How Nice Is Too Nice

[predaking]

well, so far most of you have stated what I said in my defense. They were more or less knocking me for my less cocky attitude. I am a bit quite and some times shy, and I do believe in chivalry, none of those means I have no confidence in myself... my backbone is firmly in place. This was in no way a "nice guys finish last" topic but I do beileve assholes have a better chance. If there is a girl I like I have no problem calling her out, whats the worst she can say...no? I have been called on responding with whatever once, sometimes thats what it is, it doesnt mean that you are being a pussy about decission making. I learned caring from my mother who was an MT, I learned how to carry and project myself from my father who is a bass player, and kindness from both. When I was with my ex I made most of the decission and she jumped in when she wanted to or it was somthing big. The only time we got into it on decission making is when I got back into street racing (a way bigger confidence boost then ye ol takilla).

As for maturity...

I believe I am very mature for my age (which is annoying at times)

Big dick/sex

I'm average, I have no hangups about it and if you have to brag about ether then you don't know how to use what you got and you prolly suck at it and know it.

And sense this went to the relationship side of this big boat...

I dont NEED a relationship, thats just silly. They are crazy, irrational, hard, and at times make you wanna shoot yourself in the head. I've beenn doing fine all on my own. I WANT a relationship because *insert good answer here*, I want someone in my corner, I want someone to have a great connection with, I want to have someone to have great sex with (and no you can't get that from a shoot and scoot), etc.. the list can go on and on but I don''t think you will get the true answer till you find that person.

To end (till its replied to of course!)...

I think there are spineless pussies on both sides and to single out one is not fair to ether side.

I liked what Onyx said and I LOVED FC's rant.

there was more but my computer fucked me twice so this it my third time trying to type this, so I'm sure i missed somthing. I'll fill in the gaps later.

[TygerLili]

When you're an attractive woman, the jerks are usually the ones who approach you and the nice guys are the ones who either stand back and watch, or concede to the jerks who are competing for your attention.

Personally I tend to be interested in nice guys who can act a little assholish(I know that's not a real word, but you know what I mean) at certain times. Chivalry and manners and politeness are great, but you've gotta balance it out. We don't live in Victorian Era England. Confidence goes a long way, and so does the ability to not take everything, including yourself, seriously 24/7. I want a guy who I know isn't going to be afraid to call me out when he thinks I'm out of line, and who can laugh at himself when he knows he's being ridiculous.

I also think too many nice guys and girls make the mistake of overlooking others who are nice and going after assholes or jerks because they seem more attractive or exciting.

[Fierce Critter]

Lots of good stuff

It sounds like you have a good handle on things.

I'm not sure where your mother/whomever is coming from. So you're not cocky? So fucking what? Cockiness is often displayed with humor. Find a way to express your humor without being a sarcastic jerk, and you'll be fine.

I do think shyness can be debilitating when you're trying to meet people. So it might be something to be worked on. It doesn't give off "confident" vibes.

On the other hand, consider this scenerio. Party. LOTS of people. Most everyone is whooping it up, talking to each other, smiling, laughing. Then there's a guy standing by himself, holding up a wall, looking at the room but not really getting involved.

I am SO going to approach that guy. Because I find him enigmatic. I want to know his story.

I know that if Jon and I had seen each other at the little coffeehouse he used to hang out at and not online as we did, we still would have gotten together. Online, he was able to make the first move. But he used to go to this coffee house where he'd sit by himself, read a book or draw art, and just drink his drink. If I walked in and saw him sitting there doing those things, I would have been all fucking over him.

Here's something to consider. I'm glad you liked my rant. It stems from direct personal experience. I've been together/married to Jon for going on 10 years now. Jon started off VERY shy. Withdrawn, overly sensitive, prone to not standing up for himself.

We have a code word we use: Breadsticks. It originated when we were at a restaurant and Jon wanted breadsticks. I refused to ask the waiter for them, and made Jon. Jon found it really difficult to ask for the breadsticks, and when he did, it was in a really quiet voice, to the waiter's back as he walked away. He didn't get his breadsticks until I asked for them myself.

