Miltary... Is There A Middle Ground

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Does burning your finger while stoking the fire really give you an idea of what it's like to be completely engulfed in fire?

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

Does burning your finger while stoking the fire really give you an idea of what it's like to be completely engulfed in fire?

Well, no. I see what you're saying. I just don't think it's fair to count them out as a valid opinion, they know about the after effect.

[ttogreh]

I think the basic nut of this thread has been pretty well answered. It is pretty unambiguous: if you have never sworn an oath, signed the contract, put the uniform on, and put boot to ground for God and Country, then you are not "military".

Of course, the real point of contention here, is whether or not a non "military" person can, through other life experiences and academic knowledge, form a thoughtful, accurate and altogether valid opinion on a "military" subject.

As has been discussed before, I freely admit that I know very little about what it means to be "military", but I maintain my assertion that I can form a valid opinion on... in general terms... how the military should and should not be used.

Specifics, such as urban warfare, community relations, logistics, indeed, tactical minutiae, I leave that to the Generals, Colonels, Majors, Captains, Lieutenants, and in my humble opinion, most importantly the Sergeants on the ground.

Strategy... such as whether or not the United States military should attack a country... I feel that I have enough general knowledge to form a valid and in many cases correct opinion.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Let me say again. All opinions are valid. They are not all "correct".

Specifics, such as urban warfare, community relations, logistics, indeed, tactical minutiae, I leave that to the Generals, Colonels, Majors, Captains, Lieutenants, and in my humble opinion, most importantly the Sergeants on the ground.

Strategy... such as whether or not the United States military should attack a country... I feel that I have enough general knowledge to form a valid and in many cases correct opinion.

Smartest thing you have ever said.

but really, I'm not sure where this topic came from and why it came up. What are we really talking about?

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

I think the basic nut of this thread has been pretty well answered. It is pretty unambiguous: if you have never sworn an oath, signed the contract, put the uniform on, and put boot to ground for God and Country, then you are not "military".

Of course, the real point of contention here, is whether or not a non "military" person can, through other life experiences and academic knowledge, form a thoughtful, accurate and altogether valid opinion on a "military" subject.

As has been discussed before, I freely admit that I know very little about what it means to be "military", but I maintain my assertion that I can form a valid opinion on... in general terms... how the military should and should not be used.

Specifics, such as urban warfare, community relations, logistics, indeed, tactical minutiae, I leave that to the Generals, Colonels, Majors, Captains, Lieutenants, and in my humble opinion, most importantly the Sergeants on the ground.

Strategy... such as whether or not the United States military should attack a country... I feel that I have enough general knowledge to form a valid and in many cases correct opinion.

Agreed.

[GothicRavenGoddess (3)]

Okay, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I have had a lot of experience with ppl in the military. All of which were bad... Not to say that everyone I know is now corrupted by the military.. Candy and I had a very interesting conversation at her that Christmas party... I'm just saying... my parents had bad experiences, and so did an ex of mine. But anyways. I do not support this war, but I support the ppl fighting it. I'm not even going to sit here and say "I know what you are feeling/going through. ect" But I am a friend/someone to talk to. My ex had it REAL bad.... he was so ready to go to war, when he signed up, but seeing friend after friend come back in pieces, was something that he definitely was not ready for... He got a medical discharge for being "too dangerous" or something. I don't know. It just breaks my heart... I don't know. I... I just don't know... yeah.....

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

Let me say again. All opinions are valid. They are not all "correct".

Smartest thing you have ever said.

but really, I'm not sure where this topic came from and why it came up. What are we really talking about?

It was just a random topic starter. To get others' opinions on the topic, if I'm not mistaken...

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

I'm not even going to sit here and say "I know what you are feeling/going through. ect" But I am a friend/someone to talk to. My ex had it REAL bad.... he was so ready to go to war, when he signed up, but seeing friend after friend come back in pieces, was something that he definitely was not ready for... He got a medical discharge for being "too dangerous" or something. I don't know. It just breaks my heart... I don't know. I... I just don't know... yeah.....

Case and point.

[SuZQZ]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

or

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

If you have never said one of those two oaths, you are not military. At least not to me. You may have some paramilitary experiance from ROTC or the local militia... but until you put the uniform on, take the oath and pick up your weapon... you are pretending.

I had to do the top oath when I was sworn in as an Army Civillian. I have no misconceptions, though. I don't consider myself military. My role is military support. My job and duty is to support our troops and support the logisticians who support our troops.

