So What Makes A Man?

[Steven]

Biased much?

I believe the reverse of what you said, kids from "complete homes" fare better

and what with all this..."Also when there's a mother and a father, the mother spends more of her time catering to the dad instead of her children (i.e. dinner, cleaning up his shit, argueing, etc). I mean, isn't he supposed to be grown? Come on!"? what the hell kinda households have you seen because I can assure you the this is not how it is everywhere.

now you say the kids esp. little boys do better learning from mom, now what happens if it was mom who took off and dad is pulling double duty?

what about the questions that the little boy would ask and mom can't answer? the same goes for father and daughter?

what about all the hate and resentment that is felt toward the missing parent?? is that not baggage?

and all that stuff you mentioned about learning I learn from my mother AND father, does that mean I have baggage from them both being around and none from when he left?

the last bit of your post are ALL symptoms of a single parent child.

it seems like you have a lot of hate towards men.

Bingo.

and what she described was a two party system that was WAYYYYYYYYYYY out of balance.....unhealthy is unhealthy, it has nothing to do with how many partners are involved.

I find it interesting that in both this thread - and the chivalry thread - that when somethign is presented in a warped or selfish manner it is the ACT itself that is called into question, and not the source of the action, which would be the people involved.

[Steven]

the level of equality is very high,

I do believe that is a good trend but the male role is losing its clarity, not because of women stepping up but because men are becomming more lazy and complacent. I think most of it stems from not wanting to take responsiblity for there own words and actions and some then seek to blame women as the cause. This is really seen in the broken family picture, instead of sharing the responsibilities and insuring the kids have a good home alot of these "men" shy away from the increased responsibility for whatever reason (unsure of what to do, never wanted the family in the first place, etc.) I personaly think it is a little damaging to the "family unit" kids look for the support of both parents and if one is in any way missing then the their development is a little stunted (ex. there are some questions that only mom can answer and there are some questions that only dad can answer).

awesome!

great post.

answered without defense mechanism engaged.

[Steven]

OMG! Yes! This is exactly why I see my ex-husband as a boy instead of a man. Personal time with our daughter is her alone in the house while he's in the garage or she's in her room while he's playing mature rated X-Box games in the living room.

(And yes, Steven's quote applies to either gender equally.)

*refills popcorn and resumes seat in front row*

thank you Love, and remember once more that I started this post addressing men, as a man who has concerns (I teach on these subjects in church, which frankly pisses off alot fo men, 99% of whom are full of shit) regarding how we are doing as men.

and you did a great job exemplifying everything that I've been trying to unpack here.

[Steven]

As my computer is messing up, I didn't get to read the ENTIRE thread, so forgive me if I repeat.

I'm only 16, but I think being a man is all about how you look at things.

I just want to bring up an interesting point here.

Let's all think for a second.

Since we were young, we've been taught feminism and masculinity. Correct?

From birth pink is used to mostly represent girls and blue represents boys.

Then we get to the stage in life where boys like trucks, cars, sports, etc...and girls like dolls, playing house, etc.

From there, we eventually find out that sex organs determine your gender (in most cases--this is what parents tell us).

So, considering that everyone has a different belief/religion, how do we know that what society calls a boy isn't actually a girl and vice versa??

Or...what if sex organs do not determine this at all?

Some people have the notion that they are for example a boy in a girl's body or a girl in a boy's body.

We have heterosexuality, homosexuality, and transgender, etc...

Look up the term "Genderqueer" if you will.

I myself will admit that I had gender identity issues when I was 15. Hence how I began getting called the "gay guy" in my group of friends. Even my family refers to me as my mother's "gay son".

I, personally, support gay/lesbian/bi/transgender pride. I really do.

But it all makes me think.

What if this notion of "being a man" is all perception??

Maybe I think too much.

But if this confuses anyone (considering I'm not good at wording things), think of it like this:

Look at a blue object. Why do you call it blue? You were taught at an early age what blue looks like. But nobody can see through your eyes. So what if what you were taught is blue is pink? Or some other color? What if orange to me is black to you? It could happen.

Names and vernacular in society are usually pretty generic and leave room for this theory of perception.

Anyone agree?

Thanks for reading through this. I hope I didn't get way too far off topic, I just wanted to make a point on my opinion.