Now, we point out when he's having a "breadsticks" moment. A moment where he's not projecting himself confidently, and not getting what he wants/needs.

Over the years, I have actually actively worked on Jon - trying to get him to learn how to have some confidence, lose the fear of asking for what he wants, stand up to people, stand up for himself. This has included encouraging him when he stands up to me. I'm a tough cookie. I love Jon, whatever his manner. But I feel so much more confident myself when he is confident, too. When we're talking about going out to eat, and I ask, "where do you want to go?" he doesn't say, "I don't care" as much as he used to. He'll make a suggestion, and if I'm cool with that, we go there. If it's something I don't feel like, I'll say so and make a different suggestion - and that goes back and forth until we decide on something together.

Jon opens doors for me. But if I have to wait for him to run across the parking lot, I just open it myself. We have a really good relationship together, and the more his confidence grows, the better it becomes.

I wasn't always this strong, either. I was maddeningly "nice." I made a friend in my early 20's who used to see me interact one way with my family (sassy, joking, confident) and another way with her and strangers (shy, withdrawn, polite). She once said to me, "why can't you talk to ME the way you talk to your sisters?" And I thought about it.

I tend to be able to institute changes in myself overnight. And I did. She got me thinking. I saw how she interacted with people. She was brassy, tough, confident. Sometimes I thought she went too far - I saw her bully a car saleswoman to tears, and it didn't sit well with me. But I learned to project myself confidently, to not take shit from other people through that simple observation of hers. I find that the "confident lioness" is much more respected than the "scared bunny" was. But I won't be a "murderous dragon" like she was.

Just sayin'

Oh - a tip. Do a "select all" and "copy" before you hit the "add reply". It goes a long way toward keeping you from pulling your hair out from losing long posts.

[predaking]

It sounds like you have a good handle on things.

thanx

I'm not sure where your mother/whomever is coming from. So you're not cocky? So fucking what? Cockiness is often displayed with humor. Find a way to express your humor without being a sarcastic jerk, and you'll be fine.

My humor... i'm crude and morbid, not to meny people get it but I do try it out. Sometimes I get a laugh

I do think shyness can be debilitating when you're trying to meet people. So it might be something to be worked on. It doesn't give off "confident" vibes.

I know that goes against it's self and yea I do need to work on that, it does come in bouts

On the other hand, consider this scenerio. Party. LOTS of people. Most everyone is whooping it up, talking to each other, smiling, laughing. Then there's a guy standing by himself, holding up a wall, looking at the room but not really getting involved.

I am SO going to approach that guy. Because I find him enigmatic. I want to know his story.

This is usualy me, for your reason and it gives me a chance to observe everyone and everything around me, I learn ALOT doing this. Now wether I use what I learn...

I know that if Jon and I had seen each other at the little coffeehouse he used to hang out at and not online as we did, we still would have gotten together. Online, he was able to make the first move. But he used to go to this coffee house where he'd sit by himself, read a book or draw art, and just drink his drink. If I walked in and saw him sitting there doing those things, I would have been all fucking over him.

Here's something to consider. I'm glad you liked my rant. It stems from direct personal experience. I've been together/married to Jon for going on 10 years now. Jon started off VERY shy. Withdrawn, overly sensitive, prone to not standing up for himself.

We have a code word we use: Breadsticks. It originated when we were at a restaurant and Jon wanted breadsticks. I refused to ask the waiter for them, and made Jon. Jon found it really difficult to ask for the breadsticks, and when he did, it was in a really quiet voice, to the waiter's back as he walked away. He didn't get his breadsticks until I asked for them myself.

Now, we point out when he's having a "breadsticks" moment. A moment where he's not projecting himself confidently, and not getting what he wants/needs.

