So What Makes A Man?

[Steven]

what makes a man?

I'd like to know your varied opinions, based on a recent "discussion" I had with someone.....

ladies and gents, let's all kick in on this one, as Id seriously like to know....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Being a man...

Is standing up for what is right...

Is accepting the consequences of what you do and say

Is protecting those weaker than yourself

I could right this list all day.

but you are opening a can of worms here. There are a few "men" on the board who somehow forget all communication skills when this subject comes up because there are a great many of the things that people would accept as "being a man" that does not apply to them. For them, it's easyer to pretend that they don;t know what you are talking about than admit they a spineless cowards.

[Msterbeau]

A penis.

[freydis]

A penis.

not necessarily.... lol

I know a woman or two who have one (who are very female), and a man who doesn't (and is very definately male).

I'd say it's more in word and deed and identity.

In the rather apt words of an Asatru author I have much respect for:

"We are our deeds." --Eric Wodening

[Homicidalheathen]

One that doesn't shun responsibility

[Marco Mchugh]

Being a man...

Is standing up for what is right...

Is accepting the consequences of what you do and say

Is protecting those weaker than yourself

I could right this list all day.

but you are opening a can of worms here. There are a few "men" on the board who somehow forget all communication skills when this subject comes up because there are a great many of the things that people would accept as "being a man" that does not apply to them. For them, it's easyer to pretend that they don;t know what you are talking about than admit they a spineless cowards.

I don't know about the last part but I agree with what you said in the first part. Most cultures do require a strong masculine figure and the family structure benefits from having this. Good topic Steven.

[creatureofthenyte]

Being a man...

Is standing up for what is right...

Is accepting the consequences of what you do and say

Is protecting those weaker than yourself

Having the courage of your own convictions helps too.

That and being able to admit when you're wrong.

[SuZQZ]

Ooh! Interesting thread. Can't wait to see some of the male perspectives.

*getting popcorn and a comfy seat in the front row*

[Steven]

Being a man...

Is standing up for what is right...

Is accepting the consequences of what you do and say

Is protecting those weaker than yourself

I could right this list all day.

but you are opening a can of worms here. There are a few "men" on the board who somehow forget all communication skills when this subject comes up because there are a great many of the things that people would accept as "being a man" that does not apply to them. For them, it's easyer to pretend that they don;t know what you are talking about than admit they a spineless cowards.

yeah I know its a potential can but still....I thought it was worth exploring, specifically because my personal perspective seem sto be so diametrically opposed to someone elses.....

anyway Mark thanks for posting this, and kudos to you , I like how you opened it up and I like what you said.

[Steven]

Having the courage of your own convictions helps too.

That and being able to admit when you're wrong.

excellent......courage should really be a bi product of true conviction should it not?

In other words if you truly know what you know....you simply "are"..... and are therefore consistent in both public and private interactions.....at least in my world its this way. I dont ask people to agree with me nor do I seek converts, but nobody ever has to guess where I stand on any given day, and I like that....I think its important.

admission of wrongdoing.....excellent!

to me this suggests humility, which I also think is the true key to power and the openor of many locked doors....thanks Brian...

[Steven]

I don't know about the last part but I agree with what you said in the first part. Most cultures do require a strong masculine figure and the family structure benefits from having this. Good topic Steven.

thank you for the kudos bro.

and so thinking along this subject.....how are we doing here in America in terms of having a strong male figure in our midst, and does it matter?

of course to me it does....but Im asking you guys.

[Steven]

One that doesn't shun responsibility

diggin you right now Windy....

then as men, are we therefore accountable to others?

our children?

our peer groups?

our intimate relationships?

because to me "responsibility" is drawn from some source of foundational absolute......?

[Steven]

A penis.

you dont fool me for a minute Mister.

[Steven]

In the rather apt words of an Asatru author I have much respect for:

"We are our deeds." --Eric Wodening

In my marriage in crisis class I teach a simple idea....that to truly unpack our priorities as men.....we merely need to take a look at what takes up the majority of our time and money.

Indeed....we are our deeds....(cool quote)

[Msterbeau]

excellent......courage should really be a bi product of true conviction should it not?

In other words if you truly know what you know....you simply "are"..... and are therefore consistent in both public and private interactions.....at least in my world its this way. I dont ask people to agree with me nor do I seek converts, but nobody ever has to guess where I stand on any given day, and I like that....I think its important.

admission of wrongdoing.....excellent!

to me this suggests humility, which I also think is the true key to power and the openor of many locked doors....thanks Brian...

Here's my problem... and we've been through this before: A woman can, and should, have these traits too. They are not exclusive to men.

