Miltary... Is There A Middle Ground

[odims_sphere]

Yeah... I think we could easily drift off topic into a military discussion somewhere else... who is more military than the other is kinda.... well yeah

Shouldn't really be a discussion, you either are.. or are not there is no in between.

Sounded like yoda there for a second... sorry about that ;o)

[phee]

In regards to military service... thoughts?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

How do you mean?

[phee]

The discussion was either someone is Military or not.... in regards to experience... for example, does ROTC count as "military" does living on an army base with someone who is in full time qualify as being "military"? Reservists verses full time.... those who have seen active duty verses those who have not?

etc...

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

I think the 'middle ground' would be the area a war takes place...ah-ha...ha...ha?

Seriously, I think the civilians involved are the 'middle ground'. Like with the USA vs Iraq, it would be us and Iraq-ians (I don't know what the plural form of the country, that's NOT meant to offend, I'm just ignorant).

[phee]

Like I said... my experience ends at my GI JOE figures...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

or

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

If you have never said one of those two oaths, you are not military. At least not to me. You may have some paramilitary experiance from ROTC or the local militia... but until you put the uniform on, take the oath and pick up your weapon... you are pretending.

[odims_sphere]

Unless you've stood there and had a drill instructor say to you "welcome to the army" at your basic training graduation you have no idea what it's like to be in the army.

I'm sure the same goes for the other branches.

ROTC does not count.

Mommy or Daddy being a soldier does not count.

And even further than that within the army it's self unless you've been deployed to a war zone you have no idea what it's like, I don't care how much paintball you've played.

[odims_sphere]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

or

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

If you have never said one of those two oaths, you are not military. At least not to me. You may have some paramilitary experiance from ROTC or the local militia... but until you put the uniform on, take the oath and pick up your weapon... you are pretending.

This is the best possible answer.

Thank You

[phee]

This is the best possible answer.

Thank You

Heh...

What about spouses in the military? I know they are not "military" but what about their knowledge?

[phee]

More to the point.... do you think someones opinion in regards to the military is valid simply having had a lot of exposure/education/training.... but without signing a contract? A spouse or a person who studies military history, or an imbeded reporter?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

They know how to be the spouse of someone in the military. Just like a cops wife knows how to be a cops wife, not how to be a cop.

[odims_sphere]

Heh...

What about spouses in the military? I know they are not "military" but what about their knowledge?

I'm about to get myself in trouble here...

They are the worst possible wanna-be military. and I'll just leave it at that before I really start problems.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Opinions are always valid. They are not always correct. Not even an embedded reporter knows what it's like to be a soldier. They know what it's like to be on a battle field and be under fire... but they have no idea what it feels like to kill. The responsibility that uniform brings.

But what opinion are we talking about?

[Steven]

The discussion was either someone is Military or not.... in regards to experience... for example, does ROTC count as "military" does living on an army base with someone who is in full time qualify as being "military"? Reservists verses full time.... those who have seen active duty verses those who have not?

etc...

ROTC?

fukkkkkkkkkkkkkkk no.

Full time reservists.....I'd say yes, especially in light of the last few years and how many get shipped off overseas

[Steven]

I'm about to get myself in trouble here...

They are the worst possible wanna-be military. and I'll just leave it at that before I really start problems.

no truer words my brutha, no truer words.

[Steven]

More to the point.... do you think someones opinion in regards to the military is valid simply having had a lot of exposure/education/training.... but without signing a contract? A spouse or a person who studies military history, or an imbeded reporter?

you are either a soldier or you are not - for a hundred different reasons that all soldiers understand and all who have not been soldiers often do not understand.

I would apply this to jsut about anything in life anyway - a studied approach is a safe approach, it does not make you become.

Signing a contract is not what makes you a soldier - living the life is what makes you a soldier.

[Steven]

And even further than that within the army it's self unless you've been deployed to a war zone you have no idea what it's like, I don't care how much paintball you've played.

I would agree with even this.

I was soldier but I was not in a forward area during my tour.

[Jadis]

I'm about to get myself in trouble here...

They are the worst possible wanna-be military. and I'll just leave it at that before I really start problems.

I never ONCE pretended to know ANYTHING about how the military worked or that I was in any way (other than a daughter of a Navy Dad & Mom, and an Army wife) part of the military if that's what you're getting at.... but I know you know that... so speak your mind, you won't offend me.

... as far as the military goes ... I agree that unless you join it, you don't know what -really- happens. Your life may be effected by your parents or spouse who are in the service but that doesn't mean you know anything.

[phee]

Interesting responses...

A lot of people who are in charge in the military (as I understand it) actually have not had the same experiences as others... Generals and officers for example...

The Commander N Cheif himself got out of his military service...

I guess the question is... Does not being in the military/been in the military have the right to form an educated opinion?

[Head Wreck]

your either in it or not.

end of.

as to military history, We have a local university airsoft team who were friendly with, thier president studdies military history, as good asjohnny is, he's the furthest from military we can think of as i've had to drag him away from real military people whom he just marinaded his boot in saliva on front of.

i am not military. wanted to be, but not physically fit to be

[Jadis]

I guess the question is... Does not being in the military/been in the military have the right to form an educated opinion?

I think... that if you have been in the military you have a right to form an educated opinion about things that involve the military relative to your personal experience/what you've been taught.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Everyone has the right to form an opinion. Always. Yet, having the right to form an opinion does not in anyway make the opinion formed... correct or valid.

As an example I will use myself. From my life experience, all the reading I have done... all the people I talk to... I'm pretty sure I could be President. I have a pretty good idea what the job entails.. the stress, the long work hours and decisions. But I am truthful, I have no idea what it's really like to BE president.

[Head Wreck]

one thing i've gathered, its ok to know about military stuff, but it is very verry differant in the field.

i've actually been watching a series "Ross Kemp In Afghanistan" its worth getting it on a torrent if you can as its got a lot of actual front line footage, the paranoia of patrol and a few wanderings into Afghanistan's green zones

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

But what about those that are closest to the soldiers? What about those bearing the after effects of a war with those that have served? Like wives, close friends, family, they too have to bare burdens with them, comfort them from waking up in a cold sweats from nightmares, or flash backs and relapses from their closest friends falling dead right next to them? The emotional entrails they go through can (I say "can" cause I have no idea what it's like to be in service, thus probably have no right to compare it to serving.) be just as a bad as being in a war, couldn't it?

I say this, cause I've watched my mom suffer through watching my grandfather (my REAL grandfather that is, the grandfather I have lived with is actually my step-grandfather) relapse and hallucinate through his WW 2 experience while he had Alzheimer's before he died. Seeing her like that was traumatic for me.

I think it's unfair to say "They are the worst possible wanna-be military."