[ttogreh]

SuzyQZ, could you ever be in a position where you would have to perform your job duties in a life-threatening environment?

[Steven]

SuzyQZ, could you ever be in a position where you would have to perform your job duties in a life-threatening environment?

why do you ask this??

[ttogreh]

Well, she swore an oath, and provides vital support to the military. If she may be put in a position of danger to do as much, I would be inclined to say that she is by far, indeed, by leaps and bounds, more "military" than I am.

[CandyQuackenbush]

SuzyQZ, could you ever be in a position where you would have to perform your job duties in a life-threatening environment?

Go overseas as a DOD Civilan and find out. They do alot, even if it's taking care of our PX's, and all of our M.W.R's.

Some of them actually DO convoys. They are the truck drivers, they are equpiment operators, they are even gate guards in Kuwait.

They help us when we are holding down the front line.

Thank you SuzyQz, it takes alot to take your Oath as a DOD Civilian.

[know_buddy_kares]

As far as military goes, I agree with gaf about the oaths... Reservists is a grey area, but they still count... they were just the smart ones and/or had a good job.

As far as spouses of servise members are concerned...

NO!!!!!

I could write a book on the topic of stupid wives who think they have their husband's rank and authority.

ROTC is good training i suppose, I don't know I've never been there, but I don't think it counts.

As for grey areas, I don't really see any... even if you are a civilian and get caught in the middle of a war and are combating against military forces... you are a combatant.

And as for not going through boot camp... compared to the years of service I've done... boot camp is merely a freaking joke compared to all the bullshit one has to put up with in the fleet.

[CandyQuackenbush]

My views, and take them as you want.

ROTC: Does NOT count towards any military experience if you just take it because it was offered at your school. JROTC is offered in Highschool, but doesn't mean anything if you don't graduate, or join the Military. ROTC only counts if you did your time in college after Basic Training, got your MOS *your job*, and then trail off to Officer Canidate School (OCS)

If you are in the Military, your opinion should hold more value about current events over seas than the Average Joe who watches it on the news. Does that mean that Soliders, Marines, Seamen, and Airman's opinions get voiced, yes. There are millions of us. Now, does our opinion mean anything, no.

Saddly, the bigger your Annual Salary, the more of the upper hand you have.

Do Department Of Defense Civilans count as military? You damn right they do.

Does a child raised in a military family have any views on the military? Why would they? They are only hearing what their parents did/do. Being a child of the military only means that you are a child of the military. Unless you take your Oath, you bear no right to tell anyone Enlisted, or Officer how things are ran.

One of my Drill Sgt's from Basic training actually told us that. His son had gone on more Helicopter rides, and Chinhook rides than the Soliders going through Areosault School. He said that was the perk, and the only perk to being a "Military Brat".

But plan and simple:

Sign your life away, and take your Oath. Then the Military will listen to you.

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

As far as spouses of servise members are concerned...

NO!!!!!

I could write a book on the topic of stupid wives who think they have their husband's rank and authority.

Ok, I agree slightly. I mean, being married to a celebrity doesn't make you a celebrity. And those who say, "My spouse is a soldier, gimme a free Big Mac!" SHOULDN'T be even considered. Bragging for glory...

But, I refer to those who sit by an internally injured soldier's bed, with tear soaked tissues in their hands. Are you telling me their opinions,voices and experiences shouldn't be heard?

[CandyQuackenbush]

Ok, I agree slightly. I mean, being married to a celebrity doesn't make you a celebrity. And those who say, "My spouse is a soldier, gimme a free Big Mac!" SHOULDN'T be even considered. Bragging for glory...

But, I refer to those who sit by an internally injured soldier's bed, with tear soaked tissues in their hands. Are you telling me their opinions,voices and experiences shouldn't be heard?

I agree with your first statement.

Now for the part with the injured solider, they have a right to their opinion just like everyone, but (and this is a real tear jerker, because I know of this happening) when your solider spouse is injured in war, your voice will fade to a white noise just like the rest of the troops overseas.

It's sad really. There are Military spouse that take so much time to be apart of a Family Readiness and prepare for the worse, but when the shit hits the fan, the Military will turn it's back because your wounded spouse is no longer useful to it.

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

I agree with your first statement.