Over the years, I have actually actively worked on Jon - trying to get him to learn how to have some confidence, lose the fear of asking for what he wants, stand up to people, stand up for himself. This has included encouraging him when he stands up to me. I'm a tough cookie. I love Jon, whatever his manner. But I feel so much more confident myself when he is confident, too. When we're talking about going out to eat, and I ask, "where do you want to go?" he doesn't say, "I don't care" as much as he used to. He'll make a suggestion, and if I'm cool with that, we go there. If it's something I don't feel like, I'll say so and make a different suggestion - and that goes back and forth until we decide on something together.

Jon opens doors for me. But if I have to wait for him to run across the parking lot, I just open it myself. We have a really good relationship together, and the more his confidence grows, the better it becomes.

I wasn't always this strong, either. I was maddeningly "nice." I made a friend in my early 20's who used to see me interact one way with my family (sassy, joking, confident) and another way with her and strangers (shy, withdrawn, polite). She once said to me, "why can't you talk to ME the way you talk to your sisters?" And I thought about it.

My ex got on me about this same thing about me and my siblings. I just cant go around to anybody and every body and act like that, thats just me.

I tend to be able to institute changes in myself overnight. And I did. She got me thinking. I saw how she interacted with people. She was brassy, tough, confident. Sometimes I thought she went too far - I saw her bully a car saleswoman to tears, and it didn't sit well with me. But I learned to project myself confidently, to not take shit from other people through that simple observation of hers. I find that the "confident lioness" is much more respected than the "scared bunny" was. But I won't be a "murderous dragon" like she was.

Murderous dragon... I had a moment like that once a long time ago I wasn't at all happy with myself afterward

Just sayin'

We share alot of the same views on this, actually I know part of my moms statement came from came fact that I have to put in work to get a girl and they all just seem to love my brother so he doesn't and she couldn't understand why. Stupid reason I know.

Oh - a tip. Do a "select all" and "copy" before you hit the "add reply". It goes a long way toward keeping you from pulling your hair out from losing long posts.

My dumbass did this, but only once in the beginning so I only got half, I got to the last word and before I could hit add... bam there it goes.

[Der Nister]

When you start to question how nice should you be - you're being to nice.

When you start to feel like people are using you - you're being to nice.

When your best friend smacks you upside yo head for being to nice - you need thearpy.

[predaking]

When you start to question how nice should you be - you're being to nice.

you could be being too mean also

When you start to feel like people are using you - you're being to nice.

naw thats when you start busting heads

When your best friend smacks you upside yo head for being to nice - you need thearpy.

yeah, you're prolly right with that one

[jadnifer]

Too nice? That is something that I havent experienced very often.

My exes were jerks and werent nice anyway.

The man that I have now, we can actually have conversations and arguments without arguing if you know what I mean. Yeah, we have differences of opinion all the time, but we dont let it affect the relationship.

For example: We wanted to order pizza one night. He wanted a meat lover's pizza. I like that kind but its not my favorite. He was willing to order another whole pizza so that I could have the one that I wanted. I dont view that as being too nice. I view that as being a sweetheart.

Another example: We were going to go and see a movie. I was thinking about One Missed Call and he said that it really didnt interest him all that much. He suggested Charlie Wilson's War. I told him that that didnt interest me too much. We ended up seeing National Treasure, something we both decided on. That is an example of compromise.

We can have a difference of opinion without arguing and fighting. We have a calm talk about it. I love that. That is also not being too nice.

As far as the good sex part goes...if the relationship rocks...so will the sex...regardless of how "big" he is.

It's unfortunate that a lot of women go for the assholes. Its like they are intrigued by the bad boy image. I cant lie I like the "bad boy" image, but not necessarily the bad boy. Its sad when you see those women 5 years down the road and they wonder why you are married to this wonderful man and they dont have anyone. Maybe you should have been with the guy that was "too nice".

IMO--Unless you are hurting yourself, I dont think that there is such a thing as being too nice.

[tweetspie]

Too nice is someone like me.

