Erks Me

[Destroit]

So, following in the footsteps of my good friend Jadnifer, I now have a debate question to ask that actually has quite a bit to do with current events, or at least the American atmosphere, society-wise and economically speaking also:

What the heck is wrong with our generation?

For those of you wondering which generation I'm specifically talking about, not Generation X, not Generation Y, I'm talking about Generation Head-in-Ass (i.e. people who are roughly 20 - 30 ish, kids raised in the 90's and late 80's). If that's too harsh for your then call us: Generation Excuses.

Firstly, working in real estate I've been noticing a very ALARMING trend: Leasing.

NO ONE SHOULD LEASE - EVER. It is common sense that you are throwing your money away. Seriously. Go invest in drugs or a hooker even, I'd rather see you spend your money on acid or something like that, at least when that's all done and over with you can say you had a good time. But leasing? That's one of the worst ways I could think of anyone WASTING their money. What good can come of it? (rhetorical question)

If you are renting or leasing, you are wasting every dollar, you will NEVER own anything! You will never get it back. You might as well take your lighter out of your pocket and set your Benjamins ablaze. Alarmingly however, almost everyone I know leases or rents with no intention of ever owning. You'll keep throwing away money and money and money and more money until you are old and have nothing to fall back on. You'll literally rent yourself into an early grave, working just to make sure you can pay your landlord every month (30 years after my house will be payed off in full, might I add). Why not take the SAME AMOUNT of money and BUY something that you OWN? SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BUY - LESS ACTUALLY. I've heard the "well it's too much responsibility" and for that I decree: BULLSHIT! Okay, so if you can lease something, keep in in METICULOUSLY IMMACULATE condition (because if you don't you'll either have to buy it anyway in the case of cars, or lose a couple hundred dollar security deposit in the case with houses) and pay the SAME amount of money for rent every month that you would be paying on a mortgage, why not just pay on something you could do whatever the fuck you want with? Knock your walls down, spread crap on your lawn, paint the whole house black like I did, WHATEVER YOU WANT with as many pets as you damn well please...no one can say shit. It's YOURS, and nobody can change that.

If you don't believe me that buying is EASIER than renting/leasing (especially in today's market) then just click here: http://www.detroitgothic.net/t19581.html

For those of you who rent, your landlord could come to your apartment RIGHT now, serve you eviction papers for NO reason and ask you to be out in 30 days. Doesn't matter how much you love living there, doesn't matter if you've done anything wrong, he has the right to do that no questions asked. I know because I played landlord for the past year, I'm keen to all the laws and such. Why would anyone want to live in that kind of uncertainty? It's like moving out of mommy and daddy's house to.....move back into mommy and daddy's house. Does not make sense to me, our generation seems to be so afraid of growing up, it's like we constantly need to be babysat and regulated.

Why does our generation lease instead of buying, thinking that it's a good idea?

Also, furthermore, the leasing thing brings me to another important point: credit. Why does my generation think that credit is MONEY. Credit is never, has never, and will NEVER be money, so why does my generation throw it around like it is? My best friend is $10,000 dollars in DEBT...because she needs all the best shit. Needs her hair done, needs a nice couch, nice table, everything now now now me me me, don't care about tomorrow, I have it today! Why not go to the bar and spend $100 on something that we're going to piss/puke out all night? Seems like a good investment to me even though we have NEGATIVE amounts of money ! I know stupid morons who pull EQUITY out of their houses to pay for their credit cards, only to turn around and charge up more credit cards on shit they "need" You're A) Stupid and B) Are ruining the market for people who aren't leveling on dangerous amounts of STUPID.

What is WRONG with people? It is NOT Monopoly money, it is NOT a game, so why do all of the 20-30 somethings play it like it is? When did we become so materialistic and shallow?

People my age don't save for the future also, instead of taking $500 dollars and putting it into an IRA or something for their retirement they take that same $500 and put it into, oh I dunno, a PS3 for instance.

We don't care about our health either, I know people that get McDonald's a FEW times a week when you should only have that garbage crap maybe a few times a year (they don't even have real potatoes - it's potato PASTE). Save your five dollars, which is outrageously expensive for one meal, pick up a bag of two dollar chicken, and spend the three extra dollars on potatoes and veggies (Joe Randazzo's on Gratiot and 9 Mile has amazing produce for amazingly cheap) and make some damn REAL food that is filling, nourshing, delicious, pride filled (because you made it yourself), and GOOD FOR YOU.