Now for the part with the injured solider, they have a right to their opinion just like everyone, but (and this is a real tear jerker, because I know of this happening) when your solider spouse is injured in war, your voice will fade to a white noise just like the rest of the troops overseas.

It's sad really. There are Military spouse that take so much time to be apart of a Family Readiness and prepare for the worse, but when the shit hits the fan, the Military will turn it's back because your wounded spouse is no longer useful to it.

In a way, I kind of knew that. I just didn't want to accept it. It anger and disgusts me that they can view human beings as cattle.

But, in a way, I kind of understand. The military needs 'weapons' to defend it's country, not 'emotional baggage'.

That IN NO WAY means I think it's right though.

[CandyQuackenbush]

In a way, I kind of knew that. I just didn't want to accept it. It anger and disgusts me that they can view human beings as cattle.

But, in a way, I kind of understand. The military needs 'weapons' to defend it's country, not 'emotional baggage'.

That IN NO WAY means I think it's right though.

Yeah.... true....

Hence the reason why I am so affraid of getting a disablity over 30% from the VA. If you have 31%, you can be discharged from the military.

[know_buddy_kares]

Yeah.... true....

Hence the reason why I am so affraid of getting a disablity over 30% from the VA. If you have 31%, you can be discharged from the military.

True, for a while if you got injured before you finished your tour in iraq, the government would make you give back the bonus you signed up for. Fortunately that has changed and you get to keep it.

Also about disability, play it smart, if you know you can get over 30% disability, do it when you are ready to leave. I could rate 50% alone for my back, and more for other ailments from the marines... its in my medical records, but I tough the pain out everyday.

We serve a goverment that I fully believe doesn't give a shit about us, or it's civilian citizens. Hence, why I'm only fucking in for the damn paycheck and aint afraid to admit it. When it comes to honor, I've honestly lost faith in the military from all the bullshit i've witnessed. My honor remains true to my friends and family back home, and it is crazy talk, but if anything were to happen in michigan, it wouldn't be a question, I'd be there, AWOL and all to defend those who have EARNED my respect. I'd much rather put my life at risk for something worth while like that, not this cluster fuck bullshit, aka, Iraq.

[CandyQuackenbush]

True, for a while if you got injured before you finished your tour in iraq, the government would make you give back the bonus you signed up for. Fortunately that has changed and you get to keep it.

Also about disability, play it smart, if you know you can get over 30% disability, do it when you are ready to leave. I could rate 50% alone for my back, and more for other ailments from the marines... its in my medical records, but I tough the pain out everyday.

We serve a goverment that I fully believe doesn't give a shit about us, or it's civilian citizens. Hence, why I'm only fucking in for the damn paycheck and aint afraid to admit it. When it comes to honor, I've honestly lost faith in the military from all the bullshit i've witnessed. My honor remains true to my friends and family back home, and it is crazy talk, but if anything were to happen in michigan, it wouldn't be a question, I'd be there, AWOL and all to defend those who have EARNED my respect. I'd much rather put my life at risk for something worth while like that, not this cluster fuck bullshit, aka, Iraq.

I used to say that all the time.

"I'm only here for the Paycheck."

-or my favorite-

"I'm here for the beer and bitches. Wait, we can't have beer in Iraq. DAMNIT, I don't wanna be here for the bitches!!!"

[know_buddy_kares]

I used to say that all the time.

"I'm only here for the Paycheck."

-or my favorite-

"I'm here for the beer and bitches. Wait, we can't have beer in Iraq. DAMNIT, I don't wanna be here for the bitches!!!"

fuck... i'm constantly reminded i can't drink when i go to iraq....

fuck...

but i do wish to note it's not the military it's self that has made me see there's no pride or honor within it, it's the people. fucking assholes with no life experience or ability to lead favored among the ones that truly work and try to make the best decisions...

i fucking hate dealing with stupid people, and damn there's a shitload of em in the military...

...sigh... i would have soooo gone for military intelegence of my dept didn't stop me from picking that... the bonus was higher too...

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

We serve a goverment that I fully believe doesn't give a shit about us, or it's civilian citizens.

Amen.

[odims_sphere]

fuck... i'm constantly reminded i can't drink when i go to iraq....

I wouldn't worry about that. It's almost as easy to get it there as it is here. Just don't get caught

[DeadBurgerKing (10)]

I wouldn't worry about that. It's almost as easy to get it there as it is here. Just don't get caught

You, sir, are a BAD influence!!