:]

Good questions....very good.

and pretty brave at yoru age.

ok let's consider one thing here in terms of "perception"....just something for you to think about...

we have had some loose charges of "sexism" within this thread.

And I suppose to a certain degree.....that that is true.

Because I started this thread, excluding the ladies.

But I did that because Im a male.

ANd in this particular sitch....I'm looking only at males.....we can open a female thread later.

One consistent thing though, is that issues of sexuality never came up.

And Im thankful for that, because we've really been exploring charactor traits here.

and values. and tradition, and family history both good and bad and the inevitable end result as they manifest in our own relationships....and in your case, your future relationships.

So back to perception......

we have some mixed ones here.

Some of us lean closer to some form of an absolute, or at lest to some form of needed responsibility.

Others think its crap. A waste of time, easily taken up by any gender.

So all I can do is ask....."Is it working"?

[Steven]

You know, I keep hearing these people talk... about whats wrong with "the black community".. they refer to it as the "exodus of fathers" and how it is the main thing holding the black community back.

before I get accused of being racists.. it's black people I hear saying that.

Then there is the whole of modern psycology and it saying that young boys need a strong male figure in thier lives if the father is not there.

My point of view.. and mostof you are not going to like it...

Women raise boys. Men raise men.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (gee thats new) and say that this post was pretty fucking cool.

And not because its a shot at women, or at minorities.

But because its very succinct and I beleive it speaks volumes, even if we'd rather beleive in alternatives.

always...I personally am looking ofr the quality of the end result as a trend - in favor at looking at the "potential" of a new school of thought.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

It sounds overly simplistic I've long felt that if nothing else you need to be a man of your word. Keeping your word and trying to do the right thing for all involved not just yourself. Simple, but if put into practice it leads to positive results in almost everything you do. Its not just something you say, its something we need to DO.

REGARDLESS if anyone ever finds out if you are trying or not you do it. People may never, ever find out that your trying to be a man of your word and trying to do whats best for whatever area of life your working on, but you still try hard as hell to do it. Its an internal character issue, not something that necessarily requires other people to see it. Keeping your word includes keeping your own word to yourself. People tend to focus too much on their outward "personality" and not enough on the internal character.

Once you get into the mindset of "if i say im going to so something, im going to have to do it" you rapidly start being careful about what you agree to , and when you do agree to something you get it done.

This mindset would lead us to less fucked up relationships, longer-lasting marriages, better friendships etc. If you feel honor-bound to live up to responsibilities that you've taken on, shit gets done, and bullshit excuses for pussing out of responsibilities become very hard to come by. Because your enforcing a system of ethics on yourself, not just doing whatever crap you have to do to please your boss or wife etc.

It also tends to force you to stand up for your ideals. That doesn't mean your ideals are set in stone, they can change, but they shouldn't change based on whats easy, they should only change if they need to for you to better enforce your sense of what is right, and in keeping with your word you need to keep with yourself. Occasionally you might have to realize your being a dumb ass and set an unrealistic or unhealthy goal or took on a unworthy responsibility.

Your taking care of what you feel is important because its important to you and your family / friends / loved ones.

Can we all get caught biting off more than we can chew? Can we all be hypocrites at times? Sure. But that doesn't get us off the hook. Just because you fucked up in the past doesn't mean you get to slide and allow yourself to just be a fuck up for the rest of your life. Get your ass back in gear and get back to keeping your word to yourself and the world around you as much as you can. Its a never ending struggle, one that you'll often not quite succeed at, but you keep at it.

Ok damn that turned into a novel fast.... *stops typing*

[Steven]

I'm going to disagree with that. You're assuming that the women are raising them... and I'm not sure that's accurate. I think (To a significant degree) that the woman aren't doing the job either. They're on their own providing for the children.. which means they're at work a lot, busy a lot... tired a lot, which leaves the children with no strong role model at all. Then add in that some of those mothers aren't too super spiffy themselves. Call it a recipe for disaster in terms of raising emotionally healthy children. Boys and girls alike...

Also... I've seen good people come from broken homes. I don't think it's the norm, but it happens. I think genetics plays a role here. Some people are more resilient to bad parenting. Some take on the lessons the opposite of what was modeled for them.

To make your case, you would need to study lesbian parents and see what happens to the boys when they grow up.

OK, piss off time....hoep we dont thread jack too much here...