I'll get the "Oh I'm too busy too cook" from friends all the time when I tell them this. Do you want to know the true reality of it? They're too busy sitting around in heaps of their own garbage and wrappers getting high all day and playing World of Warcraft . That last paragraph describes roughly 85% of my friends.

Going along with health (I know I'm getting a little heated about it, but this stuff pisses me off to no end) when did we all become such hermits? There's a huge world outside, a vast world full of trees and animals, cities, people, buildings, things to do, stuff to light on fire, sunrises to watch, oceans and lakes to play it, mountains to climb, caves to schplunk, etc. Why are we all holed up in our houses like the end of the world is near? GO OUTSIDE! Especially today, it's 59 out today, you might catch me in Royal Oak later reconnecting with PEOPLE. Ooooh, yes, actual live people, they do exist outside of your living room. I'm sure that will start to disappear also, people out in public. Those people are now probably also sitting in their houses waiting for something to happen and bitching about it. Get in your car, get on your feet, and leave! Walk! Drive! Bike!

WELL....I realize that was a bit of a rant I get pissed off so much about this issue, I can't stand so much of our generation because it's always "oooh boo hoo hoooooo : Pooooor meee! Daddy didn't get me that Convertable so I'm going to comfort myself by going out and buying shit from the mall on credit then I wanna stop at a buffet!" It's called - get a grip. Life is not supposed to be daisies and rainbows all day, it's hard, sweaty, and painful, much like trying to pass PE in high school for most current kids, since none of them are used to moving around EVER anymore.

I want everyone's two cents, right now. I want everyone's opinion on how it got this way, why it got this way, what went wrong, and what (if anything) do you think we could do to fix it.

As much as it pisses me off, I will say that I'll be laughing in five years when I call my friends, who will most likely be sitting in their house, getting high, craming their faces with nasty fried "food", and playing World of Warcraft. The conversation will most likely go as follows:

Chernobyl: "Hey, how's it goin'"

Friend: "Same old shit over here, smoking a joint chillin here, how about yourself?"

Chernobyl: "Oooh, you know, Raven and I needed a vacation and wanted sushi so we figured 'What better place to go rather than Tokyo?' and now I'm here! You should see these Harajuku girls, they're fab, I'm dressed up with 'em and Raven's behind the camera snapping pictures. What are you doing right now? You should have come with us!"

Friend: "Tokyo? Ha! I'm broke, I'm just sitting here playing WoW..."

Chernobyl: "....*snicker*...HA! That's what I thought - LOSER!"

*click*

I would never be that mean, but trust me, if you met the non-DGNers I hang out with you'd be tempted alllll the time to say that they're losers to their faces also.

I personally lived that kind of life for the longest time. I used to have a hefty weed habit that would run me a couple hundred dollars a month, was borderline obese, never left my room especially not the house, was sitting surrounded in garbage that piled up (mostly fast food wrappers), in bad debt, a spoiled only child until one day I woke up and thought - "What the fuck is wrong with me? Just because other people in my life are this pathetic doesn't mean I should be following in their footsteps. Well...lack of footsteps really." I took it one step at a time, a process taking a few years, starting with my weight and lastly quitting weed/cigarettes/alcohol except for socially on HUGE occasions, like all of that stuff should be used. Maybe not everyone has what it takes to do the same, but I know alot of people do and just choose not to, and apathy pisses me off almost more than hypocracy.

I'm also sick of people saying they'll do shit and don't. "I'm going to start saving my money", "I wanna get healthy this year", "I'm going to find a job", "I'm going to stop playing Nintendo and better myself", only to find that they're talking out of their ass and never actually do any of it. Who are these people trying to fool?

In a nutshell, everything I've described in the above rant is the only description I could think to give of our 20 somethings generation, definately not something that any of us should be proud of.

