Global Tempature

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I just wanted to point out and I'm not sure if I'm right so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all global cooling periods preceded by global warming and melting ice caps? I thought they were. I also thought they got increasingly worse until Ice Ages hit. Maybe I'm wrong here......

I always assumed the whole topic was more of a scare tactic to get people to approve of spending budgets that Congress can't justify so they can pocket our cash, rather than warn us about the real dangers coming.....

I don't know. Maybe that's just me thinking the government would try hiding obvious facts about climate and weather patterns to somehow benefit them knowing that people watch television a hell of a lot more than they read........

Either way, I have a sneaking suspicion that one of you knows the facts about climate patterns. Perhaps you can even send us a link, since we are a more educated community......

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Oh looky looky

Related climate issues

    Main articles: Ocean acidification, global dimming, and ozone depletion

A variety of issues are often raised in relation to global warming. One is ocean acidification. Increased atmospheric CO2 increases the amount of CO2 dissolved in the oceans.[109] CO2 dissolved in the ocean reacts with water to form carbonic acid, resulting in acidification. Ocean surface pH is estimated to have decreased from 8.25 near the beginning of the industrial era to 8.14 by 2004,[110] and is projected to decrease by a further 0.14 to 0.5 units by 2100 as the ocean absorbs more CO2.[1][111] Since organisms and ecosystems are adapted to a narrow range of pH, this raises extinction concerns, directly driven by increased atmospheric CO2, that could disrupt food webs and impact human societies that depend on marine ecosystem services.[112]

Global dimming, the gradual reduction in the amount of global direct irradiance at the Earth's surface, may have partially mitigated global warming in the late twentieth century. From 1960 to 1990 human-caused aerosols likely precipitated this effect. Scientists have stated with 66–90% confidence that the effects of human-caused aerosols, along with volcanic activity, have offset some of the global warming, and that greenhouse gases would have resulted in more warming than observed if not for these dimming agents.[1]

Ozone depletion, the steady decline in the total amount of ozone in Earth's stratosphere, is frequently cited in relation to global warming. Although there are areas of linkage, the relationship between the two is not strong.

Well, I don't really know what to say now. I mean I've always assumed that we were only United in our States of mind as someone else would say. Perhaps, we're just all going to die because we're more concerned about antics than facts......

Who knows......

Happy reading.

Though this was shamelessly copied from Wikipedia I think it poses a very valid point. Most Americans are just as dumb as I stereotype them to be. They won't bother gathering facts. We will all die as a result of this one day. Maybe not for this reason, but there are plenty of other ways we can get destroyed in this world from lack of knowledge, and ignorance.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It originally (as in billions of years ago) came only from the stars if we want to even phrase it that way as it can get confusing as to what constitutes what on that large of a timescale. But the earth generates a lot of its own energy nowadays. , geo-thermal, atmospheric, biological, etc. The earth needs the sun somewhere in the chain for such things to exist as they do on earth, but the energy does not all directly come from the sun as such. Unless we want to play games with the words and say "because the sun needs to be there for the earth to be there for the water to be there..". Even if we granted that, the sun isn't the sole source of weather patterns nor energy and on a shorter timescale (on the order of centuries) the sun is fairly constant. "The stars" are even more remote a source, and only really relevant on a universal timescale unless we have a supernova somewhere pretty close to home or some such.

The ice ages as referenced above weren't "caused" by the sun and they were global-esqe in nature the same way as "global warming". Its not far fetched to think that the sun is responsible for global warming from a first-glance standpoint, but its a lot more complicated than just "its the sun" the suns geostatic equilibrium and a million other factors causes it to be very stable (generally) over long time periods. The sun is a factor to be taken into account, but by no means the only factor. The truth i don't think is so simple, it could be, but I'd hesitate to rush to final judgment on something so exceedingly complex as global , historic weather.

That goes against everything I have ever read in physics and natural science. Take away the Sun and this planet is a ice ball within a week. There is not one bit of energy on this Planet that was created here. It all cme fromt he Sun.

Wait, Nuclear power plants. That energy was created here. Everythign else is stored energy from the Sun. Except that tiny bit we get from the stars.

and um. The leading theory for the cause of the Ice ages... is the Sun. and all the runners up have something to do with the Sun.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

And you're pretty sure this has nothing at all to do with the Sun melting polar ice caps and effecting jetstreams? That's interesting......

Can you please elaborate a little more or provide a link for the rest of us?