Men are different from women... physically, physiologically and often emotionally. No doubt about that in my mind. But I feel like you guys are on a hunt for the old fashioned concept of "man" because people in general, and men in particular seem to be losing these qualities you espouse we should have. Yet, they are traits that ALL of us should aspire to. Honesty, courage, trustworthy, capable.. etc.

[Steven]

for me...yes Im looking for a return or at least an identification of what is apparently looked upon as old school or traditional. And Im not making any arguments that women can not exemplify these same qualities. I am however - asking for opinions on what should constitute the qualities of a "Man".....based on your own perspectives.

to me being male does not equate to manhood.

to some of you - it clearly does not either.

and I find that interesting.

[predaking]

I've heard alot of thing over my few years, most of them from a female perspective (my father left when I was 11)

the of the old school idea of a man...

one who is educated

holds a good job

takes care of his responsibilities (family, home, work, etc.)

is chivalrous

just to name a few

I have my own set of views that i've pieced together over the years through my own observations

courage (really open ended here because this could be applied to alot of things)

mindful of their actions

respectful

standing up for what you beileve

takes care of his responsibilities (family, home, work, etc.)

honesty

there is more but i'm to tired to remember

I think the idea of what a man is has has changed with the times as more and more women take on male roles and responsibilities.

I hope this makes some sort of sense

[Steven]

I've heard alot of thing over my few years, most of them from a female perspective (my father left when I was 11)

the of the old school idea of a man...

one who is educated

holds a good job

takes care of his responsibilities (family, home, work, etc.)

is chivalrous

just to name a few

I have my own set of views that i've pieced together over the years through my own observations

courage (really open ended here because this could be applied to alot of things)

mindful of their actions

respectful

standing up for what you beileve

takes care of his responsibilities (family, home, work, etc.)

honesty

there is more but i'm to tired to remember

I think the idea of what a man is has has changed with the times as more and more women take on male roles and responsibilities.

I hope this makes some sort of sense

made alot of sense.

ok so next question.......how are we doing today in society, with females having to step into the gap allegeldy left behind by male figures? Is it a good trend? are we improving ourselves and our family units? does it affect society at all?

for example whenever I turn on daytime TV and see an Oprah or a Doctor Phil or a whatevr type of show where you've got some form of chaos at home - I always see tow set patterns:

A) The male figure has long since split the scene.

B) The male figure is "there" by way of technicality, but he's pretty much impotent

[Steven]

some quick traits that come to mind in terms of being a man (in my world)

1) Consistency - how can anybody trust you when your behavior and commitment levels vary?

2) Intimacy - goes for wives, girlfriends, children, BFF's......the people that are important to me....I know very well how they tick and why, i know their stories, their fears, I know what excites them, what motivates them, I understand their own personal language, because I've worked very hard to have that sort of connection with them. They know all of my stuff as well.

3) Strength - which to me walks hand in hand with conviction. Life may be the irrepressible force but I am the immovable object. People in my life understand where my foundation lies and therefore when Im tested or even wounded you will find me there again and again.....

4) Identity - I dont know how to explain this one, save for the fact that i know who and what I am and why - and therefore what my life path is. It allows me to bi-pass vascillating during life changing moments. It keeps me from the clutches of indecision. It grants me the ability to sleep deeply regardless of whats going on around me.

5) Tenderness - I almost did not use this non PC word but fuck it - its a good word. One question I constantly ask myself - about myself (because I know my own hangups) - is "am I a safe place to fall?" Not only does my wife need this from me, so do my intimate friends, and I need it from them.

6) Wisdom - the jury is out on me with this one and I accept that. However I do not beleive in simply accquring information and data without an investment......until life application enters in, all of the knowledge in the world lacks impact.

7) Risk. Life requires change. Change requires pain. Pain stems from risk.

[Ice Queen (1)]

Here's my problem... and we've been through this before: A woman can, and should, have these traits too. They are not exclusive to men.

Men are different from women... physically, physiologically and often emotionally. No doubt about that in my mind. But I feel like you guys are on a hunt for the old fashioned concept of "man" because people in general, and men in particular seem to be losing these qualities you espouse we should have. Yet, they are traits that ALL of us should aspire to. Honesty, courage, trustworthy, capable.. etc.

I was thinking about what my answer would be, and I thought.....Wait a minute, I'm describing myself. Just to clarify; I am 100% woman. Responsibility, perseverance, respect are not really being taught in the home as much as they should be anymore to either gender.

[Destroit]

You have to be Brock Samson from the show Venture Bros.

[Destroit]

thank you for the kudos bro.

and so thinking along this subject.....how are we doing here in America in terms of having a strong male figure in our midst, and does it matter?

of course to me it does....but Im asking you guys.