Kay...now debate about it. I want your view, especially since mine can be exaggerated from time to time because I tend to get carried away I also realize that, yes, people have problems and mishaps and nobody is perfect, but our generation is the biggest train wreck I've seen yet. I understand the whole "live a little" stance, trust me, I do it too, but this all seems so out of hand.

[Fierce Critter]

I really don't have the patience to sit and read all of that. But I'll respond to the leasing part. Though I'm generation X, I do have input into this.

Jon and I have been renting for 9 years because we have taken that long to figure out where and how we want to settle. Continuously buying and then trying to resell would have been incredibly difficult & time-wasting. We have been married 9 years and moved no less than 13 times. Can you imagine trying to buy/sell that many times?

Also, there's the matter of credit. I had bad credit when we entered the marriage. Jon's has suffered as a result of things like unpaid medical bills that happened when uninsured, etc. We had actually bought a house while in NC. But quickly realized we'd been the victims of the early onset of the current plague of bad lenders granting loans to people who really couldn't afford it. So we sold the house to avoid foreclosure. However, the mortgage company reported it as a foreclosure. To get that corrected on our credit record, we have to jump through hoops and possibly even hire an attorney. So our credit is fucked right now until we can take the time to sit down and do all that.

We cannot get a loan on a house right now. Much as we'd like to. We need to rent for at least another year or so, pay off debtors, hire that attorney and take care of that fubar, etc. Once that is done, we will start shopping for a house here in Wyandotte where we've realized we really want to settle down once and for all.

While we can't get a loan (we tried), we can, however, find landlords who are willing to overlook a bad credit record if rent is paid on time and properties are kept up. Which we do, without fail.

That's our story. Yes, we'd rather buy. But it hasn't been real feasible for us - yet.

My sister is the generation before me. She rented an apartment for probably 10-12 years before finally buying. Her reason? She's smart. She's picky as hell. She wanted to save a big down payment so she could move into a good city, a good neighborhood, a really nice house. With the big down payment she made, she could afford the monthly payments on a much more expensive house. She never jumps into things without careful & lengthy consideration.

But she also has the kind of income that allowed her to live in a modest but nice apartment in Southgate, AND save buttloads of money toward that first house buy.

There are lots of reasons people rent/lease and don't buy.

Oh - one I'm really curious about and somewhat fits in here. I for the life of me don't understand why people bother with buying condos. OMG - you have to live as if you're living in an apartment. You have to watch noise, you have to conform to some group's standards, and they are INCREDIBLY HARD TO SELL from what I've always seen over the years. And if the neighbor on the other side of the wall from you falls asleep with a cigarette - your place burns down too. I always try to talk people out of buying condos if they can afford the same payment on a house. It just makes so much more sense to me.

[Destroit]

I really don't have the patience to sit and read all of that. But I'll respond to the leasing part. Though I'm generation X, I do have input into this.

Jon and I have been renting for 9 years because we have taken that long to figure out where and how we want to settle. Continuously buying and then trying to resell would have been incredibly difficult & time-wasting. We have been married 9 years and moved no less than 13 times. Can you imagine trying to buy/sell that many times?

Also, there's the matter of credit. I had bad credit when we entered the marriage. Jon's has suffered as a result of things like unpaid medical bills that happened when uninsured, etc. We had actually bought a house while in NC. But quickly realized we'd been the victims of the early onset of the current plague of bad lenders granting loans to people who really couldn't afford it. So we sold the house to avoid foreclosure. However, the mortgage company reported it as a foreclosure. To get that corrected on our credit record, we have to jump through hoops and possibly even hire an attorney. So our credit is fucked right now until we can take the time to sit down and do all that.

We cannot get a loan on a house right now. Much as we'd like to. We need to rent for at least another year or so, pay off debtors, hire that attorney and take care of that fubar, etc. Once that is done, we will start shopping for a house here in Wyandotte where we've realized we really want to settle down once and for all.

While we can't get a loan (we tried), we can, however, find landlords who are willing to overlook a bad credit record if rent is paid on time and properties are kept up. Which we do, without fail.

That's our story. Yes, we'd rather buy. But it hasn't been real feasible for us - yet.

My sister is the generation before me. She rented an apartment for probably 10-12 years before finally buying. Her reason? She's smart. She's picky as hell. She wanted to save a big down payment so she could move into a good city, a good neighborhood, a really nice house. With the big down payment she made, she could afford the monthly payments on a much more expensive house. She never jumps into things without careful & lengthy consideration.

