve the nation that had given me so much, through no direct fault of my own.Now, several years later, a self-assured man who WAS able to serve his nation has made an assumption about my willingness to stand up and put my life in harm's way, so that others will not need to. He has reminded me of my inadequacy as a citizen, and of the hurt and pain that I went through when I could not give back to my country.Thank you, Steven. Thank you so much for exposing the motivations of your point of view to all of us, and helping me to revisit one of the most painful memories of my life. Thank you for giving me a legitimate reason to resent you.Now, Candy... the hell of it is, we are both right. Economic opportunity, education, and fair trade means nothing without a secure environment. I was focusing on one side of the same coin, and you were focusing on the obverse. Once again, I sincerely thank you for your military service.

I think that when you start a topic that will possibly involve the military, you are going to get my views. However, you brought up that your parents spilt when you where 12-14 years old, well I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic on hand.

Now you say that we are both right, but in another post, you said that if the economic opportunity, education and fair trade would help end the war, but when I bring correct and valid views to the table, you seem to take my side.The sad thing about this war is that there is no coin. There is only one way to look at it, and it involves the military.We cannot control any of the 3 hopes posted above. All we can do is teach them to fight for the next day. Guide them to take control of their cities and one day, control their country as a whole.

[ttogreh]

Candy, when the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, you tend to look at every problem as a nail. Nuance and subtlety are not very useful tools while in a foxhole. However, from the comfort of home with the luxury of distance and time, nuance and subtlety are vital to the bigger picture.

You cannot hope to create a secure environment without a hope for economic and social equity. You cannot hope to create economic and social equity without a secure environment. Black and white, "this is the way, truth, and light" thinking gets people killed.

[odims_sphere]

Candy, when the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, you tend to look at every problem as a nail. Nuance and subtlety are not very useful tools while in a foxhole. However, from the comfort of home with the luxury of distance and time, nuance and subtlety are vital to the bigger picture.

You cannot hope to create a secure environment without a hope for economic and social equity. You cannot hope to create economic and social equity without a secure environment. Black and white, "this is the way, truth, and light" thinking gets people killed.

So, uhh you're saying that to stop millitant extremists who strap explosives to their own children and Kill as many people as possible no matter who they are as long as speak english requires nuance and subtlety? I have to say you seem to be living in a dream world similar to Plato's Eutopia. You're theroys are pretty and wonderful on paper, however the REALITY of it is they will kill you no matter what until every last one of them is dead. The only thing we can do is try and stay one step ahead. Superior tactics and superior firepower.

[ttogreh]

Odim, It's Utopia, which means "no place", and it was popularized by Sir Thomas More, not Plato. Plato wrote "The Republic".

If you are going to use ad hominems, at least have the decency to get the insult correct.

[odims_sphere]

Odim, It's Utopia, which means "no place", and it was popularized by Sir Thomas More, not Plato. Plato wrote "The Republic".

If you are going to use ad hominems, at least have the decency to get the insult correct.

Wasn't an insult, rather an observation, but if you wat to argue semantics and spelling then you are MUCH more of a man than I, please go on....

[CandyQuackenbush]

Odim, It's Utopia, which means "no place", and it was popularized by Sir Thomas More, not Plato. Plato wrote "The Republic".

If you are going to use ad hominems, at least have the decency to get the insult correct.

I really think that you should sit down, read up on the Middle East, then post.

Seriously, you should. Because you really don't know what you are talking about, and you are blowing everything out of the water.

You are turning a mole hill into a mountain. Like I said, unless you have been there, then you hold no place telling Odims and I anything about war, or anything about the Middle East and it's culture.

[ttogreh]

Wasn't an insult, rather an observation, but if you wat to argue semantics and spelling then you are MUCH more of a man than I, please go on....

What's really funny is that in the same sentence you tried to deny that you were attacking the messenger, and then attacked the messenger.

I have spent actual months, perhaps years, of my life defending my ideas on internet forums. I have learned that sarcasm, ad hominems, and other logical fallacies rarely work to the advantage of the user. Do be careful whence you tread, Odim.

[odims_sphere]

What's really funny is that in the same sentence you tried to deny that you were attacking the messenger, and then attacked the messenger.

I have spent actual months, perhaps years, of my life defending my ideas on internet forums. I have learned that sarcasm, ad hominems, and other logical fallacies rarely work to the advantage of the user. Do be careful whence you tread, Odim.

Noted and again thank you for pointing out my flaws... Please continue.

[ttogreh]

Candy, he was defending you, and now you are defending him. It's all rather silly, because you are quite right, a militant extremist can blow up any market that any marine has helped build.

However, a militant extremist cannot, and never will, be able to destroy the IDEA that a market is, if the people are committed to that idea.

Please, Candy, stop trying to win an argument in which you have already won... and think about what I am trying to say...

[CandyQuackenbush]

Candy, he was defending you, and now you are defending him. It's all rather silly, because you are quite right, a militant extremist can blow up any market that any marine has helped build.

However, a militant extremist cannot, and never will, be able to destroy the IDEA that a market is, if the people are committed to that idea.

Please, Candy, stop trying to win an argument in which you have already won... and think about what I am trying to say...

I have thought of what you had to say, and what you have to say holds no meaning to me.

[ttogreh]

Either you are lying to me, or I am not conveying my point in an adequate manner, Candy. Either option saddens me.

[Fierce Critter]

Either you are lying to me, or I am not conveying my point in an adequate manner, Candy.

I'm gonna opt for the latter. Because through all of this, I'm not getting what you're trying to say, either.

[Destroit]

Candy, he was defending you, and now you are defending him. It's all rather silly, because you are quite right, a militant extremist can blow up any market that any marine has helped build.

However, a militant extremist cannot, and never will, be able to destroy the IDEA that a market is, if the people are committed to that idea.

Please, Candy, stop trying to win an argument in which you have already won... and think about what I am trying to say...

So...you're saying a militant extremist cannot destroy an idea because it isn't physical?

That's what I get out of that sentence, but I fail to see how that works because in my experience ideas are much easier targets than physical structures. Physical structures require physical people willing to die being blown up running into them, along with bomb material, plans, etc. You know...stuff.

Ideas can be blown away easily ESPECIALLY by extremists, all it takes is some persuasiveness, con artistry, and some convincing brain washing.

Just look at Jonestown. One minute they're in Utopia in a fully functionion commune where everyone is pulling their own weight and the next minute they're all laying out on the lawn DEAD just because one single man told them to drink the kool-aid.

I fail to see how ideas are more sturdy than structures....

Ideas are very contagious AND very fragile all at the same time, depending on the circumstance and the person doing the presenting/convincing.

But like I said, if I misunderstood your post, I'm sorry then. If I missed your point with that I'm sorry, like FC and Candy said, I'm having a little difficulty following your point here.