Universal Health Care

[jadnifer]

I am nay for universal health care because of the fact that yes we can go to doctor when we need to but when it really comes down to life and death situations is when the shit hits the fan.

For example, they have universal health care in Canada. One of my relatives had a heart condition and needed an operation but they would only let him have it done at a hospital that was 400 miles away and he had to be put on a list because this doctor was booked for the next 6 months. He was also put at the bottom of the list because he was an older man.

He went to go put a bread sized plastic bag in the garbage bucket outside one night, walked back in the house, and fell over dead.

The hospital called 2 hours after he died and told his wife to have him at the hospital the next day for the operation.

So hows that for good health care???

Something that is so important and you have to be put on a list???

F**K THAT!!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I'm all for it...

I'm just not willing to give 60% of my income to it just to turn around and go to some other country to get treatment. It's not working well in Canada, England or France.... it's not going ot work here.

[Msterbeau]

I am nay for universal health care because of the fact that yes we can go to doctor when we need to but when it really comes down to life and death situations is when the shit hits the fan.

For example, they have universal health care in Canada. One of my relatives had a heart condition and needed an operation but they would only let him have it done at a hospital that was 400 miles away and he had to be put on a list because this doctor was booked for the next 6 months. He was also put at the bottom of the list because he was an older man.

He went to go put a bread sized plastic bag in the garbage bucket outside one night, walked back in the house, and fell over dead.

The hospital called 2 hours after he died and told his wife to have him at the hospital the next day for the operation.

So hows that for good health care???

Something that is so important and you have to be put on a list???

F**K THAT!!

Once again. The human element isn't considered enough. Doctors go through a LOT of schooling. They expect to be paid well. They should be. A quick search suggests that Canadian salaries are below $100K while in the US the are generally above $150K. Who'd want to be a doctor then? Shortage ensues... system goes to shit.

Universal health care SHOULD BE. People shouldn't have to worry about something like that. I could live without a lot of other government grants, programs and pork barrel spending, if we could have this.

It's not like ours is a ton better anymore. HMO's deny people procedures because of cost. General practitioners are getting scarcer because managed health care doesn't pay them nearly as well as a specialist makes. Hospitals are closing because the uninsured go there for service and but their costs aren't covered. Etc, etc etc...

[know_buddy_kares]

well honestly, it the government would actually balance the budget and spend the money on shit that actually MATTERS... then yes we could still have well paid doctors with a universal health care system. At least EVERYONE would have a fair chance to medical treatment. I really do think it's bullshit that so many americans are denied medical treatment due to lack of insurance...

but don't get me started on insurance companies... that's a whole other evil can of worms that in my opinion.. isn't worth the price they demand of us.

[Tryp]

I'm all for it in the U.S

Not universal

[Fierce Critter]

I am more for making things like hospitals non-profits. This would cut costs drastically, methinks.

I think there should be more healthcare options. But I can't sit here and make suggestions.

I am for social health care. But I do not know what would make it work. I am with Gaf in that I don't want to pay higher taxes for it.

This map is from Wikipedia's entry on Universal Health care. I cannot believe that with this many countries with some form of it, that it is ALWAYS a failure:

[n0Mad]

Private health care for people who have jobs and can afford it is great. Welfare is hugely abused though. If we can reform welfare so we're not paying lazy ass baby making druggies to do nothing, then we can use that money to provide health care for those who need it but don't have it.

[Destroit]

I'm all for it in the U.S

Not universal

No no, universal as in "countrywide", not globally.

Sorry, I refuse to have 55% of my income taken out of my paycheck to pay for other people's health care.

I also don't want to DIE from cancer. People in Canada die from cancer all the time due to the fact that if you think you have cancer, you are then put on a waiting list for an MRI that is never less than SIX MONTHS LONG. After you have cancer for 6 months and there's a good chance it's spread to enough of your body where there is no chance that any amount of chemo will save your life.

It's scary 'cause it's true!

Personally, I get free health care from the government. No strings attached. It's very easy to get free healthcare in America you just have to find it.

Furthermore, I believe that insurance companies are the problem to begin with. Inflation happens in the medical field because of things like, oh say, hospitals charging the insurance company TEN DOLLARS for a fucking tylenol.