I let two people walk over me and suck me dry of emotions, trust for everyone, and all of my money for a year without getting rid of them

I always buy at restaurants

I never buy myself clothes or things that I don't need. My friends literally FORCED me to buy a dress not too long ago.

I drive everywhere for other people and listen to whatever they want to listen to in the car

I put everyone else before myself

Not too long ago, shortly after losing my job, my friends phone broke. Instead of letting her be without a phone for a week until she got paid, I let her borrow $130 for a phone she didn't actually need (she could have gotten a cheaper one) as long as she paid me back. She was supposed to give me $100 that friday and then $30 two weeks later. It's been 3 weeks and I haven't seen a dime and I haven't said anything. I have a $100 ticket to pay on the 8th, and I'm still without a job. I still have enough money, but it's the point that I'm letting myself get walked on and not doing anything about it, even though I know I should

That's too nice

[xbittergracex]

Don't believe in "old fashioned" values like chivalry? Don't believe in holding open the door for the woman? Fine. But don't make the woman wear the pants all the fucking time.

Sigh. I get SO FUCKING SICK of the "nice guys finish last" conversations, just as Onyx warns.

YES!!!! YES!!!! It gets old. No offense to anyone, but I find that most of those 'nice guys' who moan and complain about never getting the girl....90% of the time are desperate (whether they admit it or not) or have absolutely no personality...they are just this blob of a person looking for love. I'm not trying to sound like a bitch here...its just in my experience...I saw this a lot.

"They don't NEED me, they WANT me."

Absolutely! This is the most important. It is not flattering at all for a guy to like YOU when he'd have liked ANYONE that gave him the time of day. Goes with that whole desperation thing I was talking about. If you live to be in a relationship...then a relationship becomes life...and it nothing special.

Oh please. You are seriously going to tell me that anyone would say "sure, that guy is mature, but this one makes me come seven ways from sunday" and not pick the one that is good in bed instead?

I've never had an IMMATURE guy make me come seven ways from sunday. THAT comes with maturity

So here's my opinion in my own words now lol.

There's a difference between just BEING a nice guy....an independent, confident, shit-together nice guy....and claiming to be a nice guy because you never get the girl. I've went on dates with guys so desperate *there's that word again* to impress me that I could have justified killing babies....and they'd have joined a march on Washington for it. Its annoying to talk to someone or try and strike up a conversation and have the extent of the other side be "oh for sure! I know what you mean. I totally agree. I think the exact same thing. You're right. About everything. I have no opinion, can I just have yours? I love you.... Lets get married" AHHH!

And even aside from desperation...if I just drop that totally because not all nice guys are desperate...please don't be offended.....but I find a lot of self-proclaimed 'nice guys' are such downers!

I just met this guy online. He's really nice, not bad looking, a little geeky, but in a cute way. So he was interested in me and we started talking via IM....and in the first conversation he said things like this:

"I don't understand, I'm a nice guy, and I go out on dates and never hear from them again."

"I'm really geeky though, thats probably why"

"why don't women like us nice guys?"

"We talk about whatever SHE wants to talk about..."

"I don't understand why girls don't like me"

"I think its because I live at home, but I take care of my sick mom."

"I only make $11 an hour too, maybe thats why."

None of that is why. Its because you're a total downer!

The guy I'm dating right now....is one of THE nicest guys I've ever met. But he's independent and would NEVER accept someone walking on him or any bs like that. He has his own opinions, and we differ on a LOT....but he states his opinion, and I state mine...and thats that. Its never judgemental or argumentative...and its refreshing to meet a guy like that.

so there's my thoughts....

[Head Wreck]

The man that I have now, we can actually have conversations and arguments without arguing if you know what I mean. Yeah, we have differences of opinion all the time, but we dont let it affect the relationship.

i dont call it arguing, i call it discussion or debate,

IMO--Unless you are hurting yourself, I dont think that there is such a thing as being too nice.

a very valid point. and being over emotional about things doesnt count as hurting.