But she also has the kind of income that allowed her to live in a modest but nice apartment in Southgate, AND save buttloads of money toward that first house buy.

There are lots of reasons people rent/lease and don't buy.

Oh - one I'm really curious about and somewhat fits in here. I for the life of me don't understand why people bother with buying condos. OMG - you have to live as if you're living in an apartment. You have to watch noise, you have to conform to some group's standards, and they are INCREDIBLY HARD TO SELL from what I've always seen over the years. And if the neighbor on the other side of the wall from you falls asleep with a cigarette - your place burns down too. I always try to talk people out of buying condos if they can afford the same payment on a house. It just makes so much more sense to me.

Yeeeah, The Eternal, myself, Troy, and a few others definately have a hard time keeping it under 5,000 words a post . At least they're good with using breaks in the sentences, I'm getting better at it but when I think it all just floods my head at once like water bursting through a dam.

Good input, I did forget to put initially in my original post that leasing IS feasable for people who:

A) Move alot (in the case of houses/condos)

B) Are rich and like to move alot

C) Are rich or a business person and want/need a flashy new car every year (in the case of cars, obviously)

Leasing isn't totally horrible if you're a good candidate for it, but most people aren't. Since you've moved around a bit, it seems to me that leasing was a good idea for you. I personally will end up leasing when I move down to Atlanta on our little "moving experiment" (I've never left state and am almost phobic to do so, which is why Raven wants to go and live there for 2-5 years so I can see what it's like), because I don't want to go, buy a house, have to flip said house, then move back here and buy another house.

So good point that reminded me of another good point that I initially forgot to add.

Many people who are leasing really shouldn't be however, many kids my age, and I guess don't understand why it's bad? See that's what I'm trying to figure out with starting this thread. If you're my age, just starting out, possibly with a sig. other, and don't plan on moving in the next ten years you should never lease - period. Always buy a house. But nobody I know does that, they always just get some shitty apartment some place and pay an outrageous amount of money a month. If you're paying more than $450 a month to live someplace that you won't end up owning - you are being ripped off, no questions asked, and you're shooting yourself in the foot financially speaking.

As with condos there's many pros and cons. You don't have to pay for anything and they aren't strict like apartments. When it comes to condos it's best to "shop around' and find the best one (not price wise, but rules wise). As for selling them back, it was very hard to do in the 90's, since it was such a seller's market, but since the market is soft right now it's actually probably just as easy if not easier to flip a condo.

[Head Wreck]

Yeeeah, The Eternal, myself, Troy, and a few others definately have a hard time keeping it under 5,000 words a post . At least they're good with using breaks in the sentences, I'm getting better at it but when I think it all just floods my head at once like water bursting through a dam.

i could write a whole dissertatiion on some subjects, but then i consider that with the decline of western inteligence in the general populace that the first 3 lines would be read then "hfuckitihateshakespear" kicks in.

so i decided to take the dissertation to a unifying concept that those with the intelligence would be able to to comprehend, and thius i give you, the pineapple, and the coconut.

...what was that about a condo?

[Shade Everdark]

There are all kinds of reasons I can think of not to take out a mortgage on a home. The largest being that I don't intend to be in Detroit for the rest of my life.

Even still, in the collapsing housing market, I might take to looking for a house, but I will never find one in an area I want to live in, for what I'm paying for my current apartment, when you factor in insurance, taxes, and PMI.

[Azeuron]

There are all kinds of reasons I can think of not to take out a mortgage on a home. The largest being that I don't intend to be in Detroit for the rest of my life.

Even still, in the collapsing housing market, I might take to looking for a house, but I will never find one in an area I want to live in, for what I'm paying for my current apartment, when you factor in insurance, taxes, and PMI.

I can understand your point here but even though the car companies are dumbasses and are ruining the economy in michigan its not going to be that way forever and the economy will improve so one could purchase a house right now taking advantage of the low economy getting the house at a low rate with the definate intention of only being there a few years and when the economy finally does turn around selling the house at a profit and actually making money on it and being able to move wherever they wanted maybe even pocketing some money in the process. a house an actual house is always a good investment.