There was one hospital bill that a friend of mine got where they charged the insurance company TWENTY DOLLARS for a "phlegm retaining apparatus" or something like that. Basically they worded it really fancy, I can't remember exactly how, to fool her because they didn't want the patient/insurance to figure out that they charged her TWENTY DOLLARS for a box of KLEENEX.

True story.

They also need to find a way to have people stop taking their kids to the fucking ER everytime they have a damn nosebleed, costing thousands of dollars to insurance companies just because their parents are wankers and hypocondriacts. When that happens, our insurance rates go up.

I also don't like the thought of supporting people who don't have jobs. When I didn't have a job, what did I do? I went out and got a job. It's simple, it's easy, it works!

I know that people are going to give me all these bleeding heart stories about "oh that's so horrible, Chernobyl, don't you want to help your fellow man?". I do, I really do, but I want to help those who actually NEED it. Ever heard the saying "God helps those who help themselves?" From my personal experience out of all the fuck-ups I've met in my life (i.e. most of my friends that aren't on DGN) are fuck-ups because they have nobody to blame but themselves.

People will then go: "But what about those with disabilities?" Okay, obviously those people need to be taken care of, but your average homeless person is perfectly able to work. I know because I used to be friends with most of the homeless people in Oakland County and some in Wayne. The ones in Wayne County are just a tad bit crazier on average and a bit more sleazy and dishonest from what I've seen. Strange but true. Usually with them it's excuse after excuse after excuse.

The other exception in my book is children: Children should always have health care no matter what. Or if someone has a pre-existing condition that could be severly detrimental to their health, in America that actually usually works backwards, insurance won't usually take you if you have a pre-existing condition. To me that's total bullshit.

Sure, health care and insurance in America needs help and a bit of work, but to me there needs to be more competition with less of a monopoly on the heath insurance market. It's getting better, but I don't like the thought of the government stepping in just because that eliminates any chance of business competition. I think the government can write laws and create regulations to improve the market in America, but they have no business running the show entirely IMO.

Universal Health Care is like communism: It sounds good in theory but NEVER works out in real life.

[Destroit]

Private health care for people who have jobs and can afford it is great. Welfare is hugely abused though. If we can reform welfare so we're not paying lazy ass baby making druggies to do nothing, then we can use that money to provide health care for those who need it but don't have it.

Man this is like the second time this week, but here:

You are quite on a roll!

I think the government should always do the food stamps / bridge card thing because it's relatively hard to fraud that system and it's FOOD. Food obviously keeps you alive.

Cash assistance is BULLSHIT. I don't think anyone in this country EVER under any circumstance should receive a PENNY for sitting on their fucking ass.

When welfare parents get it they NEVER spend it on the fucking kid. That's a large assumption to make, but hanging around what would be considered "lower class" my entire life, let's just say I've never ever seen a case personally where the parent did good with the money. They'd sit there and buy weed/drugs with it and sit around and smoke the shit in front of their kids, which equally appalls me.

I'd be willing to bet my entire month's salary to the fact that probably 50% of money distributed as "cash assistance" goes either to cigarettes, drugs, or alcohol. 50% is being lenient also, the number is probably higher than that.

So yay to supplying enough food to keep people alive, but nay to pampering people and feeding their drug habits.

I know a newly married couple that used to get cash assistance because they had a baby. What did they spend it on? New shoes for the wife, hair dye, an entertainment center, clothes, gas to go to the beach, etc.

I wanted to just choke them, as horrible as that sounds

[n0Mad]

Chernobyl, we need to hang out sometime. Gaf, when you're up from Florida let us know and we'll all get together. Go play golf at the country club or something snobbishly Republican like that. lol

I think the government should always do the food stamps / bridge card thing because it's relatively hard to fraud that system

The Walgreens I work at (in Snobchester, er, Rochester) doesn't take Bridge Cards. I see numerous customers come in with iPhones and iPods, brand name shoes, and plenty of bling, they ask if we take Bridge Cards and when I say no, they spend the rest of the transaction bitching and moaning. They whip out a huge wad of cash (at least 5 or 6 twenties, a fifty or two, and sometimes a hundred) and pay with that. Makes me wonder why they have a Bridge Card and how they got it in the first place. There's been times where I could qualify for one (probably do now) but I'm just too damn proud to take it. When I landed in the ER with an emergency though, I was very grateful for state aid. But I worked my ass off at a shit job that is far beneath my education and experience so I could pay back my part. Took me two years to do so but I did it.