This could actually mean a couple of things oddly enough.

a) the reason people believed in the Sun so much as a Godhead at one time, is because like you they attributed most of the energy in the world to it.

and

b) artist appreciation has always been shit. even when God is the designer.....

On that note. Where do mass and the speed of light come from? Did we make it? Did the sun make it? I need a link to this too bro. Because I don't know anything at all about energy, the universe, and I really don't know anymore about God than what he tells me.

Perhaps you can fill me in there too bro.

I do need links though.

I just can't really accept much as truth at all anymore. I think too many people lie. I'm not saying you, but I"m saying that it wouldn't be hard to believe you were lied to.

Were these men of science that wrote these books? I used to love science. Until I realized that most of the theories were bullshit.

It's cool though. I like hearing what other people have to say regardless. I'm not a total douche and would really appreciate some insight.

[phee]

That goes against everything I have ever read in physics and natural science. Take away the Sun and this planet is a ice ball within a week. There is not one bit of energy on this Planet that was created here. It all cme fromt he Sun.

Wait, Nuclear power plants. That energy was created here. Everythign else is stored energy from the Sun. Except that tiny bit we get from the stars.

and um. The leading theory for the cause of the Ice ages... is the Sun. and all the runners up have something to do with the Sun.

The planet (including all of it's natural energy/geothermic/etc...) all goes back to the sun.... I have to agree

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

In the simplest terms.

We have no idea what gives anything mass. On the smallest level of quantum physics that we have been able to "observe" we cant find anything that gives the particles mass. We hope that when we get the super sized particle accelerator on-line later this year... we will be able to isolate the "God particle" that gives everything mass.

As for the Ice caps, I am pretty damn sure that the only reason we have ice caps is that the Poles bget less direct sunlight than the Equator. So, less Energy.

The natural state of matter is Rest. 0 energy. Absolute 0. Not even the Atoms are moving.

How the Sun works

[Head Wreck]

with gaf on this again

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

So the only thing we're lacking to become gods ourselves is the God Particle and the and the unassisted Frankenstein Cell that magically comes to life when certain conditions exist then?

Is there anything we can't do yet? I mean really. That would def solve the God crisis.

I mean once that guy is no longer needed, we're kind of good to go until the Sun dies or we escape right?

[phee]

So the only thing we're lacking to become gods ourselves is the God Particle and the and the unassisted Frankenstein Cell that magically comes to life when certain conditions exist then?

For that kind of talk please refer to this thread, thanks

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

1) It doesn't really apply there...

2) I think you have all the bases covered. I'm not one for trying to top people, and I don't think I could if I tried. You got it bro.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I might however add to it, because I thought that movie was amazing when it came out. It kinda gave me a real opportunity to express how I felt about things to people who were otherwise confused before the movie came out.

I kinda got the "oh I finally got it, but that's kinda psycho talk", but at the very least it was one of the few times in life where I didn't feel completely alone. Like maybe someone else in this world (besides some creepy isolatory industrial artist that somehow manages to cover "reality media" better than anyone as it happens) uses their head.

I don't know...

If we start cashing reality checks, I think the world just might go broke....... That kinda ends money problems though.

I'd really like to stay on the Climate topic though for now. I'm curious for answers, and as usual impressed with the feedback topics like this get.

Wouldn't it be nice if that kind of feedback could be utilized somehow to formulate a collaborative opinion? I mean that's the basis of democracy right? Hmmm..... Might be time for another thread.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So the only thing we're lacking to become gods ourselves is the God Particle and the and the unassisted Frankenstein Cell that magically comes to life when certain conditions exist then?

Is there anything we can't do yet? I mean really. That would def solve the God crisis.

I mean once that guy is no longer needed, we're kind of good to go until the Sun dies or we escape right?

Um, no. "God Particle" does not mean God, as in Jehovah. It's just the nick name given to the unknown quantum that gives everything mass. God is used because, well... what ever this quantum is, without it, nothing solid would exist... gravity would not exist... and without gravity the unverse would not exist. At least not in any state that we would recognize.

[nilhil_glory]

back to the initial topic

is this good enough reason to make my huskie pump out babies for sled dog usage..?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Not yet.

[ttogreh]

Ok, the sun is the over-arching contributor of energy to this globe. If the sun lowers its radiation output in any statistically measurable way, the earth gets cooler. That's a fact. That being said, nuclear materials, and geothermal energy... could not exist without the sun and other stars, but now that they are here, can produce energy irrespective of the sun.

Wind is solar energy, so is wave power, hydroelectric dam power, coal power, oil power, natural gas power...