[CandyQuackenbush]

I must say, at 23,

I'm a proud Home Owner.

Proud Jeep Owner.

And all of my bills are payed on time.

Pretty much rather Independent, in some cases.

[Hellion]

IMO,right now with the US econmy,not just here,being unstable I don't want to be in the situation where all of a sudden I am laid off a month after I buy a house,also I do not and will not even sign a lease until a few bills are paid off and gone, In America you have to have Bush/Cheney platinum credit to be able to do almost anything,which,which to me is bs.in 3 and a half weeks I am moving to a relatives in Warren so I can save some cash and pay some things off.

Also it is no one's fault if they were laid off,even though they were doing their job very well,thats why I wont work at any place that is at all affiliated with the Big Three.

[jadnifer]

I could write a whole forum page on your ranting, Chernobyl so I will TRY to keep it short and sweet.

As for leasing, I cant figure out why people do it because you will always have a payment.

Renting vs. Buying- some people dont want to have to pay all the utilities and just dont have the time to keep up on the maintenance that renting entitles you.

The credit thing is ridiculous. I cant say that I have the best credit. Im working on it though. Some people believe that credit is a life saver and that you can have EVERYTHING you want. You still have to pay for it. More even because most times unless your credit is emaculate, you have a pretty high interest rate.

Too may people sit at home and wonder when life is going to come to them. It just doesnt work that way. You have to go out there and live your life. People arent going to come to your door and ask you to be their friend. Employers arent going to come to your door and ask you to work for them. You have to make your life and it isnt going to happen playing video games all day.

Thats what I think.

[Tryp]

As I've noticed with eahc generation, we follow int he footsteps of our older generation. For example look at us now between say 18-25, most of us smoke, drink and or do other types of drugs and have a different outlook on life. We take advice of our elders and even teach them. Now look at the younger generation, the drug rate is up, drop out rate is up, teen pregrantcy is up and their attitudes are fuck the world we know it all. Does this reflect on us and our elders? In a snse it does because we teach them and show them what is right and what is wrong. As the world prgresses it is only going tog et worse.

Thats my view on it.

[Destroit]

IMO,right now with the US econmy,not just here,being unstable I don't want to be in the situation where all of a sudden I am laid off a month after I buy a house,also I do not and will not even sign a lease until a few bills are paid off and gone, In America you have to have Bush/Cheney platinum credit to be able to do almost anything,which,which to me is bs.in 3 and a half weeks I am moving to a relatives in Warren so I can save some cash and pay some things off.

Also it is no one's fault if they were laid off,even though they were doing their job very well,thats why I wont work at any place that is at all affiliated with the Big Three.

I'd hate to tell you but Bush/Cheney did the right thing by demanding people have good credit in order to buy a house. In the 90's people were getting loans who shouldn't have been getting loans and since they were immature and couldn't pay a bill on time would claim bankruptcy after incurring a good amount of debt, and the loan companies would lose money.

It's because of Bill Clinton that the housing market is beginning to crumble. People were allowed to take out ridiculous "fad loans" (flexible ARM for instance? Who is stupid enough to get something like that) that seem like good deals to someone who is ignorant with money and those loan officers were giving out those loans even when the persons getting the loans had low paying jobs (jobs where you couldn't make the payment) and no credit.

Personally I think if you can't pay your bills on time and you can't do something simple like raise your credit than you probably aren't responsible enough to have a house. I'm not for hand-outs, I'm for people actually getting rewarded for their good behavior, in this case paying bills in full and on time, and not biting off more than they can chew.

It's not hard, I'm 22 and my credit score is 772. I've payed roughly 8 bills late before and STILL...my credit score is 772. Trust me, credit scores are easy as fuck to raise and keep.

As much as everyone in this country loves to blame Bush/Cheney (because it's alot easier to point the finger at "big bad government man" than to suck up and take responsibility for our own actions and spending) this time it's not their fault. Sorry, but have they been taking out multiple loans that can never be payed off with their current income, not paying on them, paying them with credit cards then taking out equity from our homes (which was on credit in the first place) in order to pay off said credit cards? I think not: WE did. The American population.

