Ancient Rome Vs Usa

[phee]

The ancient romans were nothing but a bunch of muderers, thugs and gangsters like the nazies. They liked to beat people up and intimidate them and they didn't expect to live long. That is why caesar said "seize the day" no one expected to have any future. They had completely no scruples and murdered rivals and faimly members and who ever got in their way.

And yet they created art, technology, healthcare, public education, systems of government, legal systems, literature, etc... And actually were one of the most tollerant political institutions of the times (by ancient standards) Could hardly call them nothing but a bunch of thugs, gangsters and murderers...kind of a gross generalization IMO. I can't characterize an entire civilization that lasted hundreds and hundreds of years in such simple terms.

[phee]

To add... just like any civilization, it had it's good points and bad points.... it's good people and bad....

[Steven]

And yet they created art, technology, healthcare, public education, systems of government, legal systems, literature, etc... And actually were one of the most tollerant political institutions of the times (by ancient standards) Could hardly call them nothing but a bunch of thugs, gangsters and murderers...kind of a gross generalization IMO. I can't characterize an entire civilization that lasted hundreds and hundreds of years in such simple terms.

ahhh......but crucifixion itself.....that too is an important symbol of Roman technology, legality, and government authority.

and her point in general dealt with a very understandable resentment and resitance to Roman authorities who had Imperialistically taken over and defiled a Holy Country under YHWH.

I think her insight is valuable.

I think you missed her true point in explaining the turn the other cheek ideal....

[phee]

ahhh......but crucifixion itself.....that too is an important symbol of Roman technology, legality, and government authority.

and her point in general dealt with a very understandable resentment and resitance to Roman authorities who had Imperialistically taken over and defiled a Holy Country under YHWH.

I think her insight is valuable.

I think you missed her true point in explaining the turn the other cheek ideal....

Of course we invented Nuclear bombs... so is that not an important symbol of technology, legality, and government authority or our society? Is it worse then crucifixion? (And for the record the Romans did not invent crucifixion).

And back to the point... I did not miss her idea... I was addressing one portion of the statement... I am going to re-read the other parts and see if I have anything to add.

[Steven]

Of course we invented Nuclear bombs... so is that not an important symbol of Roman technology, legality, and government authority or our society? Is it worse then crucifixion? (And for the record the Romans did not invent crucifixion).

And back to the point... I did not miss her idea... I was addressing one portion of the statement... I am going to re-read the other parts and see if I have anything to add.

No but the Romans (and I didint say they did invent it) had a way of making an impression by leaving the crucified victim up for public consumption for the eyes to see......to me its sort of like chopping the hand off of a theif in the middle east.....the Crucifix was an undeniable symbolf of Roman ABSOLUTE authority that was intended to produce fear and dread.

Roman rule was blatantly founded in dread. Even you rpeace sign - that's nero's Cross is it not? Its an inverted cross with broken arms symbolising the breaking of Christianity - its not a peace sign - its a sign of fear.

What else was Rome famous for?

Gluttony of power.

Celebrated Gluttony in general - eat, fuck, puke. Do it again. Hand me that leg of lamb, and your kingdom, and your daughter, and your wife, and your farm, and then pay homage with your taxes.

speaking of fucking - the Romans had little child sex slaves, boys most of the time.

VD up the ass. little boys being fucked, up the ass.

Lead Pipe poisoning and madness.

internal overthrows and bloodletting among family members for power

Yes we had the atom bomb. But were nto talking about America - were talking about Rome.

do you think any of what I just described would prove to be offensive in the eyes of a devout jew?

[phee]

No but the Romans (and I didint say they did invent it) had a way of making an impression by leaving the crucified victim up for public consumption for the eyes to see......to me its sort of like chopping the hand off of a theif in the middle east.....the Crucifix was an undeniable symbolf of Roman ABSOLUTE authority that was intended to produce fear and dread.

Roman rule was blatantly founded in dread. Even you rpeace sign - that's nero's Cross is it not? Its an inverted cross with broken arms symbolising the breaking of Christianity - its not a peace sign - its a sign of fear.

What else was Rome famous for?

Gluttony of power.

Celebrated Gluttony in general - eat, fuck, puke. Do it again. Hand me that leg of lamb, and your kingdom, and your daughter, and your wife, and your farm, and then pay homage with your taxes.

speaking of fucking - the Romans had little child sex slaves, boys most of the time.

VD up the ass. little boys being fucked, up the ass.