YES!!!! YES!!!! It gets old. No offense to anyone, but I find that most of those 'nice guys' who moan and complain about never getting the girl....90% of the time are desperate (whether they admit it or not) or have absolutely no personality...they are just this blob of a person looking for love. I'm not trying to sound like a bitch here...its just in my experience...I saw this a lot.

verry verry true, was one myself untill i realised i wasnt a nice guy thats been taken advantage of, just a whinging asshole that everyone avoids :D

I've never had an IMMATURE guy make me come seven ways from sunday. THAT comes with maturity

So here's my opinion in my own words now lol.

thats maturity in a different sense imho, but i have nothing to base my argument on there.

There's a difference between just BEING a nice guy....an independent, confident, shit-together nice guy....and claiming to be a nice guy because you never get the girl. I've went on dates with guys so desperate *there's that word again* to impress me that I could have justified killing babies....and they'd have joined a march on Washington for it. Its annoying to talk to someone or try and strike up a conversation and have the extent of the other side be "oh for sure! I know what you mean. I totally agree. I think the exact same thing. You're right. About everything. I have no opinion, can I just have yours? I love you.... Lets get married" AHHH!

heh, yep that was me untill i started enjoying being single and embraced being an asshole of a differant sense

I just met this guy online. He's really nice, not bad looking, a little geeky, but in a cute way. So he was interested in me and we started talking via IM....and in the first conversation he said things like this:

"I don't understand, I'm a nice guy, and I go out on dates and never hear from them again."

"I'm really geeky though, thats probably why"

"why don't women like us nice guys?"

"We talk about whatever SHE wants to talk about..."

"I don't understand why girls don't like me"

"I think its because I live at home, but I take care of my sick mom."

"I only make $11 an hour too, maybe thats why."

tell him to STFU and stop being emo OR BE PURGED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE AS YE IS CAST DOWN INTO THE SIXTH LAYER, TO BE FEASTED ON FOR ALL ETERNITY BY DEMONS *cough* sorry, i dont know what came over me there

now i like independant women, i like the pleasantries of discussion on most subjects, i like to be given food for thouight, to assimilate and give birth to new patterns of thought.

women who agree and hang onto my every word dont do this for me

i det bored

so lets look at the boot when its on the other foot.

the girl dumped you because you have the persionality of a cardbourd cutout mass produced on an assembly line with the same drawstring sayings.

guys, listen to these two ladies

[Daevion]

This entire thread irritates me! I don't even know why! yeah I know its not a very nice thing to say....

...eh...I'm nice enough to the ones that deserve it!....I'm an asshole to the ones that suck! I really don't care what most people think. If I like you you'll know it.....if not well then go run in front of car for all I care!!

[xbittergracex]

guys, listen to these two ladies

I'm honored to be referred to in the same sentence as her and thanks!

This entire thread irritates me! I don't even know why! yeah I know its not a very nice thing to say....

...eh...I'm nice enough to the ones that deserve it!....I'm an asshole to the ones that suck! I really don't care what most people think. If I like you you'll know it.....if not well then go run in front of car for all I care!!

Yeah, but you're you and you rock.....so there ya go.

I'm not saying that being REALLY nice is a TERRIBLE thing...just know that the problems you get on a regular basis may be self-inflicted, so either get used to it or change what you WANT to and see if it works.

For the record I used to be a passive noodle-spine....so I'm speaking from my own experience as well...nobody likes to be walked on...regardless of sex.

well i guess some people like to be walked on during sex.....but thats a whole other post......

[Head Wreck]

i'm just an asshole

[xbittergracex]

i'm just an asshole

I'm not sure I buy that...but if you say so

[Head Wreck]

tis true. purely arogent and condesceding, and very very grumpy if i cant find any decent tea

[jadnifer]

I'm honored to be referred to in the same sentence as her and thanks!

As well as I am honored to be referred to in the same sentence as you.