The bad economy, for the most part, also has to do with the fact that the American population has totally collapsed the housing market - on our OWN. Soo...yeah definately OUR fault.

We can blame Bush/Cheney for the war, yes, but not every little thing that goes wrong. We need to collectively grow up and learn to tie our own shoelaces and wipe our own asses, not have big daddy president do it for us.

Also, having anything other than the following is considered frivolous bills, and you should not have them unless you can afford it: Phone, utilities, rent/mortgage payment, car payment/insurance.

If you have any bills that are not listed above and cannot seem to pay them off, you are bad with money and shouldn't be allowed to take out a mortgage or loan on anything. Sorry, it's a hard world but that's how it is. It's like in highschool, if you're the shittiest kid in baseball, you're obviously getting cut from the team. It should work that way with money and the economy also.

[Hellion]

I'd hate to tell you but Bush/Cheney did the right thing by demanding people have good credit in order to buy a house. In the 90's people were getting loans who shouldn't have been getting loans and since they were immature and couldn't pay a bill on time would claim bankruptcy after incurring a good amount of debt, and the loan companies would lose money.

It's because of Bill Clinton that the housing market is beginning to crumble. People were allowed to take out ridiculous "fad loans" (flexible ARM for instance? Who is stupid enough to get something like that) that seem like good deals to someone who is ignorant with money and those loan officers were giving out those loans even when the persons getting the loans had low paying jobs (jobs where you couldn't make the payment) and no credit.

Personally I think if you can't pay your bills on time and you can't do something simple like raise your credit than you probably aren't responsible enough to have a house. I'm not for hand-outs, I'm for people actually getting rewarded for their good behavior, in this case paying bills in full and on time, and not biting off more than they can chew.

It's not hard, I'm 22 and my credit score is 772. I've payed roughly 8 bills late before and STILL...my credit score is 772. Trust me, credit scores are easy as fuck to raise and keep.

As much as everyone in this country loves to blame Bush/Cheney (because it's alot easier to point the finger at "big bad government man" than to suck up and take responsibility for our own actions and spending) this time it's not their fault. Sorry, but have they been taking out multiple loans that can never be payed off with their current income, not paying on them, paying them with credit cards then taking out equity from our homes (which was on credit in the first place) in order to pay off said credit cards? I think not: WE did. The American population.

The bad economy, for the most part, also has to do with the fact that the American population has totally collapsed the housing market - on our OWN. Soo...yeah definately OUR fault.

We can blame Bush/Cheney for the war, yes, but not every little thing that goes wrong. We need to collectively grow up and learn to tie our own shoelaces and wipe our own asses, not have big daddy president do it for us.

Not to sound rude,but like I mentioned before,it is not my fault getting laid off in the past,others I know have had the same crap happen to them!!!!,I also know being born and raised here in this country definately goes against you.btw I am not one of those irresponsible ppl that does'nt try to get shit done!!! The American Dream has vanished quite a long time ago.Like I said You have not been in my shoes before,I lived in a completely different generation,so enough with the assuming!!!!!!!!!!

[Destroit]

Not to sound rude,but like I mentioned before,it is not my fault getting laid off in the past,others I know have had the same crap happen to them!!!!,I also know being born and raised here in this country definately goes against you.btw I am not one of those irresponsible ppl that does'nt try to get shit done!!! The American Dream has vanished quite a long time ago.Like I said You have not been in my shoes before,I lived in a completely different generation,so enough with the assuming!!!!!!!!!!

No I'm not trying to judge or assume, I'm trying to make the point that nobody can blame Bush for all of this. The economy has been waaay worse than this before, when my mom was in her 20s the only way you could get a job anywhere was if you were either related to or fucking the owner. That's much worse than now. The American Dream hasn't vanished for me because I make it work, I personally have been laid off twice and I'm only 22. I just went out and found another job and fought tooth, claw and nail to do so and took whatever work I could possibly get, even if it was unsafe, low paying, and not in my area of expertise.

Like I said, not trying to put myself in anyone's shoes or judge, just trying to say that the economy/housing market isn't the President's fault: It's ours collectively as a nation.

