Charles Barkley Calls Conservatives "fake Christians"

[Msterbeau]

Oh yes he did...

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...ORTS13/80216025

[Steven]

honestly, I thought he sounded a bit like a meathead - not only is he inarticulate, he appears to have a limited grasp of the scripture that hes attempting to quote from beyond the dinner conversation variety of knowledge.

By the way Im pro Choice - and yet Im a conservative.

Yes there is bad Ju Ju among the ranks - but you can find that same hypcricy in literally any organized group of peoples.

[know_buddy_kares]

Well, CB isn't the brightest bulb here... so I think he's beond his league in that type of discussion. There are a few bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. Those nut jobs that scream about being republican, conservative, and christian all on their same horn are those bad apples.

However for anyone to think a washed up has been basketball player who liked to elbow chinese in the olympics is going to have any sway or impact on the general populations political interest really needs to pass the fuckin pipe this way..

...they're smokin some really good shit.

[ttogreh]

Everybody has an opinion. In matters of faith, sometimes people have more than one. In any event, I believe that just because a person who professes a belief in the gospels and divinity of Christ, but acts in manners that are not Christ-like... that does not cause that person to not be a Christian.

We are all hypocrites. We all lie, and we all fall short of our ideals. As such, I find the idea of calling a person "fake"... doesn't really help.

[know_buddy_kares]

I'll agree there. I mean being a hypocrite has it's certain levels in my opinion. When you are a hypocrite to the core principles of what you claim to stand for.... well that's just giving a bad name for everyone else that shares your stance, be it in politics, religion, ect. One of my biggest pet peeves concerning hypocrisy is when people judge others and try to dictate how they conduct themselves in their own personal and private lives, and yet think no one should do that to them.

[jadnifer]

We are all hypocrites. We all lie, and we all fall short of our ideals. As such, I find the idea of calling a person "fake"... doesn't really help.

Would you be able to explain yourself a bit better here? I'm not saying that I'm offended by your statement...but as far as I know, I'm not a hypocrite nor am I a liar.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

He does a piss poor job of making his point thats for sure. The underlying point i think hes trying to make is interesting and perhaps valid, but hes running off at the mouth about something he doesn't seem to fully understand. Basically insulting the "fake Christians" for doing something he himself is doing in a sense.

As to his (i think) point: Generally the "roll your own Christianity" and "I believe in whatever i like about the bible and either ignore, or make up my own interpretation of whatever i don't like..." variety of Christians if not the majority, are surely legion. I'd call them not "fake Christians" but basically just people that should realize they are making up their own secular world view and not try to pretend they are basically-based "Christians."

I have a sort of grudging respect for hardcore literalist christians, at least they know what they believe, they continue to believe things that might be abhorrent (morally) and crazy (scientifically) to modern civilization. Their worldview based on the actual bible. Not some new-age homemade, randomly read a few scriptures one day and make up some shit as they go along system that seems to be gaining popularity.

Grr.. god damn google spellchecker...

[Steven]

He does a piss poor job of making his point thats for sure. The underlying point i think hes trying to make is interesting and perhaps valid, but hes running off at the mouth about something he doesn't seem to fully understand. Basically insulting the "fake Christians" for doing something he himself is doing in a sense.

As to his (i think) point: Generally the "roll your own Christianity" and "I believe in whatever i like about the bible and either ignore, or make up my own interpretation of whatever i don't like..." variety of Christians if not the majority, are surely legion. I'd call them not "fake Christians" but basically just people that should realize they are making up their own secular world view and not try to pretend they are basically-based "Christians."

I have a sort of grudging respect for hardcore literalist christians, at least they know what they believe, they continue to believe things that might be abhorrent (morally) and crazy (scientifically) to modern civilization. Their worldview based on the actual bible. Not some new-age homemade, randomly read a few scriptures one day and make up some shit as they go along system that seems to be gaining popularity.

Grr.. god damn google spellchecker...

Troy....sort of a half jack but....where do you place ME categorically?

and Im not baiting or setting up a rebuttal or anything .... Im just generally interested.

[Steven]

I would have to say that, from what I've seen of Americans, most Christians are fake Christians.

I dont have a problem wiht what your saying here but I would like to ask you to define what a "genuine" Christian is.

and then cite your foundation for authority's sake. Im not going to rebutt it - Im just looking to understand.

[Msterbeau]

I dont have a problem wiht what your saying here but I would like to ask you to define what a "genuine" Christian is.

and then cite your foundation for authority's sake. Im not going to rebutt it - Im just looking to understand.

If I may answer this too...?

I think he's alluding to people who claim to be Christian yet don't follow the rules/dogma of the religion they profess to belong to. I certainly experienced this sort of hypocrisy at the Catholic church I grew up in. Mean-spirited, judgmental, abusive bunch of assholes. Obviously not all of them but enough to taint the pool.

[Homicidalheathen]

I agree. How can you preach peace and love when you have no tolerance for letting others live their own life their own way?

Its the ones that get pushy about their 'beliefs' that get to me........cause thats all it is. Many people all over the world in many different tribes live accourding to different sets of laws and moral values.......some being very different from our own.

Hell there is a tribe in aftrica someplace where the women have 4 husbands one after another......

Oh you think thats horrible? It helped them propigate their tribe.........