[creatureofthenyte]

No Hillarycare for me THANKS!

[Ice Queen (1)]

In theory, it doesn't sound too bad, but I don't think it would never work. For one thing, government management of social programs does not have a good track record. The red tape would be way too cumbersome, waiting lists, and and the rich folk would be treated the same as the poor? I don't see that going over well. Secondly, pay rates. As someone mentioned already, some doctors are leaving practices now due to the inability to make a decent amount of money after malpractice insurance (law suits with no real basis another culprit) and low reimbursement from insurance companies, Medicare, or uninsured. And those of you who have been in the hospital know, it's just not the doctors taking care of you, more often, it is the nurses. (OK, I am bias) There is already a severe nursing shortage, what will it look like if pay for nurses declines?

I believe the system now is not working, but I fear government "universal healthcare" will make it worse. I have absolutely no idea how to make it better. Maybe Spook has an idea there. People that are working and being responsible, but can't afford healthcare need help. There is a huge gap in income level where government will say "you make too much to qualify for Medicaid" and where people can actually afford it. This makes it almost better for some to stay in lower paying jobs where they have government assistance then to go to better paying jobs where they could be otherwise self sufficient, with the exception of healthcare. The gap needs closed!

I see a lot of issues regarding uninsured in the hospitals and it really sucks. People come in and are treated until medically stable. They go home, don't take their meds, come back to ER, get treated, repeat. It would be so much better for their health and more cost efficient if they could see a doctor before it gets that bad, and if they were able to take their medications like they are suppose to. Yes, I realize, some people choose to buy drugs, cigarettes, alcohol instead of meds, and some people just refuse to take care of themselves and just want to do whatever and come to the hospital to be "fixed" and then do whatever again. There will always be people like that, and they will always be a drain on medical resources.

OK, I am rambling, I'll shut up now.

[Destroit]

Chernobyl, we need to hang out sometime. Gaf, when you're up from Florida let us know and we'll all get together. Go play golf at the country club or something snobbishly Republican like that. lol

Yes! We'll sit in a pool filled to the brim with pennies and giggle while we drink our Earl Grey and eat our crumpets! Uhmm...whatever the fuck crumpets are anyway...and we'll all be like this: Minus the chairs plus one penny filled pool obviously. It'll be a grande ol' time

[Nienna]

While I acknowledge the problems inherant in universal healthcare I still think we should have some form of it due to my personal experience: 19, too ill from chemo to work so no insurance, all medical bills billed directly to me... to the tune of almost $100,000. If my grandfather had not left a provision in his will to pay off my medical bilss, my life would be ruined unless I filed for bankruptcy. Just so I could live. So yeah. I think we need universal healthcare because I know I'm not alone.

BTW.. Medicare denied me because I had no children. So did welfare. Disability said I was not too ill to work.

[Destroit]

While I acknowledge the problems inherant in universal healthcare I still think we should have some form of it due to my personal experience: 19, too ill from chemo to work so no insurance, all medical bills billed directly to me... to the tune of almost $100,000. If my grandfather had not left a provision in his will to pay off my medical bilss, my life would be ruined unless I filed for bankruptcy. Just so I could live. So yeah. I think we need universal healthcare because I know I'm not alone.

BTW.. Medicare denied me because I had no children. So did welfare. Disability said I was not too ill to work.

Yeap see that's a total crock. I had no idea that was your case, I'm sorry to hear the government handled your case so callously. As I said in my post, people who should automatically be covered by the government, no ifs ands or buts, are people who have life-threatening conditions and children.

Yet...my ex just now got free medicare. Why? Because he's an "alcoholic" I've seen the guy stay sober for 9 months, and if you can stay sober that long than you can stay sober period.

The whole system is so fucked right now, once again I'm sorry to hear that they tossed you around like that and didn't help.