Lead Pipe poisoning and madness.

internal overthrows and bloodletting among family members for power

Yes we had the atom bomb. But were nto talking about America - were talking about Rome.

do you think any of what I just described would prove to be offensive in the eyes of a devout jew?

That sounds a lot like our government in fact. At least certain people in it... And we use violence in just as an authoritative way....

(I am going to start a new thread)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't remember ever reading about even one US president that killed off all his children and grand children to keep them from taking his power. Promotion by Murder was an accepted way of life.

Secret meetings of any type in Rome were cause to have you killed. Religious tolerance was right out the door too... ask the 7000 worshipers of Bacchus that the senate had put to death.

[phee]

I don't remember ever reading about even one US president that killed off all his children and grand children to keep them from taking his power. Promotion by Murder was an accepted way of life.

Secret meetings of any type in Rome were cause to have you killed. Religious tolerance was right out the door too... ask the 7000 worshipers of Bacchus that the senate had put to death.

Religious persecution is a big part of U.S. history (witch trials and such) The U.S. was also much harder on it's slaves then ancient Rome, in comaprison to the amount of Bacchus, the amount of people who died for U.S. slavery is very high. Promotion by murder is something that is still practiced today (Think about all of the murders in Iraq that George W. used by sending the military over to get himself re-elected... which is in my opinion far worse then killing another politician, because Bush had innocent people and our own soldiers killed for political gain).

And we are a fairly new country in the grand scheme of things.... and look what we have done already...

[Steven]

Just as authoratative?

Dude - we have the PR machine working overtime all the time - we bust our asses makign sure we LOOK right, and just.

The Roman empire had just one message: We are Rome. and you shall bow.

and you havent even commented on my new bad ass avatar you closet Roman.

[phee]

Just as authoratative?

Dude - we have the PR machine working overtime all the time - we bust our asses makign sure we LOOK right, and just.

The Roman empire had just one message: We are Rome. and you shall bow.

and you havent even commented on my new bad ass avatar you closet Roman.

Can't see it the av yet...

and a lot of people in the world would say that is exactly how we come accross.

[Steven]

look up.

thats Ollie the wonder pooch as my new avatar.

and alot of people still look to America as the place of liberty, freedom and dreams.

[freydis]

look up.

thats Ollie the wonder pooch as my new avatar.

......not yet.

[phee]

look up.

thats Ollie the wonder pooch as my new avatar.

and alot of people still look to America as the place of liberty, freedom and dreams.

That is true.... and partially my point.... one cannot declare a whole civilization in broad terms.... I like this country.... but I akowledge that others also have valid points of view...

(I will probably have to delete cookies to see the av)

[Steven]

He's a roman shepard.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Um, 20 people died in the Witch trials. 20. None of them were burnt at the stake. The USA has nothing on Rome when it comes to religious persecution.

Slavery? both Rome and the US had roughly 40% of their population as slaves. Rome had a far higher population. Rome also kept slaves through it's whole 1000 year history. The US had slaves for only a fraction of that time. The US never invaded and enslaved a whole country either... Rome did it a few times.

Rome lost more soldiers in the opening moments of battles it won than we have lost in the whole Iraq war.

Rome was brutal in the extreme. They really added nothing to culture... name a famous roman playwrite? They outlawed most Greek science.

[freydis]

... name a famous roman playwrite?

Seneca

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Was not a playwrite... he was a Stoic philosopher.

[freydis]

Was not a playwrite... he was a Stoic philosopher.

....AND a playwright. Look it up.

[phee]

Seneca was a playwrite also

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

There is no proof his dialoges were ever performed as plays until the middle ages. They were meant, according to most scholars, to be read aloud but not acted out. They were also not written to entertain, they were written to teach.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Also, most of his works are rewrites of Greek tragedies.

[freydis]

No..... there's Seneca the Elder and Seneca the Younger. Seneca the Younger was a stoic philosopher and playwright, Seneca the Elder was the rhetorician.

also.... scholars are divided on what you've mentioned. There's really no proof either way whether the works were performed or only for recitation.

[Kit Kat P]

I like avatar Steven, who's dog is it?

[Steven]

I like avatar Steven, who's dog is it?

thats my dog Oliver....the puppy that I had set up a thread for months ago called "Name That Pooch"

Ollie is his name and Doo Doo (and mayhem) is his game.

[freydis]

Our workstations suck..... i emptied the cache and deleted cookies, and i still dont see any doggie. :(