Gun Control

[jadnifer]

I say Yay on the gun control.

I say this because if they didnt have background checks you would have felons and crazy people running around with guns.

I feel if you have been convicted of a felony or you have a mental disorder that you should not a right to own a firearm.

I say the convicted felons because why the hell would you give someone that has already hurt someone or committed another serious crime a way to go out and do it again?

I say people with mental disorders because you really dont know what that persons mental status is going to be at any particular given time and it wouldnt be good for them to have a firearm.

Just how I feel about the subject.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Felons and Crazy people do run aorund with guns.

They steal them.

It takes some research, because the major newspapers never do the stories.. but there have been many cases of shooting sprees getting stopped by people who were lawfully careing thier hand gun.

Oh wait... there was that church shoting a few weeks ago... and two private citizens.. one acting as bait.. and the other with her side arm.. stopped him...

btw.. he stole that rifle.

[know_buddy_kares]

I'm extremely against gun control. It's my opinion to feel this way... what would be more likely the situation for you?

You have a gun, whatever your motivation may be, you are going to go and try to use your fire arm to commence harm on a store...

the store to your left likely doesn't have anyone else with guns

the store on your right likely does have people carrying guns.

Wich one are you gonna pick?

[Msterbeau]

I think if people can't keep the gun on the target, they should use two hands.

Oh. Not that kind of gun control.

[know_buddy_kares]

I think if people can't keep the gun on the target, they should use two hands.

Oh. Not that kind of gun control.

depends on what you deem as a "target" i suppose...

though I know I see this from a different perspective from most people, most "targets" I'm trained for are likely to shoot back.

[Fierce Critter]

I see no problem with background checks. I'm not nearly as "gun-control happy" as I once was. I do believe in the right to bear arms.

But I don't think - if a person is a serious, responsible gun-wanter/owner/handler - they would have a problem with some background checks.

[jadnifer]

I see no problem with background checks. I'm not nearly as "gun-control happy" as I once was. I do believe in the right to bear arms.

But I don't think - if a person is a serious, responsible gun-wanter/owner/handler - they would have a problem with some background checks.

Quite right. I'm not saying in all cases, but a lot, people are against something because in this case if a background check was done on them, they would find something that would keep them from buying a gun.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

A bounced check for example.

[jadnifer]

I dont think that a bounced check could keep someone from getting a gun, would it?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Depends on the amount of the check.. if it was over $200, yes as that a felony.

[jadnifer]

Well I guess that there are different types of felonies....writing a bad check I dont think should keep someone from buying a gun

[ttogreh]

Ok. Big picture, people. We live in a country with eighty million KNOWN gun owners with 200 million guns. More people die on our highways than die by firearms.

Gun control, reasonable gun control... ok. However, that should be regulated by state law, and the federal government should keep their noses out of it.

[phee]

The example of the stolen guns is very good.... if the guns were not there to be stolen...

[ttogreh]

Phee, and if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass along the ground.

We live in a world and a country where firearms are woven into the tapestry of life. If guns are outlawed, onyl outlaws will have guns.

[know_buddy_kares]

Depends on the amount of the check.. if it was over $200, yes as that a felony.

gaf we disagree on alot of things concerning politics but i could fucking hug you right now. I fully agree with what you're Implying at.

[nilhil_glory]

if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass along the ground.

im mixed against it

personally i think its more frightining to point a compound bow at someones head instead of a pistol especially

when the arrow has a 4 razor tip

and especially x2 if its a fred bear brand bow, becouse then all will know that you alone have the power of the noodge, =)

in all seriouseness

our implements now are good, if someone wanted to kill you or rob you that bad

theyd stab you if we didnt have guns.

and even so

its REALLY easy to buy a machete at miejers

[Head Wreck]

i live in a very anti firearm country (hell they just banned the fake ones even!) and every ban i have seen gun crime rises up a notch and the taboo with firearms goes up) and i do believe that education and controll should be used, but more on education on the RESPONSIBILITIES of firearms, not just their rights, rights and responsibilities are very important and come hand in hand with most things.