I have known, intimately, for years, several sets of lesbian parents. What can I say? Thats California.

and I know of some pretty tragic results to the boys that grew up in those homes. I dont know about daughters in lesbian homes, I have never seen that, but sons - YES.

Now here we are in Michigan - I have a friend who's wife is leaving him for a woman, a secret affair thats been going on for two years. Says she couldent fight the feelings anymore. OK, cool.

they have a 12 year old son.

who is tragically confused and angry.

and his natural iniclination (to the point where he asked his Dad to ask the judge to help him) is to stay close tot he father and live with him.

bear in mind that all of these people in the mix are technically "good" people. Nobody is getting abused. Mom is not a threat of any sort. Girfriend, is not a threat of any sort. and actually the whole thign has gone over pretty quietly for the sake of the kid. Nobody gay bashes in that home. These are very earthy, down to earth, loveable, musician/artist types of people who live a very drama free lifestyle.

But the kid - on his own - wants nothing to do with it - meaning he wants nothign to do with living within a Gay household with his Mom and her new girlfreind. It appears to me that his "natural" inclanation is to be able to relate on a more personal level - with another male, and that is his choice. He feels secure - with a male figure. He is pulled toward....a male figure. And that is because his father has always been very very invloved in the life of his son. As has his mom for that matter. But when the choice was made - he very quickly went in the male direction.

Now - I come from a broken home, with all of the typical ugliness associated with that situation, balh balh blah

I am also a minority.

and I grew up very poor.

I have 6 siblings.

every one of us - were fucked in the head.

every one of us - became our own individual cyclones that raged onto other people for years.

I pulled out of it for one major reason: someone - a male figure - entered into my life as a surrogate mentor - and he stayed committed to the cause. And one of the first things he taught me was that a man reaches out when he needs help. And a man humbles himslef by taking stock of where he REALLY is in life. And a man allows himself to be taught in order to accquire life tools so that he can give back.

thre was no genetics involved in my turn around.

and there was no personal sudden epiphany.....thats just not reality.

what there was - was a community based response from somebody who did it just because and who taught me to do the same thing, just because.

involvment, risk, based on somebody's personal value system, is what made the difference.

[Steven]

I'm not singling you out here... just using you as an example:

AGAIN... I fail to see how 99% of the things listed so far in this thread are exclusive to men. If this discussion is about what makes a Good Man... talk about things that are the exclusive provenance of men.

Marc.

if we were to start a thread called "How to build the ultimate driving 70's muscle car"

all kinds of different sorts of things would be offerred up.

and it would all apply to that particular idea, because we were not talking about 80's BMW's.

Even though many of those same types of equipment could be applied to the "other" type of car (the other white meat).

We wanted to know how to build one particular thing - and make it its utmost.

and it would have nothign to do with other models, and years.

because we were not talking about that.

we were talkign about this.

now - there are no things that are exclusive to the provenence of man, except peeing standing up....actually...maybe not even that.

but thats not what this thread is about.

I will now say for the umpteenth time - that I am in no way arguing exclusivity.

[Steven]

It sounds overly simplistic I've long felt that if nothing else you need to be a man of your word. Keeping your word and trying to do the right thing for all involved not just yourself. Simple, but if put into practice it leads to positive results in almost everything you do. Its not just something you say, its something we need to DO.

REGARDLESS if anyone ever finds out if you are trying or not you do it. People may never, ever find out that your trying to be a man of your word and trying to do whats best for whatever area of life your working on, but you still try hard as hell to do it. Its an internal character issue, not something that necessarily requires other people to see it. Keeping your word includes keeping your own word to yourself. People tend to focus too much on their outward "personality" and not enough on the internal character.

Once you get into the mindset of "if i say im going to so something, im going to have to do it" you rapidly start being careful about what you agree to , and when you do agree to something you get it done.

This mindset would lead us to less fucked up relationships, longer-lasting marriages, better friendships etc. If you feel honor-bound to live up to responsibilities that you've taken on, shit gets done, and bullshit excuses for pussing out of responsibilities become very hard to come by. Because your enforcing a system of ethics on yourself, not just doing whatever crap you have to do to please your boss or wife etc.