From my personal experience (waits for flames), children tend to do better in single parent homes, especially boys.

Fathers in families are many times the ones responsible for instilling the idea of "gender identities" in children (i.e. "Would I want my boy to be a fag and play with Barbies!" or "Little girls don't do those things" How many times have you heard someone's mother say something like that? Not as much as fathers push those ideas, that's for sure). Fathers push little girls to be girly and boys to be "manly" and to me that's just wrong.

Also when there's a mother and a father, the mother spends more of her time catering to the dad instead of her children (i.e. dinner, cleaning up his shit, argueing, etc). I mean, isn't he supposed to be grown? Come on!

If mothers spend more time with kids they end up more emotionally satisfied, have a stronger relationship with the parent, and moreover - LEARN stuff from mom. Dumb little things, you know, like how to balance a checkbook. Or even life lessons. Whichever. That wouldn't have been learned if mom was spending her time catering to dad (or fighting with him)

Just my opinion based on observations in my life. I know probably an equal amount of kids that come from a home with two parents and a "broken" ( what a ridiculous and harmful term that is) home, and almost all of the kids from single parent homes are happy and functioning members of society whereas the kids that came from two parent homes usually have extra baggage, lower self esteem, are more self centered, do stupid shit to get the approval of peers, and generally don't fair well on their own in the real world.

[odims_sphere]

I was thinking about what my answer would be, and I thought.....Wait a minute, I'm describing myself. Just to clarify; I am 100% woman. Responsibility, perseverance, respect are not really being taught in the home as much as they should be anymore to either gender.

I was just thinking sort of the same thing. Every trait listed here seem to be equally good traits for women as well.

The only valid answer to what makes a man would have to be Marc's answer, which I'm sure was meant in jest, however it really is the only thing that a identifies us as men.

I do understand and applaud the spirit of the question though, but perhaps a better way of phrasing it would have been, "what makes a man a good man?". While the traits still equally transfer at least it would have narrowed the scope of the question to the male gender.

[Destroit]

some quick traits that come to mind in terms of being a man (in my world)

1) Consistency - how can anybody trust you when your behavior and commitment levels vary?

2) Intimacy - goes for wives, girlfriends, children, BFF's......the people that are important to me....I know very well how they tick and why, i know their stories, their fears, I know what excites them, what motivates them, I understand their own personal language, because I've worked very hard to have that sort of connection with them. They know all of my stuff as well.

3) Strength - which to me walks hand in hand with conviction. Life may be the irrepressible force but I am the immovable object. People in my life understand where my foundation lies and therefore when Im tested or even wounded you will find me there again and again.....

4) Identity - I dont know how to explain this one, save for the fact that i know who and what I am and why - and therefore what my life path is. It allows me to bi-pass vascillating during life changing moments. It keeps me from the clutches of indecision. It grants me the ability to sleep deeply regardless of whats going on around me.

5) Tenderness - I almost did not use this non PC word but fuck it - its a good word. One question I constantly ask myself - about myself (because I know my own hangups) - is "am I a safe place to fall?" Not only does my wife need this from me, so do my intimate friends, and I need it from them.

6) Wisdom - the jury is out on me with this one and I accept that. However I do not beleive in simply accquring information and data without an investment......until life application enters in, all of the knowledge in the world lacks impact.

7) Risk. Life requires change. Change requires pain. Pain stems from risk.

But...but...

Aren't women supposed to have all of that too?

Now I are honestly confused

If those are "men" traits, I then must (and totally for serious b/c I'd like to know) ask you...so what makes a woman?

[Steven]

I was just thinking sort of the same thing. Every trait listed here seem to be equally good traits for women as well.

The only valid answer to what makes a man would have to be Marc's answer, which I'm sure was meant in jest, however it really is the only thing that a identifies us as men.

I do understand and applaud the spirit of the question though, but perhaps a better way of phrasing it would have been, "what makes a man a good man?". While the traits still equally transfer at least it would have narrowed the scope of the question to the male gender.

re-phrased as reccomended with a side note that the premise of of this thread came from a charge that I needed to "be a man", because I lacked that basic knowledge and understanding.

yes I chuckled. but it also led me to post the thread, and so I asked you all - "what is a man?"

I think you all understand what I meant.....and I have posted no arguments against these traits not being available or encourageable in women...in fact there are some arguments being made in refute (seems that way at least) to points that I'm not really making, but again I was focusing on one gender for a reason, because I am the owner of my very own weiner.

SO - that being said - and in order to sidestep what seems to me to be neither here nor there since we will all post our opinions anyway, I respectfully am re-submitting the original question:

"what makes a man a good man?".

have at it spooky kids.