lock that firearm up, heck put a trigger lock on it too. makes it harder for firearm to be nicked, and if a gun owner isnt responsible enough simply to lock them up after use does that person have the responsibilities needed to keep firearms crime down?

what about all those cases where the parents have an anti-social kid and use firearms as a baby sitter (maybe if they paid more attention the kid wouldn't be in that state?)

i can see the need for firearms in the US, but in the UK i don't really see any use outside of agriculture and pest control, why do people need a .338 over here where the largest game is rabbit, possibly duck.

[n0Mad]

The example of the stolen guns is very good.... if the guns were not there to be stolen...

A majority of stolen firearms used in crimes are taken from law enforcement. A few years ago, the FBI "lost" a cache of a couple thousand firearms only to have many of them turn up being used in burglaries, murders, and such. A black market warehouse was raided and a few hundred of those FBI guns were recovered but many are still MIA. Yeah, so damn the military, FBI, and police for having those pesky weapons. We should ban them from possessing firearms and leave them in the hands of responsible citizens.

in all seriouseness

our implements now are good, if someone wanted to kill you or rob you that bad

theyd stab you if we didnt have guns.

and even so

its REALLY easy to buy a machete at miejers

Ever hear of the gang MS-13? They originated in Los Angeles and southern California but are quickly spreading all around the nation. Just do a You-Tube search on MS-13 and you'll find plenty of news clips about this gang. They are extremely vicious. Here's a blurb about them taken from another site:

"Highly organized, dealing in drugs, extortion & prostitution. As proof of their ruthlessness, they're inclined to murder without warning nor reason!! Quite often their weapons of choice, interestly, are "machete's"! Primative, maybe, but horrifically effective. Members have been known to attack unknowing crowds of innocent people, just as an example of might."

Machetes don't fire bullets but they can kill just as effectively. And since California has extremely strong gun control (with San Fransisco banning handguns outright) and is very restrictive on concealed carry, there's nothing honest citizens can do to protect themselves. It takes police on average 7-20 minutes to respond to a call. By then your family will be hacked to pieces and there's nothing you can do to stop them. Wish you had a gun, huh? CCW sound like a good idea?

Oh, and guess what? The Supreme Court has ruled that the police are under no obligation to respond to a call at all. So that 7-20 minute waiting period may turn into forever. You are responsible for your own protection. The only thing the police do is track down the criminal after the crime has already been committed.

i can see the need for firearms in the US, but in the UK i don't really see any use outside of agriculture and pest control, why do people need a .338 over here where the largest game is rabbit, possibly duck.

One of the biggest errors the lobby for gun freedom made was to push the "We need them for hunting" issue. That's what allowed the liberals to push through the assault weapon ban in the first place saying that they're not needed for hunting. That's true but hunting be damned. The US Code states that all men ages 17-45 (and with the 14th Amendment "men" also means women and blacks) are required to own a weapon of the type used by the military at the time. That means it's actually a federal law that we must own assault weapons. But hey, if the 2nd Amendment can be infringed, why not the US Code as well.

The purpose of private citizen firearm ownership is for protection of self and home from all threats foreign and domestic. That ranges anywhere from some burglar trying to steal your TV, to gang-bangers trying to rape your sister, to a foreign military marching down your street, to your own government trying to restrict your liberties. And a hunting rifle won't do much against some of those. I don't need an M4 or an MP5 to hunt deer, but I'd sure like to have some anyway just in case some of those major foreign or domestic threats become a reality. I hope they never do in my lifetime, or anyone's lifetime, but a good Boy Scout should "Be Prepared".

Better to have it an not need it, then need it and not have it.