I will say though, the fact that immigrants have priority over actual citizens is total bullshit. But then again it's worse in that respect in say Canada for instance. Something really should change about that, I believe okay maybe equality and equal job opportunity for LEGAL immigrants, but never should they have priority over natural born US citizens.

[Hellion]

Lets say high shity gas gouging prices

letting everyone come and live here illegally,and automatically getting credit on the taxpayers accounts.

wages not conforming to the cost of living.

energy companies trying to ruin the global economy

Fortune 500 companies buying politicians so they work for them.

Bush's minions have alot to do with this BS

jobs going overseas due to NAFTA.

and shit loads of government waste

The only credit I give to anyone are the people who are doing everything they can to stay afloat,not the piss poor mee pple that don't want to work,but want to make any excuse not to do anything about it,considering I have been working since I was 15,since I come from a family of hard working ppl.btw Chernobyl this is not directed at you.its directed at the system that allows this to happen

Hers a good Carlin skit,LOL!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qj2iVgx_VS4

[Rayne]

In the buying/leasing argument, buying isn't much better in today's market. Our taxes are THROUGH THE ROOF here in the City limits ... and it took it's toll. Although we have the biggest house in this neighbourhood and the biggest lot ... and by far the biggest garage - we pay for it all in taxes. Our house payment isn't what kills us, it's actually quite low for out loan amount. It's the taxes which equal over half of our entire house payment (with taxes like these you HAVE to have escrow or the onslaught at tax time would KILL you).

We decided we were going to part with the house and move to somewhere with lower taxes (an area that was yet to be determined, but just about anywhere is lower than here). We put our house up on the market. Reasonably priced for the area and for not much more than the ranches on less land.

It was up for about a year and never sold. Nothing is selling around here. Especially in the City limits.

[Jabberwok]

well, as chernobyl can tell you, i my self have had my moments of financial idiocy. dont start with me on all that. yes you. but i have noticed that much of this financial idiocy stems from the fact that from a young age many people are never tought how to manage money or even invest, which i believe needs to change. i find that its true that in most cases that, yes, your better off buying. but the thing is that many people have no idea what it is their realy buying. take the house i was living in back home. many of the problems like foundation, framming, and general upkeep on the house were never done even before we moved in. now i find that the foundation may be sinking, the frame of the house is twisting( uniform cracks in walls, and ceiling, a distinct warp in the flooring. and now leaking from parts of the walls where water shouldnt be able to get to). now adays it seems like irresponsibility with money, and god help us all, credit; compounded with a complete lack of investigation of the products were buying, zero experience in investing, and a general discontent to work towards what you realy want in a responsible way, is whats killing us financiallay. i do find that now that im away from the crazyness and apathetic lifestyle i was stuck in im actually doing my own investigation and selfmotivation to do what it is i need to, to get shit in order. im actually saving money instead of blowing it on takeout and indulgences. ive gotten myself back into furthering my education because what better investment can one make than in bettering ones mind and as well my body. back into my weightlifting routine. and one thing that i have found that can help is having a well rounded wellness and intelect to begin an understanding as to how better invest ones time money and advice. the general mallaise that people have is due to a lack of understaning of what the fuck it is their doing to their life. bad investments are bad investments. and sadly many just cant tell what a bad investment is. or the ones who just dont care because their spoiled rotten by mommy and daddy.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Theres too much there to break it down into a specific debate about a specific topic. Jads system of breaking the individual points up was a good idea.

Whats wrong with "our" generation? Without discussing each individual point in the topic post :

1. Too many crybabies.

We expect things to be easy, when they aren't, we cry about it way too much. To many people feeling they are "entitled" to things that they never worked for. The work ethic at least of a lot of folks i know is really piss poor. That doesn't mean there aren't hard workers out there, i just think we have a serious problem with it.

2. Too much focus on the cult of the entertainer.

Total waste of human potential. Entertainment has its benefits but nowadays entertainers (often the less cerebral the better) are the new gods. Its a scary waste of time and energy to place so much time and energy in this direction. We need to focus more on "real" life, goals, ideas, technology, psychology, science... Something other than worshiping at the cult of the entertainer. When American Idol has more voters than the presidential election, something is dangerously wrong.