The system is SO fucked that my free insurance doesn't come from the state or the federal government, it's funded by Macomb County. I have a fairly loud heart murmur and the free clinic said that it could be life threatening and said my heart could just stop in my chest and they pulled so many strings just to get me covered. That's such total crap, here I am a healthy 22 year old college student just starting out in the world and on my way to success, and yet the state refused to cover my LIFE...? The state/fed govt is so pathetic they need to rely on the county to keep their citizens alive?

Like I said, we need to have free or discounted health insurance for people whose lives are being threatened by any sort of medical condition.

[Head Wreck]

the way the hopspitals here are all paid for out of one budget, but each area runs its own trust, each trust has a couple of hospitals and in each hospitals they have many departments.

the problem is from my experience. hardly any of the departments talk to each other, let alone hospital to hospital or trust to trust, and each hospital has its own patient records. thier rarely shared

infact my local hospital has 2 sets of records for me as i moved 1 door down the road and they think its 2 seperate people (no one can possibly be daft enough to move to the mirror opposite of thier semi detached!) and wont merge the records unless told so by "higher authority".

also its not free.

we pay national insurance which covers half, the other half comes from income tax.

money is mispent on parralel schemes quite often as department dont talk to each other, we had one company installing premium rate phone lines in the rooms of one hospital for patients to be contacted (at a profit to the instalation company and hospital) and another company installing IP telephones for patients in the rooms IN THE SAME HOSPITAL.

just think how much money was wasted there.

plus were paying for the healthcare as stated (us working for a living), those on benefit get thier national insurance paid for by govt. (property or income tax, depending if its local or national govt that pays out social security benefits) which is fine (except dfor those stuck on dole with no intention of finding work), and any reffugees and imigrants who are unemployed! they pay zip!

its developed a situation called healthcare tourism, where people enter this country just for dole and NHS and dont contribute.

disclaimer: if someone imigrates here and works, i got no problem. but if you come here to sponge, or born here and sponge GET THE FUCK OUT!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Chernobyl and HW just hit a nail on the head and didn;t even realize it.

Local Government is far more capable to handle your needs than the Feds are. Think about the services that affect you that actually work are are not tied up with red tape and interdepartmental jurisdiction. I am willing to bet that the ones that work the best are managed at a very local level.

Some form of managed healther care at a local or reginal level would work so much better than something handled in Washington. It's so easy to turn someone down for services when you don't have to look them in the face.

[Ice Queen (1)]

Chernobyl and HW just hit a nail on the head and didn;t even realize it.

Local Government is far more capable to handle your needs than the Feds are. Think about the services that affect you that actually work are are not tied up with red tape and interdepartmental jurisdiction. I am willing to bet that the ones that work the best are managed at a very local level.

Some form of managed healther care at a local or reginal level would work so much better than something handled in Washington. It's so easy to turn someone down for services when you don't have to look them in the face.

There are programs in a lot of counties. You can contact the local health department for info. I signed up in Saginaw county and it was so easy. It was actually at a health fair at my college. They asked if you had insurance. "no" I simply filled out a paper with my info that took only a couple of minutes. I got a card in the mail. It wasn't the easiest to use, but worth the trouble because cost of care was minimal. Something like $10 for office visit, and cheap medicine, comparably. There are also dentists that will do sliding scale fees for low income. Again, hard to find, but worth it. Ladies, you can also get PAPs and birth control with sliding fee scale through the family planning at the health department.

[jadnifer]

Well, I am finally going to come out with this.

I am Bi-polar and I do take medication daily to keep it under control. I am not ashamed of it, I just dont like to broadcast it.

I do get help from the state to pay my medical bills and my prescriptions.

If they didnt pay for my therapy, that would be upwards of a grand a month.

Even if I took all generics, most of the medication that I take is about $350 a month. I would never be able to afford that. That would be a bad thing too because bi-polar disorder is definitely something that needs to be under control.

I feel that they deny too many people that need it and give it to too many people that dont. In some cases, such as Nienna's, its just not fair for the fact that without the medicine and the doctor care that she needs, she could die.

I dont think that the health care should be universal, but I feel that it should be affordable enough for everyone to be able to have it and how much it costs you dependent on how much your income is.

And thats all I have to say about that.