[Head Wreck]

indeed, thats why i see the right to have one in the US.

but the government has got bigger and badder than the latest individual weapon systems rolling out of FN, H&K, Colt, and IMI.

and i must admit, though i dont see the need. part of my curiosity is to find out what a .455 webley was like, how much kick was there to the .303 Enfield No3, just how accurate compared to the L85A1 was the L1A1.

almost all but the Enfield are banned firearms here, fully automatics were banned in 1935 here, so how do M10s and Croatian Micro EUROs turn up again and again in yardies arsenals? they were produced well after 1935

[nilhil_glory]

smuggiling is very very easy if you have a boat or even motorcylce

there are certain points along the american border that you can just stroll across on iether side

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

HW, just so you know... an Enfield M1917 kicks like a pissed off mule but with practice and calm winds you can dot an eye at 1000yards. Yes, eye. The No. 3 didn;t have as much range or kick.. but could still drop just about anything you aim at.

I have a M1917 and a buddy has a No. 3

[Head Wreck]

smuggiling is very very easy if you have a boat or even motorcylce

there are certain points along the american border that you can just stroll across on iether side

yes byt the UK is an island. and its kind of hard getting anything by the royal navy or HM revenue and customs.

i take it the M1917 is the same calibre as the springfield 1903s?

both calibres are monstrous compared to what is nato spec now.

now a boys rifle sounds fun. .55. and reading a little into it. it seems we had the same problem then as we do with the americans

or rather now its just national air guard...

[n0Mad]

fully automatics were banned in 1935 here, so how do M10s and Croatian Micro EUROs turn up again and again in yardies arsenals? they were produced well after 1935

That's because gun control works. *cough*

To get a Glock in Michigan, I have to go to the gun store, figure out which one I want (let's just say a Glock 17 'cuz it's the most prolific), and have them hold it for me. Then I have to go to the County Clerks and get a purchase permit for the Glock 17 and only the Glock 17 with the specified serial number. To get the permit, I need to be finger printed and background checked. After approval and getting the permit I have 7 days to go back to the gun store and purchase said Glock before the permit expires. After the purchase, I then have 14 days to go to the Sheriff's office to have a safety check and registration performed. Then I'm completely legal. Of course, having a CCW cuts out several of those steps but it was an even larger pain getting the CCW. All in all it would cost me about $600-$700.

Now, for comparison ... to get a fully automatic Uzi I can make one phone call and get the number to a black market contact. Yes, I do know a guy who knows a guy and no, I'm not going to tell you who. Once I get that number I set up an appointment. I tell the guy what I want and give him about $400-$500 cash. About 4 days later I get a call and another appointment is set up. I get the Uzi with no serial number and maybe even a few hand grenades for being such a good customer. (No, this is not hypothetical. I met a guy who was trying to sell me grenades stolen from the military. I said thanks but no thanks. The black market is real and it's not hard to find. And no, it wasn't a sting. My original major was law enforcement and I trained to be a cop. I know the good guys and work with them on occasion. I just decided that it wasn't the line of work for me.)

It's cheaper, faster, and easier to go through the black market and get illegal firearms than it is to follow the law and be legit. Heck, drugs have been illegal for decades yet I bet many of you have some right now. And even if you don't do drugs I bet you know a person who knows a person who could get some good stuff for cheap.

Gun control doesn't stop criminals. All it does is stop law abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves against those criminals. Oh, and all those mass shootings that you hear about in the news (Virginia Tech, Mall in Omaha, Trolley Square), every single one of them happened in a "Gun Free Zone". Didn't stop the bad guy now did it? What it did do is stop a CCW holder from stopping the rampage. I can give you first person narrative from people who watched innocents get slaughtered and were helpless to stop it because they followed the law and left their firearm locked up safe instead of carrying it in a "Gun Free Zone", er, "Unarmed Victim Zone".

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I fucking love you.

[Reaper]

Might as well have the right to bear arms. Criminals will get them no matter which way you figure it. Protect yourself period.