I'm guilty of this second party fairly heavily along with the majority of the people i know (not all of course). Subjects of substance are for "nerds" and learning/education is just something forced upon us, not something to be enjoyed or develop a sense of wonder about. This does not bode well for the future, when we have a whole population lost in escapism and ignoring reality in favor of it.

[sass_in_the_pants]

To address Chernobyl's original point:

So, I've been working in corporate finance for several years now and through a project through at my church I do free financial advising to low-income families.

And ALOT of people out there ARE getting ripped off. Chernobyl is right - often buying a house is a better choice than leasing or renting. Sometimes, though, you can't help it - you plan on moving within five years, your credit score is shit, your job is unstable, whatever. There are alot of reasons people don't buy, but I totally get Chernobyl's point, which is that people should at least fully CONSIDER owning a home instead of renting because often that is a better move in the long run.

But I think ALOT more people get screwed on their car rather than their housing. Some of the clients that I talk to are spending over $400 a month ON THEIR CAR! Their car! And THAT is what screws them over. They HAVE TO have a new car every two years, and they have shitty credit, so they end up paying a stupid interest rate. It's a raw deal. Buying a slightly used car is ALWAYS the best option financially, but, again, sometimes there are exceptions. My husband and I for the first time ever leased a car, which is silly because we both already own our cars outright, but two rear-facing car seats don't fit in the back of either car and so we'll only need a bigger car for a short period of time. So, see, there I went and broke my own rules.

And people, PUT THE CREDIT CARDS DOWN.

Walk away, man, just walk away. They will only take you down a dark and twisty path of badness. Walk away.

The sad thing is, ALOT of people that I talk to are good, honest people who work very, very hard for their money and either they have not been exposed enough to the financial world to know a deal from a scam, or, and this is sadly often the case, or they didn't have health insurance and ended up with medical bills that they can't pay. Now, THAT is sick.

[jadnifer]

To address Chernobyl's original point:

So, I've been working in corporate finance for several years now and through a project through at my church I do free financial advising to low-income families.

And ALOT of people out there ARE getting ripped off. Chernobyl is right - often buying a house is a better choice than leasing or renting. Sometimes, though, you can't help it - you plan on moving within five years, your credit score is shit, your job is unstable, whatever. There are alot of reasons people don't buy, but I totally get Chernobyl's point, which is that people should at least fully CONSIDER owning a home instead of renting because often that is a better move in the long run.

But I think ALOT more people get screwed on their car rather than their housing. Some of the clients that I talk to are spending over $400 a month ON THEIR CAR! Their car! And THAT is what screws them over. They HAVE TO have a new car every two years, and they have shitty credit, so they end up paying a stupid interest rate. It's a raw deal. Buying a slightly used car is ALWAYS the best option financially, but, again, sometimes there are exceptions. My husband and I for the first time ever leased a car, which is silly because we both already own our cars outright, but two rear-facing car seats don't fit in the back of either car and so we'll only need a bigger car for a short period of time. So, see, there I went and broke my own rules.

And people, PUT THE CREDIT CARDS DOWN.

Walk away, man, just walk away. They will only take you down a dark and twisty path of badness. Walk away.

The sad thing is, ALOT of people that I talk to are good, honest people who work very, very hard for their money and either they have not been exposed enough to the financial world to know a deal from a scam, or, and this is sadly often the case, or they didn't have health insurance and ended up with medical bills that they can't pay. Now, THAT is sick.

Especially for older people that NEED more medical attention. Im not saying that younger people dont need it..but you see a lot of older people suffering with bad credit because they cant pay their prescription and medical bills. A lot of them go without their medicine or medical care because they simply cant afford it. It REALLY is sick!

[Onyx]

Just to comment on buying a house vs. renting.

My house I bought last year is the first one I've owned by myself. It took ALL my savings and also some I borrowed to get into. There should be more help for the average working man or woman to buy a house. I believe it would help our economy more than anything else.

It has cost me way way way more than renting ever did. So far it's ending up being around $500 a MONTH more in expenses.

I was not really prepared for that. I don't regret it, but I have to say, for some, buying will not be an option. I wish it could be, but the reality is, it costs more than the monthly payment.

With that said though, even though I'm working a side job for the next year until I get ahead again, it has totally been worth buying for me.