It also tends to force you to stand up for your ideals. That doesn't mean your ideals are set in stone, they can change, but they shouldn't change based on whats easy, they should only change if they need to for you to better enforce your sense of what is right, and in keeping with your word you need to keep with yourself. Occasionally you might have to realize your being a dumb ass and set an unrealistic or unhealthy goal or took on a unworthy responsibility.

Your taking care of what you feel is important because its important to you and your family / friends / loved ones.

Can we all get caught biting off more than we can chew? Can we all be hypocrites at times? Sure. But that doesn't get us off the hook. Just because you fucked up in the past doesn't mean you get to slide and allow yourself to just be a fuck up for the rest of your life. Get your ass back in gear and get back to keeping your word to yourself and the world around you as much as you can. Its a never ending struggle, one that you'll often not quite succeed at, but you keep at it.

Ok damn that turned into a novel fast.... *stops typing*

cool post.

I will only add this: that a person who lives well (ie balance and harmony and integrity) is pretty self evident and even attractive in a world breeding chaos. (You cant keep it to yoruself Troy, it oozes out of your pores, which is a good thing)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

http://extension.missouri.edu/cooper/fok/father_absence.htm

Research findings consistently reveal that warm and affectionate fathers not only can help their children develop positive self-esteem, but also influence the development of their children’s gender role behavior. Fathers are significant for both boys and girls. For instance, boys can learn from their fathers about growing up as a male, male interests, activities, and social behavior. Girls can learn from their fathers to develop a trusting comfortable relationship with men. Loving fathers also have a positive influence on achievement in boys and personal adjustment in girls. Loving fathers who provide limit setting, moral reasoning, and reasonable and firm guidance without imposing their will can help promote their children’s competence. Research on father-child involvement also shows that fathers are significant for children, sensitive to children and fathers’ play with children is different from mothers’. Obviously, fathers are just as important to their children as mothers.

http://www.atypon-link.com/SJP/doi/abs/10....bp.1980.8.1.107

In this study, 421 undergraduate students evaluated their natural mothers, natural fathers, and stepfathers (where applicable) by rating them on the Personal Attribute Inventory. The findings from this study indicated that parents from families broken by divorce were consistently more negatively evaluated than were parents from either intact families or families where the father had died. These findings held regardless of whether or not the mother had remarried and regardless of the sex of the students doing the evaluations

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanua.../chaptertwo.cfm

Children with involved, caring fathers have better educational outcomes. A number of studies suggest that fathers who are involved, nurturing, and playful with their infants have children with higher IQs, as well as better linguistic and cognitive capacities.9 Toddlers with involved fathers go on to start school with higher levels of academic readiness. They are more patient and can handle the stresses and frustrations associated with schooling more readily than children with less involved fathers.10

The influence of a father's involvement on academic achievement extends into adolescence and young adulthood. Numerous studies find that an active and nurturing style of fathering is associated with better verbal skills, intellectual functioning, and academic achievement among adolescents.11 For instance, a 2001 U.S. Department of Education study found that highly involved biological fathers had children who were 43 percent more likely than other children to earn mostly As and 33 percent less likely than other children to repeat a grade.12

[Msterbeau]

I will now say for the umpteenth time - that I am in no way arguing exclusivity.

OK.

[Msterbeau]

OK, piss off time....hoep we dont thread jack too much here...

I have known, intimately, for years, several sets of lesbian parents. What can I say? Thats California.

and I know of some pretty tragic results to the boys that grew up in those homes. I dont know about daughters in lesbian homes, I have never seen that, but sons - YES.

Now here we are in Michigan - I have a friend who's wife is leaving him for a woman, a secret affair thats been going on for two years. Says she couldent fight the feelings anymore. OK, cool.

they have a 12 year old son.

who is tragically confused and angry.

and his natural iniclination (to the point where he asked his Dad to ask the judge to help him) is to stay close tot he father and live with him.

bear in mind that all of these people in the mix are technically "good" people. Nobody is getting abused. Mom is not a threat of any sort. Girfriend, is not a threat of any sort. and actually the whole thign has gone over pretty quietly for the sake of the kid. Nobody gay bashes in that home. These are very earthy, down to earth, loveable, musician/artist types of people who live a very drama free lifestyle.