Depending on where you draw the line, geothermal and nuclear energy... is kind of not solar energy.

Any ways, whether in the next two centuries the average global temperature remains the same, lowers, or goes up, is irrelevant to the fact that carbon-based energy is dirty, finite, and politically controversial. It makes sense to get away from the carbon economy and invest in renewable and sustainable energy and land management projects.

Global climate change is irrelevant to the need to eliminate our dependence on foreign energy.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

right... because when we are killing each other for things to burn... just to keep alive... allt hat is going to matter.

All our technology doesn't mean crap if we cant grow enough food to sustain us. Unlike global warming... global cooling starts to kill us off rather fast... without any major sweeping changes to the planet.

Read up on the mini ice age. Or "The Year without a summer"

[phee]

right... because when we are killing each other for things to burn... just to keep alive... allt hat is going to matter.

All our technology doesn't mean crap if we cant grow enough food to sustain us. Unlike global warming... global cooling starts to kill us off rather fast... without any major sweeping changes to the planet.

Read up on the mini ice age. Or "The Year without a summer"

If I remember that was caused by a volcano blocking the usual sunlight from getting through the atmosphere

[ttogreh]

Indeed, eighteen hundred and froze to death was a very frightening time to be alive. Many people believe it hastened the French revolution, which may or may not be true.

In any event, a global cooling epoch would not be as sudden as the explosion of a volcano. It would take several years before we even noticed the decline in solar radiation. Moreover, we have the technology to grow enough food for everyone completely independent of land. The equatorial region will receive pretty much the same amount of solar radiation now as in a global cooling epoch. All those coastal waters would be excellent places to start growing algae and other non-traditional ocean crops.

Still, billions could die if we don't start developing these technologies now. It's simple, and undeniable. Renewable energy and sustainable land management technologies are a good idea, no matter what the future holds.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

there are a few theory's that have been bandied about... but modern research has it pinned downed to two major causes...

Decreased solar activity and increased volcanic activity. the Tambora blew it's top and we lost summer for a year.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You still need sun light to grow crops. There just are not enough plants that like artificial light to feed the masses.

global cooling epoch would not be as sudden as the explosion of a volcano

you know something that climatologists dont?

It would take several years before we even noticed the decline in solar radiation.

We have already beren ignoring it for a few years.

[ttogreh]

The equatorial region will receive about the same amount of sunlight during a global cooling epoch as it would now.

Do you have a graphic, perhaps, showing the mean solar radiation levels of the past... oh, fifty years?

[jadnifer]

You think you have seen tornadoes and hurricanes? You thought Global warming was fucking up the weather? Just give it some time... Global Cooling causes the most unstable weather systems... it causes the biggest storms... Katrina was nothing compared to what cooling is bringing.

I thought that an average of the Earth's temperature going UP about 3 degrees Celsius would cause horrible weather such as really bad tornadoes and hurricanes. I was watching a program called Six Degrees where they were talking about this and they said that the air temperature mixing with the cooler water because of the melting ice caps would cause the weather? Is this some new information that they found out, or another theory?

I am confused I hear that we are in danger of really bad global warming, now I hear that we are in danger of really bad global cooling. Which one are we most in danger of?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Join the club.

In the 1970's Global cooling and the coming ice age was accepted science. Accepted enough to be taught in schools. It was in out science text books. it was there, because there was enough evidence to warrant mention of it.

Then in the late 90's a couple of Canadians started throwing fits about Global Warming and then Al Gore made that damn sensational movie based on half truths and flat out lies.

People started dumping shit loads of research money into Global weather science. Those Canadians that originally started beating the drum... they all have quietly started saying things like "oops" "misinterpreted data" and other words you will never see in major news papers. Real data is coming back from studys... and it's all supporting the idea that the world is cooling due to decreased Solar activity.

I tend to follow the science. Which is leading to Global cooling.

Which one is true, I honestly don't know. Far more science backs cooling.

I really wish it was warming. If the world warms up, life on Earth will adapt. If it cools, most life will die and whats left will adapt.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

No, but I have a 400 year graph.

[ttogreh]

Ok, it does look like there is a trend for a decrease in solar radiation. That being said, In the 1970s, we were dumping unprecedented amounts of sky-darkening pollutants into the sky. You don't hear about acid rain, anymore, because we got rid of the acid rain creating pollutants in the air.

I don't know if we are the major cause of global climate change, but I can tell you, we contribute to it.

Investments in alternative energies and sustainable land practices... simply cannot hurt. Maybe they won't help, but they CAN'T HURT.