Thats mother nature. Its not 'wrong' or 'bad'. It just is. If you watch them.....even though they live a simple and hard life.......they are very happy and balanced.

I would have to say that, from what I've seen of Americans, most Christians are fake Christians.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Um... being pushy about thier faith is a core Christian value. They are sopposed to convert or at least try to convert everyone they encounter.

[phee]

Um... being pushy about thier faith is a core Christian value. They are sopposed to convert or at least try to convert everyone they encounter.

That is absolutely correct... the same is true for Muslims....

[Steven]

If I may answer this too...?

I think he's alluding to people who claim to be Christian yet don't follow the rules/dogma of the religion they profess to belong to. I certainly experienced this sort of hypocrisy at the Catholic church I grew up in. Mean-spirited, judgmental, abusive bunch of assholes. Obviously not all of them but enough to taint the pool.

understood.

I think the hard part here is also being able to define in a wide sense, what is and is not Christianity.

I know I dont fit the mold for many typical Judeo Christians.

But to other people Im looked at as a bible thumpin small minded dinosaur bigot.

and to others still I am sometimes viewed as sorta Christ Like.

and to others Im the village idiot.

gets hard to define what is real in such a personal pursuit.

[Steven]

Um... being pushy about thier faith is a core Christian value. They are sopposed to convert or at least try to convert everyone they encounter.

like I constantly do to you all in here?

edit adder: ok question then, how do we and at what point do we draw the line in terms of our judgment on these actions?

For example Mark mentioned that a core christian value is being pushy about their faith.

I personally would argue against that value saying no - thats a core asshole value, not a core "Christian" value.

and in response half a dozen of you would give me your personal epic tales of whoa about some ridiculous and rude behaviour committed against you in the name of Christ.

and I would not dispute those experiences and would probably agree that you had been disrespected.

and then I would cite the Biblical example of Christ himself when he told his disciples that after witnessing to the individual towns or tribes, if they were not received (ie their emssage) they were to "shake the dust off their feet" outside the city gates and mvoe along to the next town. Meaning say your thing and be done - dont harrass anyone.

and then I would say YES that "preaching the good news and making disciples of all nations" is a biblical tenant - but being a dickhead is not.

and then we'd be left to choose - which example is REAL Christianity?

the mass example of misbehaved and self edifying modern era failures who have turned you off?

or a 33 year old man with a knack for table making and miracles?

who be the real Mc Coy?

[torn asunder]

That is absolutely correct... the same is true for Muslims....

the same is true for most monotheistic religions..

[torn asunder]

and then I would cite the Biblical example of Christ himself when he told his disciples that after witnessing to the individual towns or tribes, if they were not received (ie their emssage) they were to "shake the dust off their feet" outside the city gates and mvoe along to the next town. Meaning say your thing and be done - dont harrass anyone.

and then I would say YES that "preaching the good news and making disciples of all nations" is a biblical tenant - but being a dickhead is not.

great point - unfortunately, it seems that this particular message has been lost on most people who follow this religion.

[phee]

great point - unfortunately, it seems that this particular message has been lost on most people who follow this religion.

Indeed...

[phee]

the same is true for most monotheistic religions..

Yes... with the exception of Judaism

[torn asunder]

Yes... with the exception of Judaism

i wasn't aware - interesting. how do they get people to convert then? or do they care if people do?

(apologies for going o/t - phee, if you want, pm me about this, if you know anything. or anyone else, if they do!)

[Steven]

great point - unfortunately, it seems that this particular message has been lost on most people who follow this religion.

so then what do we do with the opposing perspectives based on core values?

how do we use those differences to find some form of truth?

you have one (understandable) school of thought who use the cumulative process of citing negative experiences.....if X equals X equals X equals X 98.9 percent of the time then X is "truth"....or in this case...."real".

then you have the "other" school of thought: a study on the central model of the man (Yeshuah the Christ) himself in how he did his thing.......as a foundational approach to deciding that this is what really equals truth.

what do we do with that other minor percentile?

do we disregard?

is it worth a 2nd (or first??) look?

an interesting scripture to ponder where Jesus himself is teaching and he talks about that which is fake and futile in terms of Godliness or righteousness in Matthew 7:21-23....

"21 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will go into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the pleasure of my Father in heaven. 22 A great number will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, were we not prophets in your name, and did we not by your name send out evil spirits, and by your name do works of power? 23 And then will I say to them, I never knew you: go from me, you workers of evil.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The Muslims have a different edict that is spelled out in plane language... Convert, Subjugate or Kill.

[torn asunder]

The Muslims have a different edict that is spelled out in plane language... Convert, Subjugate or Kill.

point taken - we covered this in another thread before right? i can't remember which one...

[phee]

i wasn't aware - interesting. how do they get people to convert then? or do they care if people do?

(apologies for going o/t - phee, if you want, pm me about this, if you know anything. or anyone else, if they do!)

Judaism is not a "Missionary Religion" They do not have any goal to make the rest of the earth Jewish, much like Hindus don't really care to convert others to Hinduism.

Judaism runs through family and by marraige (specifically the womans side of the family).

They believe in essance that they are the "choosen ones" they don't really want to make other people "choosen"... it is not a necessary part of "salvation"

My knowledge though is limited... I know that one of the Jewish DGN members will have more details.

[phee]

The Muslims have a different edict that is spelled out in plane language... Convert, Subjugate or Kill.

This is also correct