But the kid - on his own - wants nothing to do with it - meaning he wants nothign to do with living within a Gay household with his Mom and her new girlfreind. It appears to me that his "natural" inclanation is to be able to relate on a more personal level - with another male, and that is his choice. He feels secure - with a male figure. He is pulled toward....a male figure. And that is because his father has always been very very invloved in the life of his son. As has his mom for that matter. But when the choice was made - he very quickly went in the male direction.

Now - I come from a broken home, with all of the typical ugliness associated with that situation, balh balh blah

I am also a minority.

and I grew up very poor.

I have 6 siblings.

every one of us - were fucked in the head.

every one of us - became our own individual cyclones that raged onto other people for years.

I pulled out of it for one major reason: someone - a male figure - entered into my life as a surrogate mentor - and he stayed committed to the cause. And one of the first things he taught me was that a man reaches out when he needs help. And a man humbles himslef by taking stock of where he REALLY is in life. And a man allows himself to be taught in order to accquire life tools so that he can give back.

thre was no genetics involved in my turn around.

and there was no personal sudden epiphany.....thats just not reality.

what there was - was a community based response from somebody who did it just because and who taught me to do the same thing, just because.

involvment, risk, based on somebody's personal value system, is what made the difference.

OK... So what's your idea of "tragic"?

And I don't think you can use the case of people in Michigan to bolster your case. The boy's 12. A good chunk of his basic programming is behind him already. He's reacting to the breakup of the family he's known and grown comfortable with. He sees his mom's new partner as the "bad" one so he's expressing his anger in that direction. To truly validate how you feel about this, the lesbian couples should be raising them from birth.

[Steven]

OK... So what's your idea of "tragic"?

And I don't think you can use the case of people in Michigan to bolster your case. The boy's 12. A good chunk of his basic programming is behind him already. He's reacting to the breakup of the family he's known and grown comfortable with. He sees his mom's new partner as the "bad" one so he's expressing his anger in that direction. To truly validate how you feel about this, the lesbian couples should be raising them from birth.

Like Mellissa Ethridge and Julia Cypher ('sorry....I'm just not gay" quote from Julia after the fact) did?

In terms of the child we're discussing - yes I agree that his mother's lover is "the bad guy". anybody's outside influence is the bad guy, but your reducing the issue at hand here that were discussing by inserting an obvious roadbloak wiht the suggestiont that this is all thats really going on here...and thats just not true.

Your also possibly missing a couple of important things:

this child has been very vocal about where he feels safe right now.

some might argue that all that is is is repressed anger.

But some might call it what the kid calls it - a declared position of comfort, a safe place to fall.

You also missed something else - the kid responded to a lifelong pattern of intimacy between himself and his father, and so he is responding to the lengthy and consistent work that his dad has always done in the relationship - thats a good thing.

By reducing it to just "repressed anger" dismisses a very solid and flourishing Father and son relationship.

Remember too that the kid volunteered that he wanted to be with his Dad, and asked for assistance in that regard.

He's also very probably starting to put two and two togethor: since "Mom" had this secret life and girlfreind for over a year, Mom has also been telling us lies for over a year. And she's alos been making time away from him (the kid) to be with her - the fling.

Whether or not a kid can articulate it does nto matter: a child knows when they come in 2nd place.

Dad - represents consistency.

Mom - represents insincerity.

remember too Marc that Im NOT describing a traditional Judeo Christian family unit here. I'm talkign about an eclectic group of rock musicians that have surrounded themselves with anything but conservative influences. So what Im saying in this is that this kid has not been coached, nor is he naive. He simply does not accept it, or approve of it, or want to interact with it - and that is his right. Its his right to make that choice. And when his Mom then moves to begin "educating" this child - that education will come from the fact that she was a liar, and that will definately factor in.

ok.....as for tragic....fair question, and were going to measure differently based on our values but here goes in response to yrou question, with what I have seen first hand, starting with my next door neighbors, who lived an openly Lesbian relationship since one son was a few years old and the other was a toddler:

A) The inability to interact with confidence and ease in male to male relationships, both in terms of peer groups and then later with male relationships that represent positions of authority.

B) A general sense of shame and emberrassment (stigmas) that I know for a fact that these kids felt, in essence, and unfair burdon placed upon them by practicing adults.

C) The consequential isolationsim that follows.

D) repressed anger and rage

now the only reason Im bringing any of this up is because you seem to be suggesting that its all perfectly fine as long as its presented at an early age and that in theory people jsut need to be educated and more accepting.

but its just not that simple, in every case.

[Homicidalheathen]

A man is someone who doesn't bail on his kids.

[Homicidalheathen]

I almost hate to admit it but when it comes to raising kids I think this is prob the norm. They need both parents usually and a stable loving enviroment with a healthy routine.

However if your dad is an abusive fuckhead drunk maybe your better off without him.

Some women do a good job on their own.....I think it would have been to much for me personally.

http://extension.missouri.edu/cooper/fok/father_absence.htm

http://www.atypon-link.com/SJP/doi/abs/10....bp.1980.8.1.107

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanua.../chaptertwo.cfm

[Saint Germain]

.... "Isn't that what makes a man?"

"Um sure, that and a pair of testicles."

The Big Lebowski

[sass_in_the_pants]

I really like this topic.

I actually have alot to say on the matter, but I'll post it when I've got some more time.

[SuZQZ]

*Steals a few popcorns*

*steals a beer*

So, from what I've read, I summize the following: A good man is one who takes care of his kids, actively participates in raising his kids, has integrity, maturity where it counts, loyalty, morals/ethics/values, compassion, humanity, empathy, apathy, a sense of self-worth, self-respect, respect for others, recognizes duties and responsibilites to self and to others and strives to live up to them within his own power, and has a penis. Did I miss anything?

[predaking]

*steals a beer*

So, from what I've read, I summize the following: A good man is one who takes care of his kids, actively participates in raising his kids, has integrity, maturity where it counts, loyalty, morals/ethics/values, compassion, humanity, empathy, apathy, a sense of self-worth, self-respect, respect for others, recognizes duties and responsibilites to self and to others and strives to live up to them within his own power, and has a penis. Did I miss anything?

nope, I think you summed it up rather nicely (well at least from whats listed so far, i'm sure there is much more to add)

[SuZQZ]

nope, I think you summed it up rather nicely (well at least from whats listed so far, i'm sure there is much more to add)

I'm sure there is more to come.

*getting bigger tub of popcorn*

[Msterbeau]

*steals a beer*

So, from what I've read, I summize the following: A good man is one who takes care of his kids, actively participates in raising his kids, has integrity, maturity where it counts, loyalty, morals/ethics/values, compassion, humanity, empathy, apathy, a sense of self-worth, self-respect, respect for others, recognizes duties and responsibilites to self and to others and strives to live up to them within his own power, and has a penis. Did I miss anything?

Gives the woman in his life good lovins on a regular basis...

[SuZQZ]

Gives the woman in his life good lovins on a regular basis...

Doh! How could I miss that in the list? Yes, that goes in the "good" man column! To make it a bit rounder of a statement, we'll list it as honest attempts to be in touch with a woman's feelings, desires and needs. (Of course, what we really mean is making her howl in ecstacy like a wolf at the moon )

[Msterbeau]

Doh! How could I miss that in the list? Yes, that goes in the "good" man column! To make it a bit rounder of a statement, we'll list it as honest attempts to be in touch with a woman's feelings, desires and needs. (Of course, what we really mean is making her howl in ecstacy like a wolf at the moon )

You said "Good man column".

[Steven]

*steals a beer*

So, from what I've read, I summize the following: A good man is one who takes care of his kids, actively participates in raising his kids, has integrity, maturity where it counts, loyalty, morals/ethics/values, compassion, humanity, empathy, apathy, a sense of self-worth, self-respect, respect for others, recognizes duties and responsibilites to self and to others and strives to live up to them within his own power, and has a penis. Did I miss anything?

yes you missed one thing:

the location of where these types of men are hanging out so that the ladies in here can track them down....(except for Chernobyl who really just wants pancakes and to be left alone....)

[tweetspie]

*steals a beer*

So, from what I've read, I summize the following: A good man is one who takes care of his kids, actively participates in raising his kids, has integrity, maturity where it counts, loyalty, morals/ethics/values, compassion, humanity, empathy, apathy, a sense of self-worth, self-respect, respect for others, recognizes duties and responsibilites to self and to others and strives to live up to them within his own power, and has a penis. Did I miss anything?

Aside from the good lovins and where to find this perfect male specimen, a job, ideas of his own, the strength to stick up for those ideas, and he can't be an abusive rapist cheating drug lord.

There's a story behind that last statement. I'll leave it to your imagination